HUGE Problem for CGA

[Luigi59]

If they really want more minorities they should leave their process the same (the process was a lot simpler and easier than West Point's in my opinion) and create a minority admissions department.....

Those initiatives have been put in place and are happening as we speak. The process is paying dividends as the incoming class this year was one of the most diverse.

It will take time to reach the levels that are desired - as you said, lack of information about the smallest branch of the military is not just a problem for minority recruiting - there are many non-minorities who have never heard of the USCGA.

I don't see the USCGA expanding the area of study/instruction beyond the areas already offered. They are mandated to provide a certain number of engineering and /technical graduates to the USCG, and adding a language major or history major would dilute those numbers.

Size is another factor - there just aren't as many recruiters, admissions officers, AAPs, alumni, or a budget to do many of the things needed.

Remember, the USCG is about the size of the NYC Police Department.

 

[Luigi59]

"We welcome the support of Congress as we continue working hard to increase the number of underrepresented minority cadets attending and graduating from the Academy. We must increase the number of African-American cadets to better represent the nation we serve."

"Even without nominations, members of Congress can recommend that their strongest candidates for nominations to the other four federal academies also apply to the Coast Guard Academy. We welcome those applicants, and in particular look forward to those applications from underrepresented minorities who might otherwise not know what an outstanding alternative we are."

RADM J Scott Burhoe, Superintendent

“I am extremely pleased that the ill-conceived proposal to institute Congressional nominations for the Coast Guard Academy was deleted from the final Coast Guard Authorization Bill today. The Academy’s internal effort to achieve diversity is a far better guarantee than a hit-or-miss process run by 535 members of the House and Senate. My vote against this move in 2009 was a lonely one, which makes today’s outcome particularly gratifying not just for me, but for our region, and the staff, faculty and cadets in New London as well.”

Rep. Joe Courtney (D-CT)

 

[TheKnight]

Fair enough.


We had a discussion in my office the other day about this, just casual.

I believe the Coast Guard has the same problem recruiting minorities that ice hockey does. Neither is "white only", so why the disparity?

You answer and then I'll tell you what I think.

Well, the most logical answer is probably that most people in general don't want to play ice hockey because most people simply aren't interested in that sort of thing.

If most people don't want to do it, then minorities (being minorities) will be less likely to do that as well.

Also, most people I know of don't really see the Coast Guard for what it is. Many people don't consider to be an equal to the other defense (by defense I mean those that defend our country) branches.

So if less people in general want to be in the Coast Guard, then minorities will be found less in the Coast Guard.

On the other hand,I think part if it is the job they do. I don't like cold weather, therefore I'm not going to play ice hockey because it consists of being in a cold environment.

I don't like rain, being in the rain, being out on the ocean for more than a few hours, or jumping into ocean waters to save people from death. The Coast Guard may be more than that, but when I think of it, that is my immediate perception of it.

Most people don't know about the opportunities offered by the Coast Guard (like the fact that there is a Coast Guard Academy) and thus they think about it and think water and (as a non-minority friend of mine once said) say to themselves "Isn't the Coast Guard basically the Navy but less cool?"

Ultimately it's the public perception (combined with general lack of information) of the Coast Guard that would be responsible for people not wanting to join.

Those initiatives have been put in place and are happening as we speak. The process is paying dividends as the incoming class this year was one of the most diverse.

It will take time to reach the levels that are desired - as you said, lack of information about the smallest branch of the military is not just a problem for minority recruiting - there are many non-minorities who have never heard of the USCGA.

That's understandable.

I don't see the USCGA expanding the area of study/instruction beyond the areas already offered. They are mandated to provide a certain number of engineering and /technical graduates to the USCG, and adding a language major or history major would dilute those numbers.

Size is another factor - there just aren't as many recruiters, admissions officers, AAPs, alumni, or a budget to do many of the things needed.

That's understandable.

Remember, the USCG is about the size of the NYC Police Department.

Maybe so, but I'm sure the NYPD probably has higher recruitment levels on all fronts.

 

[cga82]

TheKnight, I think that you have made very interesting and true points about CGA. I wonder if you have the same thoughts about Kings Point?
Did you have more or less info about KP? Is KP more military?-do they have more major options? Is KP more known than CGA? KP is about the same size as CGA and uses the nomination system to state quota.

 

[LineInTheSand]

My personal feelings on the issue....

Socio-economics.

The Coast Guard does a terrible job advertising. This is in large part because of the small budget for Coast Guard Recruiting Command (CGRC). How many Coast Guard commercials have you seen in the past...month? Week? Heck, lets even say year. I saw a grand total of TWO since "Born Ready" came out, and those were both in movie theaters.

Where do people often interact with the Coast Guard? Generally....on the water. And now, who is on the water? Who's friends are on the water? If the Coast Guard is going to board you, what do you need? A vessel.

I don't own a boat. I don't have the money for it. Before I joined the Coast Guard I didn't leave near the Coast Guard. I did however attend American Legion Boys' State, and was turned on to the Coast Guard by an Army apache pilot.

So, with the absence of commercials and "in your face" recruiting campaigns (which the Coast Guard doesn't need to do right now), how do you find out about the Coast Guard? First, being in an area the Coast Guard operates helps....like the coast. Who lives on the coast (besides most of the people in populated cities) and who goes out on the water? The well off.

Poverty levels are higher for minority populations. That problem becomes two fold, one, in lower socio-economic areas, people will not have access to the same information as people who are more well off. Second, private schools or access to a great education is not as available. So, if someone does have the information regarding the Coast Guard or Coast Guard Academy, but has not taken the classes needed to be competative or has not achieved high enough test scores to compete, they will not be in the best shape.

People know Army (Army Strong), Navy (A Global Force for Good), Marine Corps (The Few, the Proud), and the Air Force (some kind of space commercials now comparing AF to the future). Because people see those commercials, they have an idea that not only services exist, but that there may be college's associated with those services. Tanks for Army, Aircraft carriers for Navy, Marines for Marine Corps, and F-22s for Air Force. What about the Coast Guard? Who knows.

People didn't know Coast Guard (Jobs that matter) or Coast Guard (Shield of Freedom) and they don't know Coast Guard (Born Ready).

The other service academies lag in female numbers. Maybe Congress should drop congressional nominations all together. I found them to be....practice fro real interviews. It's another step in the application process, but it's not any harder. If you're competative enough to get into a service academy, there's a nomination out there, somewhere, for you. If you're not competative enough....there's still likely a nomination out there, somewhere, maybe not as easy to get, but still there.

How do you recruit minorities? Hit them early, plant that seed of service specific to your branch and continue that relationship and presence in the school system.

For the Coast Guard; if we don't do that, and we don't have a movie like The Guardian come out every year, we will have trouble in that area....



Hockey. Hockey is an expensive sport to play. In addition to the thousands of dollars of gear, you require a rink, a sheet of ice to play on. If your community doesn't have a facility that can cool the ice and keep it frozen all year, then you have to wait for it to freeze in the winter, and that will really only happen in an area where the temperatures get cold enough. Now, to play hockey, which is a team sport, you need to have more than one kid on the block, who not only wants to play hockey, but can afford to play hockey.

In America, do you find urban, lower socio-economic populations hanging around a rink, playing hockey? No. First, there's no rink, and second, there's no gear. They're playing basketball, a sport on a court that involves one ball and shoes. Is that hockey's fault? Is it because basketball is being marketed to this population? No. It's because it's readily available, just as information regarding the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force is.

Some communities have programs to provide ice time and equipment to underprivaledged kids, in a hope to foster a lover for the game. Washington does this, and they've seen some great results.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Most people don't know about the opportunities offered by the Coast Guard (like the fact that there is a Coast Guard Academy) and thus they think about it and think water and (as a non-minority friend of mine once said) say to themselves "Isn't the Coast Guard basically the Navy but less cool?"

Haha! Strange thing is, the past few Navy commercials I've seen highlight a number of missions, I typically think of as "Coast Guard". Haven't seen very many commercials with missile launches or F/A-18 strikes...

I have seen a number of commericals with the Navy talking about Katrina, humanitarian relief, anti-drug ops on LCSs, and rescue swimmers....

And of course who can forget about the Navy recruiting poster featuring a AMT looking out the door of an MH-60 at the destruction of Katrina....only to find out the photo was a Coast Guard photo of a Coast Guard AMT looking out the door of a Coast Guard MH-60 Jayhawk?

 

[dpt135]

Speaking of minorities and recruitment... I've heard(not necessarily positive) that USNA has been on a "diversity" push lately. However, I am candidate for USNA and recently decided to apply for KP since they are commissioned as Navy upon graduation. Within one day after applying to KP, I received an email from the diversity recruiting specialist offering any extra help with my application. This did not happen with the USNA. Maybe, they are slowing down diversity recruitment or maybe just doing that operation more covertly. Any thoughts? I've heard that KP is a well kept secret. Yet, like the knight, and the CC,I am struggling to find a major that interests me there. Seems much like a tech school, not meaning to offend anyone. Maybe someone can enlighten me on KP. Thanks for your time.

 

[cga82]

And Ya,

I'm sure the Navy took from the Merchant Marine. Those dog gone Pirates!

And all those Merchant Marine commercials.

How about the comparison of KP and CGA-I think Theknight has a good perspective.

 

[cga82]

dpt135,
I would talk to the folks over on that forum. KP is probably the best keep secret for a multitude of reasons. KP2001 is one of their excellent expert spokesman along with many other fine people. I would seriously consider it, the OPTIONS given there can not be matched.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I agree. My B&G officer from USNA turned me onto them. In the end I didn't chose KP, but it's a great school and it would have been a fine choice.

 

[Luigi59]

KP is about the same size as CGA and uses the nomination system to state quota.

Which further illustrates that nominations do not equal increased minority appointments.

Compare the Class of 2014 from each institution:

USMMA
12.5% women
14.9% minority

USCGA
29% women
17% minority

 

[cga82]

Now were cooking with grease.. How about the past Statistics?

Hum

 

[Luigi59]

Now were cooking with grease.. How about the past Statistics?

Hum

How about them?

They're probably not happy with such low numbers, but I'm sure USMMA has implemented recruitment programs to further their URM applicant pool, I'm sure that these issues are being addressed by KP's internal (and external) admissions staff, just as they are at USCGA.

The US Merchant Marine Academy has a harder time than any of the academies, as they are the least known of all. But clearly it is not a matter of nominations vs no nominations, as their minority numbers (using a nomination system) are lower than USCGA.

You should probably take your questions over to the KP section for KP-specific answers.

 

[TheKnight]

TheKnight, I think that you have made very interesting and true points about CGA. I wonder if you have the same thoughts about Kings Point?
Did you have more or less info about KP? Is KP more military?-do they have more major options? Is KP more known than CGA? KP is about the same size as CGA and uses the nomination system to state quota.

I actually had quite a bit of info about KP. I just didn't see the reason to go there. My desire to the military is job specific (Army MP).

Yes, I could commission in the Army from KP, but why do that when I can commission to the Army from West Point?

I would say that they're both equally unknown. If anything, KP is more obscure because there is no "Merchant Marine" branch of the military. So people often wonder "Well, where do they go when they graduate?"

Ultimately I just didn't see the point in going/applying to KP.

My personal feelings on the issue....

Socio-economics.

The Coast Guard does a terrible job advertising. This is in large part because of the small budget for Coast Guard Recruiting Command (CGRC). How many Coast Guard commercials have you seen in the past...month? Week? Heck, lets even say year. I saw a grand total of TWO since "Born Ready" came out, and those were both in movie theaters.

Where do people often interact with the Coast Guard? Generally....on the water. And now, who is on the water? Who's friends are on the water? If the Coast Guard is going to board you, what do you need? A vessel.

I don't own a boat. I don't have the money for it. Before I joined the Coast Guard I didn't leave near the Coast Guard. I did however attend American Legion Boys' State, and was turned on to the Coast Guard by an Army apache pilot.

So, with the absence of commercials and "in your face" recruiting campaigns (which the Coast Guard doesn't need to do right now), how do you find out about the Coast Guard? First, being in an area the Coast Guard operates helps....like the coast. Who lives on the coast (besides most of the people in populated cities) and who goes out on the water? The well off.

Poverty levels are higher for minority populations. That problem becomes two fold, one, in lower socio-economic areas, people will not have access to the same information as people who are more well off. Second, private schools or access to a great education is not as available. So, if someone does have the information regarding the Coast Guard or Coast Guard Academy, but has not taken the classes needed to be competative or has not achieved high enough test scores to compete, they will not be in the best shape.

People know Army (Army Strong), Navy (A Global Force for Good), Marine Corps (The Few, the Proud), and the Air Force (some kind of space commercials now comparing AF to the future). Because people see those commercials, they have an idea that not only services exist, but that there may be college's associated with those services. Tanks for Army, Aircraft carriers for Navy, Marines for Marine Corps, and F-22s for Air Force. What about the Coast Guard? Who knows.

People didn't know Coast Guard (Jobs that matter) or Coast Guard (Shield of Freedom) and they don't know Coast Guard (Born Ready).

The other service academies lag in female numbers. Maybe Congress should drop congressional nominations all together. I found them to be....practice fro real interviews. It's another step in the application process, but it's not any harder. If you're competative enough to get into a service academy, there's a nomination out there, somewhere, for you. If you're not competative enough....there's still likely a nomination out there, somewhere, maybe not as easy to get, but still there.

How do you recruit minorities? Hit them early, plant that seed of service specific to your branch and continue that relationship and presence in the school system.

For the Coast Guard; if we don't do that, and we don't have a movie like The Guardian come out every year, we will have trouble in that area....



Hockey. Hockey is an expensive sport to play. In addition to the thousands of dollars of gear, you require a rink, a sheet of ice to play on. If your community doesn't have a facility that can cool the ice and keep it frozen all year, then you have to wait for it to freeze in the winter, and that will really only happen in an area where the temperatures get cold enough. Now, to play hockey, which is a team sport, you need to have more than one kid on the block, who not only wants to play hockey, but can afford to play hockey.

In America, do you find urban, lower socio-economic populations hanging around a rink, playing hockey? No. First, there's no rink, and second, there's no gear. They're playing basketball, a sport on a court that involves one ball and shoes. Is that hockey's fault? Is it because basketball is being marketed to this population? No. It's because it's readily available, just as information regarding the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and Air Force is.

Some communities have programs to provide ice time and equipment to underprivaledged kids, in a hope to foster a lover for the game. Washington does this, and they've seen some great results.

Makes sense. Hell I lived in California (about 20 minutes from Long Beach--which was responsible for representing 61% of the Coast Guard total for interdicted cocaine/marijuana) and I've never (in person) met someone that was in the Coast Guard.

Camp Pendleton (USMC) is about 2 hours away, Edwards AFB (1.5 hours) and March AFB (2 hours) are farther away and I've met plenty of Marines, Navy, and Air Force.

I found out about CGA from my best friend (who's a Pacific Islander) that was applying. He was discouraged by the lack of choices for major.

 

[aglages]

Congress stays out of Coast Guard Academy picks
"..it would be likely that the Coast Guard Academy would have more blacks enrolled if Congress members and senators had a say in nominating qualified candidates."

Are there problems recruiting all URMs or only blacks?

 

[LineInTheSand]

The numbers are for "minorities" however the article specifies "black". This wouldn't be the first time the AP over simplified a term.

 

[Mongo]

USMMA benefits from two items because of their nomination procedures which would benefit USCGA immensely had this law passed.

First off, when an elected official has something to give away to his constituents, he is going to give it away. I am sure there are quite a few individuals at KP today who are only there because they were introduced to the MMA when they applied to their congressment for a nomination to one of the other SAs. A great free advertising venue.

Secondly, in this previously underrepresented area, when a candidate is appointed, everyone hears about it from the local newspaper, word of mouth, and from the school awards programs. Also, once enrolled, they return to their local schools and communities. Others become interested. Again, free advertising. Free self-perpetuating advertising.

Between the two, guaranteed geographic diversity. And anyone can tell you, the larger the qualified base from which to choose, the better the quality of the product. It will also help immensely in the enlisted recruiting process. Neither costs a single penny.

 

[LineInTheSand]

Negative ghost rider....selectees from every academy have the opportunity to have their selections announced. The truth is, NOTHING good comes out of Congressional nominations. Nothing.

 

[shellz]

First off, when an elected official has something to give away to his constituents, he is going to give it away... A great free advertising venue.

SA spots should not be "given" away by elected officials. They should be earned by the most qualified applicants.

... Neither costs a single penny.

I'd argue that the cost is high to those who happen to be highly qualified and living in highly competitive areas. Giving the advantage to a less qualified applicant of any race does not help our service academies produce the best officer corp possible.

Education is the key....fix it and things will fall into place. Get to kids early and often. Let them see what awaits a hard working student after high school. If you wait until high school to START with this message, it is often too late for a direct appointment. CGA does a good job, though, with it's prep school program. I do believe this program is working to increase the minority profile at CGA. I don't know what the retention rate of CGAS cadets is, but I do know they are very popular roommates to have...that extra year of prep is an amazing gift, and these kids have an advantage, at least initially, over their non-prep peers.

 

[Mongo]

SA spots should not be "given" away by elected officials. They should be earned by the most qualified applicants.



I'd argue that the cost is high to those who happen to be highly qualified and living in highly competitive areas. Giving the advantage to a less qualified applicant of any race does not help our service academies produce the best officer corp possible.

Education is the key....fix it and things will fall into place. Get to kids early and often. Let them see what awaits a hard working student after high school. If you wait until high school to START with this message, it is often too late for a direct appointment. CGA does a good job, though, with it's prep school program. I do believe this program is working to increase the minority profile at CGA. I don't know what the retention rate of CGAS cadets is, but I do know they are very popular roommates to have...that extra year of prep is an amazing gift, and these kids have an advantage, at least initially, over their non-prep peers.

Just a figure of speech that the MOCs have something to 'give' away. That's also the perception they sometimes project. With the present system, the "rich get richer and the poor get poorer". All the free 'advertising' remains in the present area of heavy concentration.

My argument against your belief that the present system is producaing the best officer corps, I would argue that greater geographic diversity would make a 'better' corps. Also, that the present selection system probably favors relatively wealthy surburban candidates at the expense of rural Southern and Western candidates, both of which would definitely enhance the officer corps.