If you had a choice between recoupment and enlistment?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Gojira, Jan 20, 2012.

  1. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    What would you do?

    Recoupment for $25,000 - or less? Most of us would probably opt to pay it back.

    Recoupment for $100,000 or more - much bigger deal. I have seen while googling these cases, that there are recoupment plans that are 10 years long. I have also seen DFAS asking to settle the bill in a month or 3 years.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Ofcourse the first choice would be to not get into a situation that would require you to recoup the scholarship.

    The larger point is that the cadet has no say in which one will happen, if your talking AROTC it is the Army that decides for you, I believe the other services are the same.

    Given that the military is in the process of downsizing there will probably be more cadets that would be required to pay back the scholarship rather then enlist. If the cadet does something stupid, legal or moral issues, they will find it harder these days to get a waiver to have the chance to enlist.

    To answer your question, it would depend on the major I had, what the job prospects were and whether I could get a job that would allow me to pay the money back. My first thought would be to enlist and leave my term of service debt free. Remember the choice is not yours to make.
     
  3. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    As Jcleppe said, it depends on my major and the job opportunities in the civilian world. Am I allowed to go NG/Reserves?

    For the army I rather pay it back than enlist, but for AF/Navy I would be more open for service time depending on the list of jobs they gave me, or if they just put me in one. The army gave my buddy a choice between a 3-4 MOSs when he dropped ROTC (infantry, truck driver and combat engineer I believe). In the end though it's not my decision.
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Hi gojira. Hope it hasn't definitely come to this yet. In general I agree with jcleppe on courses of action. Clearly the actual amount would make a difference. Also job prospects and when repayment or service would start. I would hope that neither would start before DS graduates.
     
  5. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    Yes, it has come to this.

    And it turns out that enlistment isn't being offered to anyone in NROTC who is disenrolled according to unit.

    Sending an appeal in. Hoping Naval Command overturns it and commission is restored. Otherwise, this kid is going to be in debt for a very, very long time (around $150K).
     
  6. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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  7. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    You know, this is starting to really bother me.

    Army: If a cadet in his/her fourth year isn't up to the standards desired for Active Duty, they may go Reserves or Guard. There isn't the issue of paying back the tuition/fees/books/stipend the Army already paid out for the cadet.

    Air Force: I thought it was rough that approx. 45% of AFROTC cadets last year were disenrolled (with payback of benefits)at the end of Sophomore year. But that is less severe than this instant case.

    Navy: this is the first I've heard of a mid who met academic, fitness, and conduct standards who will have to repay four years of private college tuition/fees/books/stipend in his last semester of school.

    Of those three, looks like the Army is the only one that doesn't force-disenroll an officer-in-training and ask for recoupment of all invested money. At least I haven't heard of this yet from AROTC.
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    OMG! He might be able to pay that off over 20-30 years but its inconceivable to me to do it any quicker. This seems wrong to me for someone who met the posted standards. Perhaps he didn't excel the way the cadre thought he should or could; but nevertheless, if he met the posted standards and they toss him for no other reason it just seems wrong, Unless, of course, there is some other thing going on we are both unaware of. Good Luck with the appeal.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    The Army can do just what the Navy does and they have, Fail your APFT, Miss the Height/Weight in your last semester and your out, and yes they require you to either pay back all the money or go enlisted....reserves is not an option. On top of that any run ins with legal issues....DUI and others and your out with full repayment due. Fail LDAC and the same happens. The Army is not Immune to this at all.
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    jcleppe -- I didn't mean if a cadet doesn't meet the standard.... I meant if they DO meet the standards, which is implied by OP. Have you heard of a contracted cadet who met APFT, LDAC, Academic, Conduct, and participation standards in AROTC that was force disenrolled?

    I have read on this Board of a few Naval Academy commissioned officers who were, a few months after graduation I believe in 2009, informed that here was no room in Pensacola for them, and were relieved of their 5 year Active Duty obligation... no payback involved.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Yes, a contracted SMP cadet was told not to return to the AROTC program this semester at my son's school. The cadet was a junior MS3 and contracted. This cadet was within APFT and grade standards but was not well regarded by the cadet leadership or the cadre, attitude adjustment was sorely needed. The cadet was removed form the program and will continue with his National Guard obligation.
     
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Attached is what Gojira posted in another thread. If there is not more to the story this is BS and I have not heard of the Army doing this if one is meeting minimum standards.

     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    It has happened and will probably be happening more in the future, I posted an example above. Granted the cadet would have to have some serious issues I would think to be removed while meeting the grade and APFT standards, but it does happen.
     
  14. mgguy

    mgguy Member

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    this is just plain wrong-something is not adding up. I could not let my son take a scholarship at a high priced college if this would be hanging over his head..I can understand (somewhat) if my son would screw up...but not if he was within the guidelines. Far better to take the Merit scholarship money and just join the ROTC on campus. To be 21 years old and in debt for 150k is just unthinkable. I would be calling my congressman.
     
  15. Packer

    Packer Member

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    This would make sense but otherwise no. If the commander just decides not suited for military service one has to ask why did this not come up until the last semester.
     
  16. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    I am happy to pm the specifics of anyone about what was the reason for disenrollment. I don't want them public on this forum in case it interferes with his case.

    The reason listed on his disenrollment was something that surprised him. It wasn't drinking or an arrest or anything. When he gave me the news over the phone, it seemed like it was a bogus reason. In another time, as others have posted, it wouldn't have been a disenroll, but get it together and commission and deal with the defecit after beginning active duty.

    My son was a minor when entering the program. When he signed those papers we never saw them. In fact, they were not part of his file when he was disenrolled. I have only seen some of the contracts through extensive googling. I would strongly advise parents to read through the contract, figure out what is the worst possible outcome and then hammer into their sons and daughters our story.

    If I wasn't part of it, I would have said that this could happen.

    I also believe that personalities in command can enter into the decisionmaking process about quality of applicant. In ROTC, people come and go, just as they do in the actual military. Realizing that being political savvy will go a long way - which I do not believe my son understood, as he does now.

    Get good grades, perform well on every evaluation, including weight and PT, keep your lips sealed, do your volunteer hours for the unit, prove your worth to the command. If you do, you will likely do well. If you miss up on something, it might go badly.
     
  17. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    Packer,

    Ding ding! You have a winner.

    It's the question we are also asking ourselves. Why did they wait if he was unsuitable in eyes of command? If he was unsuitable, why wait until the last minute?
     
  18. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    Also - we are doing everything we can to resolve this issue, either through a reversal by the Navy so he can commission. We hired an excellent lawyer who has given us good insight and advice about this situation.

    It does stink, and is very, very frustrating.

    You can't imagine what kind of effect this has on a person who has dreamed about being an officer for most of his life, either. It's discouraging.
     
  19. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I don't believe this is correct. If you are not selected for SFT, and up to that point have met all the requirements of your scholarship, then payback is NOT required.
     
  20. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Good luck, I hope this turns out well in the end for your son.
     

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