If Admissions Isn't First In, First Out

[Vista123]

Some seem to be applying that you increase your chances of being 3Q by applying early.
.

I am sorry if that is being taken away from my posting. Simply applying early does not change the qualifications for admission.

However, there are advantages, in my opinion, to applying early which in fact increase your chances of acceptance.

One Point:
To post that there are no advantages in applying early is not accurate-unless all of the BGOs who post on the forum with instructions to apply early are consistently simply wrong.

Another separate Point (but not entirely unrelated):
Some files in early do get reviewed early. Is it strictly first in= first reviewed? I dont know.

what I would hate to see happen is that people shoot for the deadline-because the deadline is just as good. this can cause problems.

it is to your advantage to endeavor to get your entire packet completed during the summer before senior year. First, the Dodmerb process can be quick or it can be as slow as molasses. You may need a lot of time to get through it. Dodmerb isn’t triggered (the process started) until you have a certain percentage of your application completed. Additionally, medical waivers will not typically be requested unless your file is complete. The further along in the process the longer DODmerb seems to take as more applicants are in the system (it takes longer the later you wait due to increasing file volume). Second, many BGO officers will not interview you until you have a certain percentage of your application completed. Third, you're more likely to get an authorization for a CFA retest if test was failed sooner rather than later. If you wait until the end it may be too late if you do poorly on your CFA. Finally, senior year is already hard and time consuming. Between trying to keep up your grades and trying to live the “life of a senior” that doesn't leave a lot of time to get your packet in.

Waiting until later can lead to more obstacles that can decrease your odds.

 

[Whistle Pig]

The same admissions criteria applies whether you are the first, somewhere in the middle or the last person to submit your application. Some seem to be applying that you increase your chances of being 3Q by applying early....

I believe that's where some have worked to take this thread.

What "some" are correctly implying is that one increases his chances of being APPOINTED by applying earlier than later. Rolling admission at the SAs is not merely about trying to use applicants to disseminate the work of the Admissions Committee from September to April and beyond.

 

[time2]

"Some" of us are trying to dispel false opinions being expressed and provide the candidates now applying accurate/correct information.

 

[Whistle Pig]

Such as? Can you succinctly summarize what you believe is incorrect?

 

[AJM7680]

However, to say there is not an advantage in applying early, when there is indeed a list those already given letters of assurance is giving faulty information.

The discussion to this point has been whether it is advantageous to being admitted by applying earlier. For the above information to be faulty, you would have to prove that there are those who receive LOAs who, if they had applied later, would not receive an appointment. I don't think you, or anyone else, can do this.

 

[kinnem]

Angels

How many angels can stand on the head of a pin? Does it matter? Reminds me of this debate!

 

[Prep]

The discussion to this point has been whether it is advantageous to being admitted by applying earlier. For the above information to be faulty, you would have to prove that there are those who receive LOAs who, if they had applied later, would not receive an appointment. I don't think you, or anyone else, can do this.

I went to a service academy days information session. All of the service academies had liaisons or officers there. Without exception each liaison or officer stated that you should get your service academy applications in as early as possible to increase your odds of admittance. Your viewpoint is directly opposite of what these officers and liaisons were stating. Can you please tell me how you are affiliated with a service academy with regards to the current application process? Where do you get your information if you beg my pardon for asking. It is radically different from what I have heard every single admission officer state.

 

[Prep]

Also I mean no disrespect when I ask.

 

[usna1985]

Getting one's package in early benefits both candidates and USNA.

For candidates:

(1) It's done so you can focus on academics and enjoying your senior year
(2) It shows motivation, enthusiasm, etc.
(3) It improves your chances of getting a CVW -- simple math because there are more available early in the year than late in the year
(4) It improves your chances of an LOA because there isn't much need to send out LOAs late in the process (some may go out but very few)
(5) In some cases (e.g., you are the principal MOC nominee), you may receive your appointment earlier

For USNA

(1) They get a better sense of the quality of applicant pool earlier in the process
(2) For principal nominees and ranked nominees, they know you have completed your application and are (or are not) qualified, so they can start slotting those slates earlier

There are probably a few additional reasons I've missed. I'm not willing to say that a well-qualified applicant who completes the application in Dec. or Jan. won't be appointed -- I've had it happen quite a few times.

But, all things being equal, why would you want to wait? Most of your packet will not change significantly and, if it does, you can always augment with the new info. To me, there is decent upside and not much downside to completing your packet early.

 

[usnabgo08]

USNA1985...completely agree!

Also, as a side to this discussion....you really can't start too late in the process...most MOC nomination packages are due in Oct/Nov, so if you haven't even considered USNA by that point, your nominations might be limited to none, which then means that your odds of appointment decrease. And as AJM pointed out on an earlier thread, most of the "at large" pool comes from MOC nomination slates.

And if a candidate is just lazy....well there is no reason no to submit it late. I also think a candidate who opened an application very early in the process and is way behind (i.e. Nov/Dec timeframe) might have some explaining to do. I think that question would be fair game during an interview. Obviously, I'm not talking about some extenuating circumstance or hardship that prevented submission.

 

[Memphis9489]

What appointment will be offered to the 66,000 in an early session? There are very few, if any, to offer. No nominations with which to marry this qualification to.

True, I should have said LOA. Those can be decided upon without a nomination.

 

[AJM7680]

True, I should have said LOA. Those can be decided upon without a nomination.

I think we can fnally put this to bed. Getting an LOA does not increase ones chances of admission, it just allows them to be relatively certain sooner that they will be admitted. Had they applied later, they still would be admitted, they just probably wouldn't get an LOA. Read usna1985's post carefully. There are many advantages and reasons for applying early, but none of them include an increased probability of acceptance. So, for candidates in the 2017 cycle who have not yet applied, do so now. You have nothing to lose. For those who have already applied, good on you. Just don't think you have a better chance than your classmate across town simply because he hasn't applied yet.

 

[usna1985]

Read usna1985's post carefully. There are many advantages and reasons for applying early, but none of them include an increased probability of acceptance.

I'm not prepared to go that far. I can't personally -- based on my limited knowledge -- point to evidence that indicates turning your packet in early will increase your likelihood of an appointment.

That doesn't mean such evidence doesn't exist.

 

[Memphis9489]

Getting an LOA does not increase ones chances of admission, it just allows them to be relatively certain sooner that they will be admitted.

Oh, I think it is certainly fair to say that getting an LOA (Letter of Assurance) assures one that they will be admitted.

If your point is that the candidate must still satisfactorily complete his application and gain a nomination - that's true. But that's true for every candidate who is seeking admission, LOA or no LOA. There will be many candidates who satisfactorily complete their application, gain a nomination, and will not receive an appointment - not a single member of that unfortunate group will have earned an LOA.

 

[Prep]

Background information

Mr. AJM7680,

I am sorry but I think my earlier posting got lost in the shuffle. I went to
a service academy days information session. All of the service academies had
liaisons or officers there. Without exception each liaison or officer stated
that you should get your service academy applications in as early as
possible to increase your odds of admittance. Your viewpoint is directly
opposite of what these officers and liaisons were stating. Can you please
tell me how you are affiliated with a service academy with regards to the
current application process? Where do you get your information if you beg my
pardon for asking. It is radically different from what I have heard every
single admission officer state. I mean no disrespect by this AJM7680. Thank
you in advance for your response.

 

[Memphis9489]

If there are "advantages" to finishing early, but those "advantages" have nothing to do with increasing your chances of admission - then how can it possibly be characterized as an "advantage"?

That's like having the goal of losing weight and somebody telling you it is advantageous to do "this" or "that". Then you ask, "Will that help me lose weight?" and they answer, "No, but it would be advantageous." That makes no sense!

 

[AJM7680]

Mr. AJM7680,

I am sorry but I think my earlier posting got lost in the shuffle. I went to
a service academy days information session. All of the service academies had
liaisons or officers there. Without exception each liaison or officer stated
that you should get your service academy applications in as early as
possible to increase your odds of admittance. Your viewpoint is directly
opposite of what these officers and liaisons were stating. Can you please
tell me how you are affiliated with a service academy with regards to the
current application process? Where do you get your information if you beg my
pardon for asking. It is radically different from what I have heard every
single admission officer state. I mean no disrespect by this AJM7680. Thank
you in advance for your response.

Prep, Yes. Sorry, I didn't see it. Carefully read US Code Title 10 as it applies to selection of candidates to the US Naval Academy. Then read it again. And probably very carefully a third time. Understand the meaning of “most competitive”. Understand the meaning of “selected by order of merit”. Understand how the WPM system developed by the academies is used to satisfy these criteria. Also, use the ‘search’ function on this forum to further understand the WPM system and how records are routed through CGO and the Board. It is well documented.

Next, go out and find a Naval Officer who has sat on any selection board. Ask him about the awesome responsibility it entails making decisions that affected other peoples careers and lives. Ask him about the measures that his board developed before they interviewed the first package to ensure impartiality. Ask him about the same preparation to ensure standardization. Then ask him what would happen should there develop the slightest hint that the board had not spent sufficient time to properly evaluate each and evey record. Ask him what would happen had the board set arbitrary restrictions above and beyond those demanded by the presiding rules and regulations. Understand why he would tell you that the board would be dismantled for improprieties and a new board assigned and convened. Ask him what would happen to his career if he was in charge of a board that failed to meet its due charge.

Once you have understood the significance of both paragraphs one and two above, understood the law and standard Naval operating procedure, you will be able to replace me in my discussion. You will know as much as I do. It is really very straight forward.

 

[AJM7680]

Oh, I think it is certainly fair to say that getting an LOA (Letter of Assurance) assures one that they will be admitted.

Almost certainly true. But for the LOA to be deemed an advantage in gaining admission, we would have to state that had that same candidate not received an LOA because he submitted his package later in the cycle, he would no have received an appointment. If we understand the WPM system, we know this is not true.

If your point is that the candidate must still satisfactorily complete his application and gain a nomination - that's true. But that's true for every candidate who is seeking admission, LOA or no LOA. There will be many candidates who satisfactorily complete their application, gain a nomination, and will not receive an appointment - not a single member of that unfortunate group will have earned an LOA.

Each and every candidate will, when all is said and done, with very few unique exceptions, receive an appointment based on either their WPM ranking or for a few, because they were selected as a principal nominee by their MOC, irregardless of whether they received an LOA or not. LOAs, by definition, go to the highly qualified. Its sole purpose is early notification.

If there are "advantages" to finishing early, but those "advantages" have nothing to do with increasing your chances of admission - then how can it possibly be characterized as an "advantage"?

That's like having the goal of losing weight and somebody telling you it is advantageous to do "this" or "that". Then you ask, "Will that help me lose weight?" and they answer, "No, but it would be advantageous." That makes no sense!

I tend to agree with you, but for some, knowing that the Academy wants you (LOA) is an advantage. Early applicants will get the DoDMERB process started sooner. It will be completed regardless, but the early submitter will perhaps not feel the harried pressure that might happen for a later submittal. The waiver process will only start when the Academy determines that they intend to offer an appointment so for those with medical issues who don't have an LOA, it might still be right up until the last minute. usna1985 gave a pretty good list of 'advantages', both to the academy and to the individual.

 

[Prep]

I have it relatively worked out until you state that each person is based on
WPM ranking within a national pool or compared nationally. They are NOT. It
is my understanding, that really all you are competing against is your slate
of 10. In other words you are not racked and stacked nationally-only within
one of the two state slates or the one representative slate. So therefore
you could have a significantly higher WPM from a competitive area and be in
second place on a competitive slate (how most MOC's do this) compared to the
slate in a noncompetitive area where the competitive winner has a FAR lower
WPM. Therefore trying to get there early and get that LOA would invariably
help your chance of admission.

 

[AJM7680]

I have it relatively worked out until you state that each person is based on
WPM ranking within a national pool or compared nationally. They are NOT.It
is my understanding, that really all you are competing against is your slate
of 10. In other words you are not racked and stacked nationally-only within
one of the two state slates or the one representative slate. So therefore
you could have a significantly higher WPM from a competitive area and be in
second place on a competitive slate (how most MOC's do this) compared to the
slate in a noncompetitive area where the competitive winner has a FAR lower
WPM.

I don't think I said this. At least I hope I didn't. If I did, point it out so I can retract it. All appointments with a few specific exceptions not worth discussing, except for a MOC principal, are in fact based on WPMs. The Presidentials are stacked by WPM, the waiting list is stacked by WPM, and the competitive MOC slates are stacked by WPM.

Therefore trying to get there early and get that LOA would invariably
help your chance of admission.

Not quite following your logic on this. An LOA will not, in any way, help you with a MOC slate. A principal slate will go to the individual designated by the MOC. A competitive slate will select the candidate with the highest WPM. If it is the LOA, so be it. If it is not the LOA, the LOA goes to the national pool where, by definition, someone with his total WPM score will be selected. If you read US Code Title 10, you will not find a single mention of LOA. LOAs were contrived by the academies to compete with early admissions. LOAs must still fall within the framework of the US Code. Again, understand 'most competitive' for competitive MOC lists and 'order of merit' for the waiting list.