If Admissions Isn't First In, First Out

sorry I wasn't clear-Her minority status was not her being a girl, she is Hispanic (Bilingual)-besides being perfect in every way. The competition between her and my son was a non-starter.
 
Gotcha! Then she's in a totally different category.

But ... if she were just a typical, "traditional" candidate, the illustration would hold true. So the point remains the same and clearly illustrates the advantage to applying early and often!
:wink::confused::tongue:
 
I think it does illustrate why you need to get things done as perfectly as possible but as soon as possible. He was fortunate to understand the process and know who he was up against. He didn't really have any advantages over the other applicant from our district. In fact she had a lot more cards in play. His best advantage was getting the application done as quick as possible.:rolleyes:
 
I think it does illustrate why you need to get things done as perfectly as possible but as soon as possible. He was fortunate to understand the process and know who he was up against. He didn't really have any advantages over the other applicant from our district. In fact she had a lot more cards in play. His best advantage was getting the application done as quick as possible.:rolleyes:

Clearly there is a balance between submitting early and submitting the best application possible (perhaps except when you know who your competition is and most don't). Where on the timeline this falls for each individual candidate will vary depending on how hard they work at it and how soon they start.

This seems to me to be a pointless discussion because I think everyone is right in some way. Peace.
 
Ya think? :confused: Me too!:shake:

And this wisdom from an aging wannabe who struts around, beating his chest feathers, crowing ... GO 'COCKS!:rockon: :eek::scratch: :zip:
 
AJM7680, I do think had he waited the outcome would be very different.

Just my very personal opinion.
I think your opinion would bear a lot of credability if you shared each of the two individual's total WPM scores and how they compared to the overall group of candidates, both successful and not.

Again:
I suspect you may've missed the point in your discussion of points.
Please elaborate.
 
Clearly there is a balance between submitting early and submitting the best application possible (perhaps except when you know who your competition is and most don't).
How would knowing one's competition, especially when the waiting list/pool consists of almost every qualified candidate in the country, affect the timing of ones submittals?
 
I think your opinion would bear a lot of credibility if you shared each of the two individual's total WPM scores and how they compared to the overall group of candidates, both successful and not.

Hi AJM7680, That's a particularly silly request when you know one would have neither and individual's total WPM scores nor how they compared to the overall group of candidates.

In fact this is an entirely foolish debate. Frankly, I don't care if you feel that my "opinion has credibility" or not. I told an experience that happened this admissions cylce to my son and a reader can extrapolate whatever point they would like to make from it...or not.

I feel like I just wasted a valuable three minutes of my life responding to this nonsense. I should have known better...shame on me.
 
Folks,

Let's stick to the issues/quesions asked instead of poking at each other.

Thanks,

Your friendly mod
 
I feel like I just wasted a valuable three minutes of my life responding to this nonsense. I should have known better...shame on me.
Of course it was not a waste of your life. If we have just convinced a single potential candidate who stumbles on this website today who might have succumbed to second-hand rumors and/or anecdotal information, that they are not too late, that their chances have not diminished, and that they should go ahead and complete their application, then we have not wasted our 'valuable' time.
 
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How would knowing one's competition, especially when the waiting list/pool consists of almost every qualified candidate in the country, affect the timing of ones submittals?

At that level one wouldn't know nor could it make a difference. This statement was in reference to Vista's tale about the kid who knew the competition in his district, and in fact his very school. I could see where it might make a difference in that case, and in Vista's tale it did. I would expect such an occurance ot be extremely rare.
 
AJM: I would agree that the 20 min vs 20 sec anecdote probably is a gross exaggeration, but I would believe that especially in the early sessions of the board there is considerably more time available to assess packets as there are fewer that are complete enough to be worth reviewing. My expectation would be that the board's time in the fall is spent reviewing those packets that are showing indications of being exceptional and those that are complete enough to warrant serious consideration. I have heard the same information at BGO training sessions and at Area Coordinator training sessions. Interestingly enough I hear a rep from MIT's Admissions Office recommend to delegates of Buckeye Boys State that they should do their best to get their packets in early in the fall as they would receive more thorough assessment than if they waited until mid winter or later.

This is why I always recommend completely your packet early. The pool of qualified candidates continues to grow which means the competition gets keener.

Your packet may look "exceptional" in the fall but, on a relative scale, by spring, may only be "above average".
 
AJM: I would agree that the 20 min vs 20 sec anecdote probably is a gross exaggeration, but I would believe that especially in the early sessions of the board there is considerably more time available to assess packets as there are fewer that are complete enough to be worth reviewing. My expectation would be that the board's time in the fall is spent reviewing those packets that are showing indications of being exceptional and those that are complete enough to warrant serious consideration. I have heard the same information at BGO training sessions and at Area Coordinator training sessions. Interestingly enough I hear a rep from MIT's Admissions Office recommend to delegates of Buckeye Boys State that they should do their best to get their packets in early in the fall as they would receive more thorough assessment than if they waited until mid winter or later.
Note the boldface (mine) above. Unless your application is exceptional, Admissions is going to set it aside and not present it to the Board until later anyway. Any record that is close to the cutoff, which at this point they do not know where it is, or any record that will benefit with possible additional inputs (SATs, mid-term grades, etc) will be set aside and examined later. So, for many, early submittal really does not matter.

What MIT does and what a federally funded servce academy with admissions criteria dictated by federal law does is two totally separate evolutions. To compare them is not valid. Also, for an Admissions official to state "we have a home life. We don't want to spend our entire holidays examining records. Send them in early so we can plan and distribute our workload somewhat" is one thing. To imply or state that "we are unable to adequately evaluate records submitted later in the cycle due to complete Board overload and those candidates will not receive a fair evaluation" is something completely different. And unsatisfactory.
 
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Your packet may look "exceptional" in the fall but, on a relative scale, by spring, may only be "above average".

I feel like I am playing whack a mole.

This is not a valid comment. Records are not deemed "exceptional" or "above average" but "qualified" and "unqualified". It is the WPM score exclusively that determines degree of quality. 95% of this score is assigned administratively by the Admissions Department and is very objective. Activity "A" receives "X" points, activity "B" receives "Y" points, etc., etc. Only the last 5% or so is assigned by the Board and their input has nothing to do with when it was submitted.

So, if you are a prospective candidate, go ahead and submit. You are not at a disadvantage. If you are the parent of a prospective candidate and hounded them unrelentlessly to have their submittals completed by the end of summer vacation, don't be too smug. Other than possibly allowing the Board to secure the week before Christmas at 1900 instead of 2000, you have done little to affect your offspring's chances of appointment.
 
This is not a valid comment. Records are not deemed "exceptional" or "above average" but "qualified" and "unqualified". It is the WPM score exclusively that determines degree of quality.

But the field of candidates continues to grow throughout the application period.

Let's say a candidate has a WPM of 66,000. (I'm just making numbers up) That's very good. But not if the field of those with scores greater than that is very large. Ultimately, it's all relative. During an early session of the admissions board, they may decide that 66,000 is very good and decide to offer an appointment. That may be because, at that point in time, 66,000 is a relatively high WPM. Later, 66,000 may appear so-so as some super-stud packets become complete.

It goes without saying that only those who are "qualified" will be considered for an appointment. But not everybody who is "qualified" will be offered one. So, the relativeness does matter.

Granted, for a vast majority of the candidates, how soon you get your packet in is probably not going to make any difference. But there are always some on the cusp. There are always some who, seemingly, have an outstanding record yet, inexplicably, do not get an appointment. Maybe for those few, getting it in early would make a difference.
 
Let's say a candidate has a WPM of 66,000. (I'm just making numbers up) That's very good. But not if the field of those with scores greater than that is very large. Ultimately, it's all relative. During an early session of the admissions board, they may decide that 66,000 is very good and decide to offer an appointment. That may be because, at that point in time, 66,000 is a relatively high WPM. Later, 66,000 may appear so-so as some super-stud packets become complete.
What appointment will be offered to the 66,000 in an early session? There are very few, if any, to offer. No nominations with which to marry this qualification to. This is why your argument does not hold water. The 66,000 will be stacked in all the nomination categories to which he is eligible and then the qualified candidate with the highest WPM will be selected once the deadline is reached and the particular slate is finalized. Also, you imply that the Board "offers" appointments. They only determine qualification and final WPM score. Offers are done administratively by the CGO based on established guidelines/laws determining each slate. The vast majority of appointments are via the MOC system, either principal, competitive, or waiting list and this process can only begin once the slates are submitted, usually in the latter part of the calendar year, or early into the new year.

The only exception that I can think of is Presidentials, and perhaps ROTC. Packages are relatively consistent year-to-year, perhaps recently trending slightly upward, so, using your numbers, if 60,000 was the Presidential cut-off in the previous year, it will probably be close the following year. So, it would be safe to go ahead and offer a few appointments to those well into the anticipated range, say 63,000 and above.

The system works and is fair for all those who follow the instructions. This forum should offer encouragement. Any discouragement should be both factual and relevant. I don't think early applcants having a better chance would pass even the National Enquirer fact checker.
 
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If Admissions Isn't First In, First Out then how does rolling work? Are the files that come in first reviewed first?

The original Question was: Are the files that come in first reviewed first?

The answer to that is –in least in part-yes. If not how would you explain away the list of kids who already received LOAs (without presidential noms) this year? Guesses? Tossed up in the air and the ones who crossed the line get early letters of assurance? No, their packets get reviewed.


I understand your desire, AJM7680, to not discourage kids from applying because they did not do so early to the 2017 cycle. I think you are absolutely correct. For most applying, there is a deadline and to be considered and for admission all parts need to be in by that deadline. Then the slate of ten from the MOC gets reviewed.


However, to say there is not an advantage in applying early, when there is indeed a list those already given letters of assurance is giving faulty information.


Yes, most get in after the review of the slate. However, there are those who get in early and to get in early you need to get your application in early.

For those who are Juniors who are putting your packets together for the 2018 cycle, you can wait like AJM7680 suggested until the deadline and be on the slate reviewed-that is perfectly acceptable. Or you can maximize every single opportunity in this highly competitive climate and you can pull it all together as early and as perfectly as you can with a slim possibility that you can be given an early letters of assurance or if you have a presidential you can be already accepted.

Only you can decide what works best for you.
 
The same admissions criteria applies whether you are the first, somewhere in the middle or the last person to submit your application. Some seem to be applying that you increase your chances of being 3Q by applying early.

As is typical with many topics on here, a number of different subjects are being jumbled together. Asking if the process if FIFO (which is where this thread started) is different from asking "do I increase my CHANCES for admissions by applying early?".
 
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