I always find it amazing that people in this country...

It is such a shock to my wife and I. I told my son that some schools make a big deal about kids getting accepted to a SA and that they would even announce it on the school PA system when they found out they recieved an appointment. My son just laughed and said that would be the most embarrassing thing ever at his HS, not that they would ever do that for a SA anyway.

Just tell them that he got a $400,000+ scholarship with a leadership position guaranteed upon graduation.

...let us know what their reaction is! :yllol:
 
Where I'm from, there's a very, very small military presence and there was no JROTC in my high school or the schools around me. There was never any mention of the military academies at my school and I sought it out myself. The majority of graduates who enter the military (which is a very small number) enlist straight out of high school. I only know of maybe one or two people who attended an academy.

So the knowledge also really depends on the area you live in.
 
I live in the LARGEST CITY and the CAPITOL of our state. "Cheyenne". Population approximately 55,000 people. 88,000 in the whole county. About 20% of everyone is related, knows, employed, rents to, etc... F.E. Warren AFB. Everyone is so Pro-Military/Air Force. You can't go anywhere without getting a military discount.

Yet, we still have a lot of people who simply don't know/understand the air force academy. I was at a college/career fair where different colleges/employers in/out state were there to pitch themselves to potential applicants/students/etc... Military recruiters and such were there also. I ran into an individual that I had worked with in applying to numerous colleges. He introduced me to some of his friends. 2 were interested in the air force academy and he wanted them to talk to me. The Army recruiter was there at this particular table as well as 2 college reps. (Northern Colorado and a Community College in state).

I started to explain the academy to these 2 individuals, and the army recruiter in all sincerity jumped in and said that "Instead of just joining the air force and becoming an officer, the army would pay for them to go to college". I mentioned that if they went to the air force academy, they would be going to college. The college rep tried to come to the army recruiters aid, and said: "I think he means that if they went in the army, the army would pay for them to go to a REAL college. You know, one that's "Accredited. One like our college".

Well, most of you know by the way that my posts are, that I'm probably not too shy; nor am I ever at a loss for words. Well, I WAS on that day. After I collected my thoughts, I calmly explained that the U.S. Air Force Academy was the #1 ranked undergraduate school in the west. That it was ranked in the Top-10 colleges in the country, behind names like Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, etc... That it was fully accredited. And the list goes on. Of course; their response was the typical: "Wow, I didn't know that". And this is in an area that knows the air force very well.

I've heard so many of these. "Sorry your son/daughter couldn't get into a REAL college"..... "Air Force is good. s/he'll have the G.I. Bill when he gets out, so he can go to college then". "Well, once s/he's in, maybe they can take night classes and get their degree". The sad thing is many of them don't even realize that West Point is an Accredited College. Most think the academies are basically some sort of Tech/VoTech school. "Tech-School for officers" as opposed to "Tech-School for enlisted".

But as others have said, it's really not that important. We had over 12,000 applicants this year. Our GPA of the average appointee is still in the 3.86 area. They're highly qualified, diverse, and well rounded. If more people don't know the truth, that's totally fine. But as others have mentioned, when we describe the appointment to parents/school, such as at the senior awards ceremony at the end of the school year, many schools usually know about the academies, and they list the scholarships in numerical order. The academies are usually the last one mentioned "If done that way". When the ALO mentioned that it's a $400,000 scholarship; to an accredited university; in a top-10 school; with a commission serving their country; equating to a "Guaranteed Job upon graduation"; and some of the other benefits; then the parents who still have younger students know the truth. And they are the ones that matter. I'm not trying to recruit the 20 year old who graduated school 2 years ago and is working at the Mini-Mart. To be honest, once an individual leaves high-school, unless they are proactive enough to apply on their own, we're not looking for them. We want the 7th-11th grader. The awards ceremony educates the YOUNGER brother/sister and parents who are there to see their senior graduate. We want to acknowledge the great accomplishment of the appointee, but this is the best place to educate parents/students, and to recruit the next few years worth of applicants. later... mike...
 
Why don't you at least give her credit she knew one. I can guarantee you probably 50% of the people in this country don't know what those academies are.
 
I was actually very surprised reading this thread! I did not know that there were people who did not know about USAFA/USMA/USNA/etc!

I live on an Air Force Base, so the reactions I've gotten from telling people were more in the "Oh Congrats! When I was there 30 years ago..." etc. Very surprising to know what goes on outside of the gate!
 
I was actually very surprised reading this thread! I did not know that there were people who did not know about USAFA/USMA/USNA/etc!

I live on an Air Force Base, so the reactions I've gotten from telling people were more in the "Oh Congrats! When I was there 30 years ago..." etc. Very surprising to know what goes on outside of the gate!

Even inside the gate, not many people know what the academy is... xD I'm enlisted and when I said I was going to the academy, they thought NCO academy... I'm an E-3. Haha.
 
Your stories are scaring me. I fear for our country.

Why fear for our country. We have between 330,000 and 335,000 people in the active duty air force. As long as THEY are the ones with functioning brain cells, who cares about the non-military.

What bothers me MORE, is that many/most/lot/shiite load/etc... of Americans have no understanding whatsoever of how our government works. That's why the congress and the supreme court gets away with what they do. That's why irresponsible and terrible senators and representatives are continually reelected. These people have NEVER read the constitution or the declaration of independence. They have no concept of the 10th amendment in the bill of rights. They don't even know that the bill of rights ISN'T A LIST OF RIGHTS for the people, but rather a list of LIMITATIONS on the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!! These are the things that scare me.
 
Why fear for our country. We have between 330,000 and 335,000 people in the active duty air force. As long as THEY are the ones with functioning brain cells, who cares about the non-military.

What bothers me MORE, is that many/most/lot/shiite load/etc... of Americans have no understanding whatsoever of how our government works. That's why the congress and the supreme court gets away with what they do. That's why irresponsible and terrible senators and representatives are continually reelected. These people have NEVER read the constitution or the declaration of independence. They have no concept of the 10th amendment in the bill of rights. They don't even know that the bill of rights ISN'T A LIST OF RIGHTS for the people, but rather a list of LIMITATIONS on the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!! These are the things that scare me.

+1

When I was going through middle school, it was a graduation requirement to pass a Constitution test. It didn't even seem like the teacher teaching the class knew much about it. She pretty much taught the test... -.-; In high school, I took an elective US Government class. That class was actually informative. We had mock congresses and everything. We took two government classes. One class was the senate, and one class was the house. The teachers were president/vice president. We had to go through the entire process of drafting a bill, passing it through committee, etc. It was a very fun project! We even had a speaker and majority leader! We had to follow parliamentary procedure and all. Very fun project.
 
And they need to why? Candidates seem to still be pretty good so far....
I'm responding to the original poster. Also, I think if service academies were more well-known, we'd have a bigger candidate base. A lot of people have excellent personal traits, but for whatever reason don't do nearly as well as they could in high school, and regret that. Something like a potential service academy appointment is very good motivation to do well, but only if people know about them. I have several close friends who are military dependents of enlisted airmen who never knew about the academies until they joined JROTC.
 
I'm responding to the original poster. Also, I think if service academies were more well-known, we'd have a bigger candidate base. A lot of people have excellent personal traits, but for whatever reason don't do nearly as well as they could in high school, and regret that. Something like a potential service academy appointment is very good motivation to do well, but only if people know about them. I have several close friends who are military dependents of enlisted airmen who never knew about the academies until they joined JROTC.

While I sort of agree with you, I see it differently. I admit that there's a lot of kids who lose motivation in high school. Many because of a lack of involvement and encouragement by their parents. I was one of those. Had straight A's all the way up til 10th grade. I come from a working class family. "Family meaning parents, grand parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc..." Laborers, construction, plumbers, union workers, etc... College was never suggested. And half way through my 10th grade year, I was talking about college. All the "DREAMS" of the greatest colleges in the country. Well; my parents basically sat me down, and told me that I was totally on my own for college. That they couldn't afford to help me in any way at all. And because college was never important to them or anyone else in my extended family, none of them felt a need to look for OPTIONS. I can honestly say that I had absolutely no idea about the various academies. I knew about the military; just not the academies.

Long story short, I basically quit. I was a little Doogie Howser. I already had enough of all the mandatory as well as college prep classes to graduate. I spent my Junior and Senior year in high school taking classes like band, chorus, spanish, art, gym, etc... I got B's and A's, but didn't try for anything. Never had to study, etc... And honestly, I got really PISSED OFF at my parents. Unfortunately, I was also very young, because I got bumped up a grade, plus I started young. So, I chose to join the air force. I had to finish high school whether I liked it or not, because I was only 16. Of course, once I was in the air force, I learned all about options and opportunities. I now have 3 college degrees and am modestly successful. But I resented my parents for quite a few years.

I bring this up because the type of kids that are "Academy Material", are the same type of kids that are eligible for just about every college in the country. Including Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Stanford. Now many might not apply to those schools because their parents were also ignorant and made them believe that they couldn't afford to go to those schools. Either way, these are generally very motivated individuals. That's why they are in the top percentages of their class. They find options. They embrace options. Most of them know about the academies.

We don't need to advertise any more for the academies than we do. The navy has almost 17,000 applicants. Air Force has about 12,000 applicants. Knowing about a prestigious school like the academies is not going to motivate any student who isn't motivated now. It wouldn't have motivated me in high school. I needed my parents to be involved in my education. I needed them to push me. I was a 14-16 year old "KID". I wasn't an adult making rational choices. Like I said, college wasn't important to my family. My mom was a high school drop out when she was 15 and I was born. Graduate high school was a good accomplishment in our family. I'm not blaming my parents. I did then, but that's because I didn't understand their "Social Strata". My grandparents immigrated from Europe. Working class new jersey and new york city families. Anything above high school wasn't needed. That was for families with money, who didn't have to work. Not saying no one went to college; just that it wasn't part of the normal expectation of most of the people where I grew up.

So advertising the academies isn't going to motivate these kids. They need more parental involvement in their lives. More emphasis on education. Forget how it was when THEY were kids, and realize that there are more opportunities today. If the parents do their job right, their kids will discover what their possibilities are. They'll excel in school possibly and pursue some of these options. Including military academies. But it starts with the parents. It always starts with the parent. They are the ADULT; not their teenager. And you can't wait until the kid is 15-16 years old to decide: "Hey, what do you think of College?" Parents need to start when their kids start kindergarten. It's better late than NEVER, but they need to start letting their kids know at 5-6 years old that they CAN ACHIEVE ANYTHING. Don't put this responsibility on the kids.

Anyway; that's why I don't think the academies really need to advertise more. We'll just wind up with a larger pool of unqualified or lower quality students in the pool. The 1100-1300 coming in each year, will still be those that started AP classed in the 9th grade. Those who enrolled in the International Baccalaureate (IB) program. The class officers; boy/girls state; volunteering much of their free time; etc... By the time a kid rationalizes that they have no future plans, and even considers the military and possibly the academies, it's too late. They are already a junior or senior. They can't get the academics they need to get into the academy. Only their parents can prepare them to do their best; attend a great college; and be successful. Once they have this parental motivation, they'll find the academies on their own. Just like they'll find other great educational opportunities.
 
I believe it is reasonable to say that the people that really want to commission as officers in our military would do enough research to know that these Service Academies exist. I feel advertising it more would bring about people seeing it as just a free ride with a guaranteed job of 40+ k/yr + perks after graduation.
 
I think the service academies do a piss poor job of advertising.

For us candidates, that is OK :smile:.

I did not know about other academies besides WP until 7th grade. The reason is because I have only heard of someone for this area going to WP. Soon I heard about CGA because the valedictorian a few years ago had close ties to my area.

My first exposure to all of these academies came in a article in Boy's Life magazine about an Eagle Scout graduating from USNA (Scouting's magazine).
 
Army Recruiter on phone: Hi, i would like to talk to you about enlisting in the United States Army
Me: No, thank you sir. I am actually going to the USMMA this summer/fall.
Army Recruiter: Wow! Really!? I didn't know the Marines have their own service academy now. I am strongly an Army guy, but it is cool that you will be a Marine.
Me: *facepalm* I have another call, thank you for calling, goodbye sir.

you think explaining the USAFA, USMA, USCGA, and USNA is hard, try telling people what the USMMA is and how it works....
 
While I sort of agree with you, I see it differently. I admit that there's a lot of kids who lose motivation in high school. Many because of a lack of involvement and encouragement by their parents. I was one of those. Had straight A's all the way up til 10th grade. I come from a working class family. "Family meaning parents, grand parents, uncles, aunts, cousins, etc..." Laborers, construction, plumbers, union workers, etc... College was never suggested. And half way through my 10th grade year, I was talking about college. All the "DREAMS" of the greatest colleges in the country. Well; my parents basically sat me down, and told me that I was totally on my own for college. That they couldn't afford to help me in any way at all. And because college was never important to them or anyone else in my extended family, none of them felt a need to look for OPTIONS. I can honestly say that I had absolutely no idea about the various academies. I knew about the military; just not the academies.
I suppose I'm arguing from a personal perspective. In my statement you quoted in your post, I was speaking from personal experiences but I intentionally phrased it in the third-person.
I can say that, yes, I would have been much more motivated from about middle school age had I known about the service academies. I do not doubt that at all.
Do parents have a role with the academic development of their children? Yes, I think so, wholeheartedly. In fact, I passionately think so, because I never received much academic support from my parents. I was the kid who always got absolutely amazing standardized test scores but didn't make great grades. I blame that firstly on parents, because I never had any motivation from an early age, or at any age, to do homework or to study. I blame that secondly on myself. But, I cannot feel too guilty because I can't place the expectation on myself that I was supposed to motivate myself for college in elementary school. I feel let down.
I can agree with your statement about attracting more applicants and watering down the base. I can also agree with the general notion that anyone seeking commission in a service can reasonably be expected to know about the service academies even from a very superficial study of the paths to officership.
Something I don't agree with you on, and I'm stating it directly now, but it can be inferred from my earlier statements, is that an unmotivated kid can't be motivated by the prospect of college, specifically a service academy. It does happen, not a LOT, but in several cases I can personally think of, including my own. Sadly, it happens too late, including in my case. I know it's not the military's job to "convert" kids into motivated little student-athlete-leader machines. But, more general awareness of the academies, which is their own charge, is reasonable to expect.
 
Christcorp, did you enlist before you found out about USAFA?

Yes. But in all fairness, I did know about West Point (It was only 80 miles from my house), and I knew about Annapolis. (It's only about 180 miles from my house. But I really didn't know that they were a free standing college/commissioning. I thought it was something done after enlisting. I didn't know about air force.
 
Army Recruiter on phone: Hi, i would like to talk to you about enlisting in the United States Army
Me: No, thank you sir. I am actually going to the USMMA this summer/fall.
Army Recruiter: Wow! Really!? I didn't know the Marines have their own service academy now. I am strongly an Army guy, but it is cool that you will be a Marine.
Me: *facepalm* I have another call, thank you for calling, goodbye sir.

you think explaining the USAFA, USMA, USCGA, and USNA is hard, try telling people what the USMMA is and how it works....

It won't stop once you get there either. Your parents will continue to field calls from recruiters and have to explain USMMA to them. Then when you're home on break, you too can join the fun.

One thing I did on one early trip home was get in my Service Dress Blue's and go to the local recruiting stations that were calling my house. When I walked in in uniform they got the idea and took me off the "call" list.
 
my ds does a fair share of explaining as well. the best story is his hs swim coach who did his physical fitness test for him; at senior nite, the last home swim dual meet coach indicates ds will be enlisting in the Air Force. I spent the rest of the post championship season answering questions from other parents as to why my honors student was enlisting.
when you explain, the lightbulb goes off and they all go WOW - you must be so proud of your child. its hard to understand. we are not a military family but i grew up with a respect for our men and women in uniform and knowledge about all the academies.... i even knew about the coast guard. somehow along the way it became a dream of my ds to attend the usafa. People have such blinders on. they may be 'smart' but often are ignorant as well. They only see what is in their little corner.
 
I guess I'm simply saying that the academies don't have a recruiting problem. Therefor, why spend limited resources and tax dollars on MORE advertising? What would we gain? Nothing. We are getting the best of the best in our academies now. Do you think we'd get Better? I don't. I know what some of the average applicants look like. I know what their records and applications look like. I am also very familiar with what harvard, brown, Purdue, Stanford, Georgetown, and other applicants look like also. The academies don't want just academic geeks; or just big time jocks; or someone who is in every club and team there is, but doesn't have leadership skills. They want the well rounded applicant.

That's why the class average going into the academy is 3.86. I've personally seen 4.0gpa and 35ACT students get turned down for an appointment. That's all they had. Nothing else. So whether the academy has 5,000; 10,000; or 50,000 applicants, they'll still only take the 1100-1300 applicants each year, and it will remain the same quality as it is now. No reason to waste money and resources on advertising for something we don't need, and won't improve the academy.
 
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