How competitive is AFRTOC really?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by AFMaj.son, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. AFMaj.son

    AFMaj.son Member

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    On the AFROTC web-site it says that the minimum SAT Math and Writing 1100. How competitive are these scholarships really?
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Really Competitive, that minimum SAT score will not get an applicant very far these days.
     
  3. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Agreed. It certainly won't get them into any ROTC program. I've seen SAT scores over 1300 CR+M that did not get scholarships although I expect some that have come in a bit lower have gotten a scholarship. It's a whole person score thing and each facet is very competitive.
     
  4. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Their averages for type 1, 2 and 7 are posted on their website showing the previous year. To be competitive you better not be much below that average, preferably above. I don't think the minimums will get you a scholarship in ant ROTC program today.
     
  5. CristalLee

    CristalLee Member

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    Packer - anyway you could post that link?

    Thanks!
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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  7. BlahuKahuna

    BlahuKahuna Member

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    The minimum score will allow you to become qualified to actually complete the scholarship application and move onto the interview stage. You've seen the average scores for recepients-and those aren't necessarily enough to get a scholarship.

    Just like service academies, there are great kids every year with 700+ SAT scores who get turned down for a million different reasons. There are people on this forum with higher scores than I had that were turned down for scholarships. I would encourage you to rethink your attitude before your scholarship interviews. Nothing wrong with staying humble. :smile:
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    AFMaj.son,

    As others have stated it is insanely competitive. LY AFROTC board (current C100's) had over 5000K applicants and only 911 scholarships.

    Type 1 is 5% of those awarded; @45 kids across the nation received a Type 1 scholarship. Only 5% of those 45 were non-tech majors. In other words, 2 nationally from the 5K pool.

    ~~~ That should tell you from both tech and non-tech, how competitive.

    Type 2 is @15% of those awarded; 135 kids, and for non-tech it avgs around 15-20% of those kids. 25 nationally on a good day as a non-tech

    Type 7 is the remaining %, and 75% of those go tech.

    A couple of things to remember.
    ~ Scholarships are national, not like the AFA which is geo-centric (NOMs).
    ~ There is a limited pot of money, and when it is gone it is gone. Later boards risk the chance of the pot being close to empty. Many AFA candidates will apply for AFROTC as plan B, and since the mass mailing is Mar/April, they tend to hold onto them until they find out. They could get a scholarship from the 1st board, and even at the 4th board AFROTC is going to assume that money is gone.
    ~ SAT/ACT are best sitting. No superscore. They will convert the ACT to their SAT system, and like an SA they will take the better score. They will not mix and match SAT M and ACT CR.
    ~ School selection does not matter, intended major does. If 1 college has 100% of cadets on scholarship, and another has 0%, AFROTC HQ doesn't care. They care that they meet the target of AFROTC regarding Tech and non-tech majors.

    As others have stated it is a WCS system. You can score a perfect 800 on each section and carry a 4.0 uwgpa with 9 APs, but if you have a low PFA or no ECs you just took a hit on the other 40% of the WCS.

    Additionally, as a cadet the SAT/ACT score matters because, scholarship or no scholarship for SFT/EA selection as a C200, they award a % for that board based on your SAT/ACT score. As a scholarship recipient if not selected for SFT they can dis-enroll the cadet from AFROTC. If the cadet can only afford to attend that college on scholarship, they risk not only the loss of commissioning, but also college too!

    The only 100% guarantee anyone can give you is you have 0% chance if you don't apply for the scholarship.

    My 0.017545 cents advice is:
    1. Take both SAT and ACT
    ~~~ From there find which test you are weaker in, and which subject too! Study, study, study the weaker subject. The stronger subject will remain stronger, but by raising the weaker subject your best sitting score should rise.

    2. Practice that PFA.
    ~~~ Pull ups traditionally are the killer. Practice in all types of weather, if it is raining run. If it is 95 degrees outside, do the whole test outside. The harder you train, the better you will do. Yes, it is a small %, but every point counts.

    3. EC's end as a JR in HS.
    ~~~ This is also why you see AFROTC candidates submit early, what you do as a SR in HS is not a player in the equation.

    4. DoDMERB
    ~~~ If you know of any medical issue that has been an issue in your life, get in front of that NOW! Get the paperwork in order.
    ~ Yrs ago the exam was done earlier, now due to cost saving directives, it is done later, a DQ, remedial or waiver can take months.
    ~ WAIVERS are becoming a rarity compared to even 2 yrs ago.

    5. ALO
    ~~~ Visit your GC at HS. They usually know who the AF ALO is for the HS. Contact them for guidance.
    ~ Understand they handle both AFA and AFROTC candidates, this will allow you to find out where your weaknesses are in your packet compared to the candidates in your geo-centric area.

    6. Visit the colleges and the DET!
    ~~~ Colleges have a personality, but so does the det. You may love their website, but until you step foot on the campus and talk to the det., you will never know if you love the school or the det.
    ~ Make an apptmt with the det when you intend to visit the college. Ask to meet the CC and some cadets.
    ~~ It will place a name with a face, and some colleges actually talk to ROTC regarding admissions.
    ~~ It will allow you to meet some of your peers.
    ~~~ Parents do not stick around for this, instead, excuse yourself and meet up later at a pre-determined spot on campus.
    ~~~~ This will allow your child to experience college for a few short minutes like a kid at that college next yr. College kids won't see him/her as a SR in HS., they will see him like another college kid. JMPO, but when the folks are around they do the "dog and pony" show. You too as parents will be able to walk around for an hr or two and get accustomed/dream of what life will be like next yr.

    Best of luck.
    ABOVE ALL...AIM HIGH!
     
  9. Packer

    Packer Member

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  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    My pleasure. I wanted to find it myself once you had mentioned it. :wink:
     
  11. Packer

    Packer Member

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    No pullups in the PFA.
    PFA/PFT is push-ups, crunches and 1.5 mile run. Practice and do well on all three events.
     
  12. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Due to the fact that my interviewer was an ex-military civilian volunteer who had an erratic schedule(ended up having it over the phone for about an hour and 20 min on Jan. 25 early in the morning) and the fact that I knew nothing about the selection boards or dates until I found this website in late February, my scholarship packet only met with the third board (Late Feb or early March). I was notified that I had received an AFROTC scholarship March 15. It was a type 7(i'm thrilled cause it means i'll have a full ride to my dream school:thumb:), but that could be because my 1st choice school was an instate school and not necessarily because I met with a late board.

    So it is not impossible and really not highly unlikely to recieve a scholarship if you're packet doesn't make the 1st or 2nd board. There are many people who have had everything completed since June or September who are still waiting or have been given a flat out no. I definitely would have finished everything super early if I had known that the first board was in December, but I'd like to think that the timing was fate and everything happens for a reason:wink:
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    My bad confused it with CFA.

    As Packer stated you need to do well in all 3, you will never find the mins for the test, it is one thing the AF guards as if it was the combination lock to Ft Knox. They will post the mins., just like they post the mins for academics.

    You do not want to be close to the mins.

    Use this time and work out. One PFA issue to consider is that the person submitting the scores may be sticklers to form and it is important to do the test properly.

    Even if they aren't sticklers, once you get to the AFROTC unit with the scholarship, you cannot contract until you pass the test. AFROTC will be sticklers. Do not stop training just because you got the scholarship.

    PT in AFROTC is usually at 6 a.m., rain or shine, 30 degrees or 96 degrees. You will take it every semester.

    DS will commission in May, scholarship with a UPT slot. Every school break when he is at home, he will work out, not at the gym, just the test. He will run at 6 a.m., he will run at 3 p.m. (heat), he will run a longer distance(3-5 miles), but maintain that minute/mile time period required for the test, and do every part of the entire test with the rest times.

    Just like the SAT/ACT for the FT/EA board, the PF has a % for that board too.

    Selected for FT at Maxwell, you will do PT, and that is not part of your ranking out of Maxwell. That ranking will be part of your OML career field (AFSC).

    I hope you can see, every step you take now as a candidate will impact the next step in your life as an AFROTC cadet, and that will affect your life as an AF officer, which will be an issue for promotions in the AD world, so on and so forth.

    It doesn't end with the "Congrats" letter as an 18 yo, it will be a part of your life until you are at least 26 (4 yrs ADAF commitment) and maybe after that!

    I am not trying to scare anyone, I am trying to illustrate this is a marathon, the scholarship is just a sprint.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non Ducor Duco,

    I am not and will not disagree that scholarships still come down in Mar/April, however, this candidate is in HS right now, they found this site as a jr. and 8 months before the 1st board will meet.

    The thing for AFROTC only candidates to realize is that 99% of AFA candidates will apply AFROTC as plan B, but very few AFROTC candidates as plan A will apply to the AFA as plan B.

    ALO's will get their list of AFA candidates in the end of June or July, AFROTC only come later. These candidates are popping out their AFA applications, and portions of the application are duplicates, hence why many AFA candidates meet the boards earlier.

    My POV was/is competitive AFA candidates who meet the Dec. board, and are awarded a scholarship, but have no appointment, will take the scholarship and hold onto it, some may even hold onto it until I-day at the AFA.

    That $$$$ is in AFROTC terms, spent. That means their credit/debit list has impacted.

    Additionally, many candidates will be re-boarded because they are on a cusp, the later you submit/apply the fewer re-boards you can meet. It is a First In, First Boarded system. Again, the board will only look at what you submit at the end of your jr. yr.

    AFROTC is not like A/NROTC where the cost of the school (private, public, IS/OOS) matters regarding awarding the scholarship. Going IS was not why you got a scholarship.

    AFROTC allows Type 7 4 yr to convert to Type 2 3 yrs as a HS recipient. Your stats and intended major was the player from the WCS perspective. WCS above X and you get a scholarship, below and you don't.

    Be proud. Your stats/WCS for your intended major was above that line.

    Candidates that apply for multiple ROTC scholarships need to understand each branch is unique regarding how they determine scholarship recipients.

    Honestly, as insane as AFROTC is in this arena, NROTC is the epitome of being the hardest scholarship to get as a HS student. It is STEM, college, and than cost of the school. Talk about finding the needle in the hay stack!:eek:

    Congrats on your scholarship, but again more importantly congrats on your WCS, because the college wasn't a player.
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    "full ride" ?

    you mentioned "full ride". That normally means, in the athletic scholarship context, tuition, fees, books, room, board. I think you meant "full tuition + fees + books", right? No room and board?
     
  16. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Pima,

    I agree, NROTC scholarships are probably the hardest to get right now, especially MO NROTC scholarships though the others are still extremely competitive. Thank you, I am very proud, though I still see my life-w/out-a-scholarship flash before my eyes occasionally and I immediately close my eyes and thank God profusely:worship:. This has been an awful year (by that I mean school yr 2011-2012 plus a few months in the summer). Alot of deaths, divorces, disappointments and close calls have haunted us, as well as things from the past(my youngest sister was almost molested by a cousin my age a few yrs ago while I was sleeping in the next room and we've just started talking to them again. His "parents" were only worried about not being blamed. Just goes to show you have to watch everyone, even family.) I was in limbo this yr too having matured past my high school friends and had little in common with most of my college classmates. I was pretty depressed for a while, so I and, more importantly, my family really needed this good news. Making my family proud is one of the most important things to me. So I did not mean to insinuate that I thought I was unworthy and my school choice got me the scholarship, I just meant that the reason I recieved a type 7 as opposed to a type 2 might be because my first choice school was IS as opposed to OOS.

    Dunninla,

    Yes that is what I meant. I live 30 min away from my school so it wouldn't make sense paying to live on campus no matter how cool it might be. So I consider it a full ride since I have already scored free room and board at my parent's house:wink:. Unlike alot of kids I know, I genuinely love AND like my parents so I'm not trying to get away from them. Besides, I have a car now(a fully paid off car:thumb:) so I can get up and go if I feel myself going crazy:shake:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Don't be to quick to dismiss living on campus.

    Even being 30 min. from school can have it's challenges. Consider that you will have PT in the morning, usually around 6:00am and 3 days a week, sometimes more. Remember too that being there 15 min. early is "On Time" being there at 6:00am is "Late". When you figure in traffic and parking you will have to leave no later then 5:00am just to be on time, that means getting up at 4:30 in the morning for a 6:00am PT. You won't eat before PT so unless you plan to drive home, depending on when your first class starts you will be eating on campus.

    Classes can be scheduled at various times, sometimes they are not very convenient times either, getting back home for lunch will probably be an issue considering it's at least a 1 hour round trip drive, which means you will again be eating on campus.

    Don't discount the benefits of living on campus, you spoke about not having a good group to hang out with at school, these same people will be around you when you live at home. Living at school will allow you to be surrounded with people that are having the same experiences and challenges you are having. AFROTC will take up a lot of your extra time, being on campus will help you bond with your fellow cadets, add to that the EC opportunities living on campus would give you.

    Being involved with you Det. will be important. Living on campus will make it easier to be involved without having to commute back and forth to school. I'm not saying you have to live on campus to be involved or successful, it just makes it a bit easier. The 30 min. drive each way may seem short now but once you start school you may find that the 1 hour round trip will make things a bit more difficult.

    Just make sure you think hard about everything, talk to fellow cadets at the school and get some feedback from them.

    Congratulations on the scholarship.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I endorse and would add to jcleppe's comments.

    Consider the cost of gas each way on your commute. You'll be doing an hour drive each day 5 - 6 days per week. Not knowing what model of fully paid off car you drive, I'm guessing that means at least 15-18 gallons per week. At today's prices that means about $60-72 per week as a conservative estimate. It will end up being a minimum of $1000 or more per semester and doesn't include wear and tear on the car. Balance that against the cost of room and board on campus, which I know will be more than the gas but....

    I will also add something I told my own son. I could pay for his entire college bill after his merit scholarship, but I make him kick in money so he has some skin in the game. He doesn't make a lot over the summer (which he uses as spending money) so he has to borrow about $5K per year to cover his share. He's extremely worried about this, as he should be, but I tell him 2 things....

    1. You'll already have a job when you graduate from college

    2. You already have a fully paid for car (he does too) and won't need to get a new vehicle when he graduates which is the first thing most students do. Paying off $20K is comparable to paying off a new car loan. He should be out of debt in 4-5 years.

    I know. I'm heartless right? But having him live on campus saves me a significant amount on groceries which I can turn around and put into his education (not that there was a choice since he's 3.5 hours away).

    Living at home, while in school, so you can get an education is admirable and honorable. I know many who have done it and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. It might even be the right thing to do in your case. However, living on campus is a valuable experience in itself if you can find a way to afford it. As jcleppe said, just think hard about everything... and ask your parents for input too since they have a part to play in all this.

    Good luck and congratulations!!! :thumb:
     
  19. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    I understand and know that living on campus would be a great experience, I just don't think it would be worth taking out a loan for $6000 for one school year to have that experience. I am a very fiscally oriented so the cost of something previously attractive can turn me off. Sometimes even looking at my parents spend alot of money pains me, lol, we wen shopping at Khols for clothes a yr or two ago and by the time the bill hit $600 I told my mom I couldn't watch anymore and walked to a safe distance until it was time to haul it to the car. Another example, my dad as been asking me over and over again if I wanted a new car. He has had the opportunity to give cars to a few friends and family members so he feels that he should do twice as much for me. Says I shouldn't have to drive around in an old van. I appreciate it, but why have them go deeper into debt right after they just finished paying off some major bills? Everyone wouldn't mind having a new car, but the one I have is paid off, perfectly reliable, and has alot of room so I don't need or really WANT a new car. I feel the same way about living on campus. I just don't feel like I am willing to pay a price I don't have to pay you know?

    I already get up at 5 every morning just to get to campus with a modest amount of time before class and it is 45 min away. Although I've been doing that since 6th grade because I was told to even though these last few yrs I'd wait 2 hours after getting ready before it was time to leave. I'm sure it'll suck sometimes, but probably only a bit more than it sucks now. You're right, going home for lunch is out of the question, but I usually bring my lunch to school anyways. I only pay for lunch on special occasions or if I just didn't feel like doing it, but that's not that often. I'll definitely make a point to be involved in Det activities though.

    I have given it alot of thought and I know commuting won't be easy. But after weighing my options and considering my experience as a commuting student, I believe that this is the best course of action for me. Living on campus would be really cool and exciting, but I'll have plenty of time to dorm with strange new people later on in life:wink:

    Edit: Thank you very much for the congratulations and the advice also Kinnem! It's good to hear differing points of view. I did talk to my parents and they told me the pros and cons of living on campus but said it was my decision. I just....really like to hold onto my money lol. I'm pretty much a hoarder when it comes to food and money, its just who I am:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2012
  20. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Sounds like you've thought it trhough and come the the right conclusion for you. I really admire your willingness to do the commute and your thinking. I hope someday your in a high position and in charge of spending my tax dollars! Good Luck! :thumb:
     

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