I think I don't stand a chance anymore...

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ESLGuy, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. ESLGuy

    ESLGuy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, freshman year my cumulative GPA was 4.571, and my class rank was either 23 or 26 out of 463, I think, and I took all honors and had an A in every class except Honors Algebra (C). I was in NJROTC then, and I did out of school sports.

    This year, I am a sophomore, and I am not doing as well. Currently, I'm earning a very low grade in Honors Geometry, and after I take finals I will probably earn a "F" in the class. I will probably get A's in my other classes. I am doing JV swimming and JV tennis or track this year. I am the President of Aviation Club. I spoke to my counselor awhile ago, about taking regular instead of honors, but she said it was too late in the year. I know this will really, really hurt my chances.

    Basically, I want to know if I can still get into NAPS/Foundation/NROTC? Should I not even apply? I spoke to my teacher, and she isn't really sympathetic. We aren't allowed to make up or redo anything in her class. I just feel like I've failed. That I won't accomplish or achieve anything, because of one really bad grade.

    However, my friend, who is African American (he tells me this is important) did really bad academically his freshman year. He eventually became co-captain of the track team, and CO of our NJROTC unit. He was accepted into NAPS. Another girl had a lot of B's freshman and sophomore year, and she got a NROTC scholarship to Purdue. That kind of gives me hope, but I still feel that I don't stand a chance.

    Now, I'm going to talk to my counselor again, but I doubt it will help. I might talk to my math teacher again, but like I've already said, it probably won't do me much good. I wanted to be a fighter pilot in the navy, but I've realized that probably isn't going to happen.

    However, I'm not one to give up, which is why I didn't want to drop the class when I had the chance,even though I didn't know it. I think my only option left is summer school, but the grade I earn there won't replace anything. Will they even see the grade I get their? Should I even apply when the time comes, or will I just be wasting my time?
     
  2. Lawman32RPD

    Lawman32RPD Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    115
    You will find that life is more of a marathon than a sprint, and also that there is no reason to quit the field before you need to. There are many individuals who regularly post here who know a great deal more about this than I do. If you look around at past threads you can get a reasonably good idea about what kind of grades, standardized test scores, and extra curriculars that you need in to order to have a reasonably good chance at securing an ROTC scholarship. You may also find as you mature that there are usually a number of different paths to the top of the mountain. Put differently, there are often a variety of ways to accomplish a particular goal. If you want to commission you can start as an ROTC cadet without a scholarship. If, for instance, you wanted to go to a senior military college but didn't get accepted to, for example, Texas A&M's main campus at College Station you could try at A&M's Galveston campus. If you have a 2.5 GPA at the end of your freshman year you are guaranteed acceptance at the College Station main campus. A&M's out of state cadets usually qualify for in-state tuition, as do, I think, North Georgia's. Maybe you have to work for a year or two to save money to then go to college. The point I am trying to make is this: You won't know until you try. Try to learn as much about the field as you can and give it a try. There is only one certainty - if you don't try - such as trying for an ROTC scholarship - then you absolutely won't get it. Good luck.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    931
    I agree with Lawman, don't give up yet.

    I would suggest you sit down with your GC right now. Failing Geometry, especially Honors can impact you further down the road. Some schools require approval to take Honors or APs. If that is your school, than you may not be able to take any more Honors since both yrs you have struggled. Additionally as you go further in Sciences, such as, Chem or Physics, the foundation you will need will build upon your math skills.

    The boards understand that kids have bumps in their curriculum path.

    My true concern for you is I don't think you understand the academic leanings for NROTC and USNA. They like Science and Math. If you don't back track now, and hire a tutor, when you go to your next level Math, you will not have grasped the basics of the prior Math. I.E. part of your struggle started back with ALG I. Next yr in pre-calc, trig, or advance math, you will have the same problem, since you didn't get the foundation of Geo. Plus it will impact your PSAT, SAT, ACT.

    NAPS exist for this reason. They believe the candidate has the Whole Person aspect covered, but academically they are not up to par with USNA's needs/wants.

    If you say that Math is your weak subject, and you really don't like it, but want to attend USNA or get an engineering degree because you love Science. Please take the time and investigate the curriculum you will need to graduate. It has a ton of Math classes. Hence, again, why I am stressing you need to hire a tutor now, or re-take Geometry. If you re-take it, most schools will * it on your transcript, but it will show only the new grade.

    It appears your school is a semester program, i.e. you are expecting an F, and it is only Dec. If so, your GC can help you work your schedule to take it again. It may mean come sr. yr. you won't do jump start, but at least academically you will be better off.

    OBTW, I understand you want to fly in the Navy, but do some soul searching and investigating because if you only want to be a pilot, than how you will feel when they say you will be Public Affairs, or Maintenance? There is no guarantee you will be selected for UPT, you will graduate and wing from UPT, but there is a guarantee when you commission you will 4 yrs for NROTC or 5 for USNA Active Duty,

    Good luck.

    Your friend is correct about Navy's diversity program, it is a hot button topic, but yes, they pay more attention to certain candidates.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  4. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe spend more time studying geometry and less time worrying about a grade that isn't final yet...There is still plenty of time in the semester to bust your butt and ace the final, which would almost guarantee at least a C. Find a friend, find a tutor, go talk to another teacher, do whatever it takes to ace that test.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    931
    PDB, I am thinking he is on a semester school system because he said Final, not Mid-Term, yr long it would be Mid-Term, not a final. Our kids went to HS in different states. NC it is like college, they take 4 classes each semester. If he is in a system like that, his back is against the wall because come Xmas they will be taking finals. When they return in Jan. they take 4 new classes.

    Their schedules are made for the entire yr when they enter in the fall.

    I agree, if it is like VA, and it is a yr long course, than there is more than enough time. If he pulls a B or C for the following quarters by getting a tutor, than he will have a C and this is a moot point.

    The OP knows he has a problem, and he is the only one that can answer why at this point, so far along he has not yet hired a tutor. The comment about his teacher not being sympathetic raised a red flag for me. Most teachers in HS won't allow make up work or re-do's, welcome to the big boy/girl world, but also most teachers will be honest and say here are some tutors for you. They will say if you don't I expect you to fail.

    I worked in the education system for 5 yrs. Every HS teacher I know hold the opinion of: My job is to get you ready for college. This is why some kids have trouble transitioning from middle to high school. Coddling is gone.

    Funny thing is when these kids go off to college they get a new rude awakening that even as harsh as their teachers were regarding grading, they coddled them compared to their college prof.
     
  6. Oldsalt

    Oldsalt Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Matas,
    Don't give up. Being an Officer is about finding solutions to problems. Recovering from a misstep makes a great story.
    Get help! If you can't afford a tutor, there are some great videos on line about understanding math. I had to go to them to refresh my calculus skills for my DS.

    If math just isn't your thing, NROTC (MO) or AROTC may be your path.
    It is never over. I had a friend that ended up being a 27 year old 2nd Lt. He was told no many times, but is flying Hornets today.
    Good Luck!
     
  7. khergan

    khergan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're still in high school. Do as best you can and don't worry about it.

    If you don't get a scholarship, you might just have to rethink how you attain your goals. It's not the end of the world if you don't get exactly what you want. You may have to go to a less expensive or less prestigious school. You may have to work a part time job. Hell, you may even have to work and save up to go to college later.

    As someone said earlier, if you want something bad enough, you'll find a way to get it. Getting all worried now when you're still in high school is a good way to kill your dreams prematurely. Just do your best at everything that you do and you'll be fine.

    One of the more important skills to have in life is being able to bounce back from failure. Everyone fails at one point or another in their life, whether that be in academics, in practical skills or in any other aspect of life. It happens. Just learn from your mistakes and bounce back. Resiliency is an absolute must have skill in today's military - you'll never even make it through ROTC let alone the military if you don't have the ability to overcome setbacks.
     
  8. BigBear

    BigBear Class of 2015

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    1
    Pima, I see what you're saying and I agree; even if his geometry course ends this semester, the final is usually weighted enough to swing a high F or D into the C range as long as you do well. Even if it is too late to save the grade, geometry is a skill that will help both in future math courses (HS and college) as well as the standardized tests that weigh so heavily on admissions. It would be in his (or her?) best interest to master it now before it comes back to bite you in the butt later.
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Matas, if you can't swing a tutor try this site. There are all kinds of math, history and other topics on this Khan Academy site and they are all free.
    http://www.khanacademy.org/math/geometry

    I agree with everyone else. Make every attempt possible to turn this around NOW. Barring that, retake the course. You don't want to fall behind on the fundamentals. I'm sure all your math issues are fixable if you take the time to work through them. In the meantime use a tutor to help catch up on what you "missed".
     
  10. trackandfield08

    trackandfield08 USCGA 2014

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    84
    I definitely understand what it feels like to not do well in a subject. I took geometry freshmen year and a month before the final I had an F. I don't know how your school schedule works in terms of when the semester ends. My high school worked on block scheduling as well and the first semester ended at the end January.

    Here's what happened to me: My mom kicked my butt and made me go to see my teacher every day after school for about an hour and a half to go over all of my old tests and quizzes in order to learn the material at a slower pace until the final came. At the end of the final, I was able to pull my F up to a B-. It is possible if you put the effort in. Your teacher, although she may not be sympathetic in terms of make up work, should want to help if she sees that you are willing to put the effort in. To be honest, she shouldn't let you do a "redo." If you get help and work to learn the material, there's no reason why you can't do well on the final.

    Good luck! And don't lose help, you're a sophomore. One blip on your transcript is not the end all be all.
     
  11. John41057

    John41057 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2012
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    High School Grades

    Hi
    I agree that you should never give up. My DS finished his Junior year with a 3.2 GPA which is not competitive for an appointment. This was due to his inattention his freshman and sophomore year. So he got motivated and enrolled on-line with American Public University and finished 15 college units working over the summer and during school year. He finished his college work with a 3.95 GPA and now is entering the class of 2017. It just comes down to how much you want it and how much you are willing to do to reach your goal. Keep going forward and never give up, anything is possible.
    Regards
    John
     
  12. ESLGuy

    ESLGuy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was told that if you retake a class (during the summer,etc) that the F stays on your transcripts. My stepmom is considering a tutor, so I will push for it. The girl that went to Purdue said that last year all the seniors but one were commissioned for what they wanted.

    I'm trying, but last year I had a B in Honors Algebra, and then I took the final. I failed it, and it brought my grade down to a C. I'm afraid things will only get worse.

    Actually, all of my teachers (especially other honors teachers) allow us to make up work, redo tests/quizes at least once, etc. I heard that my Honors Geometry teacher raised a girl's grade last year from a D to a C.

    Like I said, I may get a tutor, but finals are slightly more than 3 weeks away. I'll also check out the website you mentioned.

    In the mornings now, monday-friday (except tues., late start and teacher is busy) I come to my teacher for help with homework and/or assignments. Then during lunch I go to get help from a few teachers in the library. However, I can't go after school, because I am doing swimming mon-sat. and if you miss practices then you get kicked off the team. I understand grades are important, but sports (esp. varisity) are also important to the academy (and NAPS).

    I might get a D as a final grade, but that is still bad, and I won't get into NAPS with a D. N/MO/AF ROTC might still be an option, but in my eyes I'll still think of myself as having failed to achieve my goal. A D isn't much better than an F, so I really doubt the board will care.

    I think I forgot to mention this, but we have semesters, and finals are in 3/4 weeks.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Well, you're certainly not going to succeed with an attitude that says 'I've failed and I'm a loser'. Do you want to do this or not? Get on it. Get the tutor and do whatever else you have to do to get that grade up.... but you also need to get on top of your attitude. You need to be positive about this.

    I'm not going to tell you that you should drop swimming in favor of the grade because I believe you can do both. I also believe you can pull this off. The evidence that tells me this is that you came here for help. Get with it soldier. Formulate your plan of attack and execute it! :thumb:

    PS. OK. I'm going to add you ought to consider dropping swimming for now. Regardless of what happens with the academy and ROTC the most important thing here is to get an education, including college. You need to get the grade up just to achieve that at this point. Taking a break from sports until you have the academics under control can be a good thing that will make an interesting tale in your interviews for college, the academy, or ROTC. You can brag about how you cut your loses to turn it around and then rejoined the team later after you had done so. Give it some thought.... A Marine Captain once told my DS not to be afraid to execute the 70% solution to a problem when he had to. Dropping swimming may be the 70% solution for you. Not saying you should do it as that's your decision... but consider it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  14. pilot2b

    pilot2b Candidate Appointee

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm a current NAPSter. People at NAPS are here for a number of different reasons. The most common is grades. There are certainly people here who have failed high school courses. Keep pushing on for the next several years of high school and don't give up now. Feel free to PM me if you have any NAPS specific questions. :thumb:
     
  15. ESLGuy

    ESLGuy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well, I wouldn't be added back to the team. The coaches have made that clear, and with me missing saturdays (because of Lithuanian school) and coming an hour late on tuesdays (aviation club). The best I could do is a D, with finals coming up. I might get the teacher to give me a D purely out of pity, but that wouldn't be good enough anyway.

    I will and am trying my best, but I'm just worried that it isn't good enough.

    Also, I will get 15 posts, then PM you pilot2b.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    The coaches wouldn't even let you come back next season? BTW, what's their rules regarding dropping you for bad grades. Is a departure from the team coming anyway?
    Also, worrying doesn't help, but then I suppose worrying can't be helped. If your doing your best then its your best, and that's all you can do. You should be proud of yourself for doing that.
     
  17. ESLGuy

    ESLGuy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    As far as I know, you can still play with a couple of F's. I could come back next season, but I would only make varsity senior year then. Also, I wouldn't have a lot of extra time. It's not significantly affecting my grade. I just don't understand proofs.
     
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,541
    Likes Received:
    1,003
    Don't know if this helps but try here:
    http://www.sparknotes.com/math/geometry3/geometricproofs/summary.html
    or my favorite:
    http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/mastering-the-formal-geometry-proof.html
    Or here:
    http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Geometry/Chapter_2
    Or maybe that link to the Khan Academy I posted earlier might have something that helps. It's a great site that was covered on a recent 60 Minutes episode.

    Don't know if any of these will actually help you understand the material but its a place to start while you're waiting on a tutor etc. and is probably a better use of your time than hanging here at this point.
     
  19. ESLGuy

    ESLGuy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks. I appreciate that you are trying to help me, but I still feel like the best I could do is bring my grade up to a D, and then I think that that wouldn't be good enough for anything. I don't do a very good job of being optimistic, but I try to be realistic. It's hard to give 110% when you feel like you've already lost the battle. Anything I do, I feel I'm doing in vain. I was also too stubborn to take regular instead of honors. I regret that the most.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    931
    I only skimmed, but I have to say in my mind lots of red flags went up.
    Um...great, but here are my red flags.

    Are you applying for Purdue?
    Are you competitive for admissions?
    How many wanted rated...if 1 didn't get it, and 3 applied, you have a 66% shot...let's not even go into the fact that UPT does not wing 100%. Not by a long shot
    How many dis-enrolled?
    Nobody can predict 6 yrs from now regarding manpower needs.

    You need to ask yourself would you be happy being a maintenance officer in the Navy. I get it, you have a dream, our DS did too, but we drilled in his head, he will serve at the luxury of the AF.

    This is another red flag. You had a B, but failed the final. To me as a teacher it means the foundation was not built. You failed because academically somewhere it didn't click/absorb.

    Not following, unless you are hoping this teacher will take you to a D.

    Clarification needed
    now the next post said
    What is it...miss practices and kicked off or not. Can't miss practices, but you miss 2X a week.

    Is Lithuanian school due to heritage, or is it like aviation club...a choice.

    Do you see your posts are contradictory?

    I am sorry, but you say one thing in a post, and another in the next.
    Heartless teacher, but has been known to raise grades up.

    I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to illustrate when it comes down to your interviews, be it MOCs or CoCs, they may ask why 2+2 in your defense is not equaling 4.

    It is something you need to think about.

    Also, the idea of saying I always wanted to be a Navy pilot! The Navy wants officers, not just pilots. You know what they call an O1 or even an O10 pilot? It is not Pilot Smith, it is Ensign or Admiral Smith.

    Final red flag
    Sorry, but I think you need to hear harsh truths now. As an F15E WSO wife of 20 yrs AD, and as an AFROTC 2012 grad Mom at UPT now. If you find it hard in HS to give 110% when you feel you already lost the battle, I am not sure the military is a good fit for you.

    It is rarer than rare that anyone will crow for you or pat you on the back. In the AF flying world they are known to eat their young. I assume the same is true for Navy.

    The it's hard to give 110% when you feel like you've already lost the battle comment scares the beegeegees out of me. You are going to defend this country.

    I get it you are 15/16, but if you really want to be competitive IMPHO, accept responsibility now for your actions.

    If you want us to sugar coat or coddle, we can do that too. It is up to you now to direct us on what you want.

    Again, I know this post comes off harsh, and I apologize for that, but IMPO if we aren't honest with you now, we do greater harm later on.

    I think you have a great shot commissioning, keep moving forward.
     

Share This Page