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And I assume people have already read about cutting back Navy ships to a 230 ship Navy, that's a step in the right direction.
Impact of past defense cuts should warn of risks
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scoutpilot
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In 24 months I never once saw a black HMMWV. Ever. Where did you see one?
We have equipped the ISF in various ways, but to use the term "give away" makes it sound like it's a free-for-all.
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Friend with 101st. We we were looking though his pictures, had some not great things to say about waste.
Of course, we could always just read DOD IG audits:
http://www.dodig.mil/Audit/reports/fy10/10-035.pdf
Or what would the President say:
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2009/08/17/obama-hammers-defense-establishment/
Or maybe Gates:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10590993
Pima
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LITS, the food court issue needs to be dropped. It is a NAF issue, now granted they may have renovated it, but that is a wear and tear issue, just like anything else in the Pentagon. I can tell you that it has changed over the past 8 yrs (Bullet was assigned there in 02 to 05, and then again starting in 08), but in honesty, to me it is the same in quality, maybe less than the food court across the street at Pentagon Row.
Now, I would go with you, if these food vendors got to plant their company there free of charge, and their employees were DOD employees, but that is not the case.
Walk around at 6 pm and the food court is closed.
Heck, one of the big grievances at the Pentagon is that military members must pay to join the gym. If you are stationed anywhere else, as an AD member that is a perk, but at the Pentagon, you must pay monthly dues, even if you just want to use it to take a shower after running on the mall, you must pay.
There are other little money making things that the Pentagon has their hand in. Did you know that contractors who have parking spaces at the Pentagon, pay for those spots? The Pentagon actually makes money there. We are not talking 30 bucks a month, we are talking thousands of dollars a yr...I believe the current cost is @5K for a space.
Now to one of your links
UMMM...first off, when did our President become a person with military experience, especially fighter planes? If the DOD is looking into an alternate engine, I don't think they are doing this willy nilly. I know from Bullet, and the meetings he sits in on, all they want is the best for the troops.
The 22. Why should they have not closed the pipeline? Our economy is in the tanks, and jobs were lost. Was it right or wrong? I don't know, but I do know there will be many Americans out of work due to the closing of the 22 pipeline.
New airframes, contrary to what our President wants to sell to the avg AMerican, takes yrs, if not a decade to bring on line...you just can't say, let's turn on a dime and reverse the course. Additionally, every airframe has a specific mission, the 22 and 35 are not twins. If we look back from a historical standpoint, prior to Gulf 1, the A-10 was being boneyarded, the AF saw no need for them what so ever because they had the Obama opinion...20 yrs later they are still alive because the AF realized during Gulf 1 they had a huge impact on how we fought the war.
Now, I would go with you, if these food vendors got to plant their company there free of charge, and their employees were DOD employees, but that is not the case.
Walk around at 6 pm and the food court is closed.
Heck, one of the big grievances at the Pentagon is that military members must pay to join the gym. If you are stationed anywhere else, as an AD member that is a perk, but at the Pentagon, you must pay monthly dues, even if you just want to use it to take a shower after running on the mall, you must pay.
There are other little money making things that the Pentagon has their hand in. Did you know that contractors who have parking spaces at the Pentagon, pay for those spots? The Pentagon actually makes money there. We are not talking 30 bucks a month, we are talking thousands of dollars a yr...I believe the current cost is @5K for a space.
Now to one of your links
UMMM...first off, when did our President become a person with military experience, especially fighter planes? If the DOD is looking into an alternate engine, I don't think they are doing this willy nilly. I know from Bullet, and the meetings he sits in on, all they want is the best for the troops.
The 22. Why should they have not closed the pipeline? Our economy is in the tanks, and jobs were lost. Was it right or wrong? I don't know, but I do know there will be many Americans out of work due to the closing of the 22 pipeline.
New airframes, contrary to what our President wants to sell to the avg AMerican, takes yrs, if not a decade to bring on line...you just can't say, let's turn on a dime and reverse the course. Additionally, every airframe has a specific mission, the 22 and 35 are not twins. If we look back from a historical standpoint, prior to Gulf 1, the A-10 was being boneyarded, the AF saw no need for them what so ever because they had the Obama opinion...20 yrs later they are still alive because the AF realized during Gulf 1 they had a huge impact on how we fought the war.
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There is a week long public affairs event twice a year. Each event has a budget that is 50% of a cutters entire annual budget. That's right, 1 week event, non-operational, and it's 50% of a 210' ship's operational budget. That doesn't even include the costs to the individual services.
There is not a department in federal government with facilities like the Pentagon.
The Navy's R&D budget is $20 billion more than the entire Dept. of Homeland Security budget.
There is not a department in federal government with facilities like the Pentagon.
The Navy's R&D budget is $20 billion more than the entire Dept. of Homeland Security budget.
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I can think of a number of AF members who lost their jobs due to F-22 funding.
I liked the shirt of one (under her uniform).... "My job paid for the left wheel of the F-22". Classic. I would with a reservist who was sent packing because of $$. Some of those specialties are being repopulated now, but it's going to take some work.
On a side note, I love A-10s.....almost as much as I love AC-130 gunships.
Pima
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Okay LITS let me get you up and over the fuming part regarding waste. Again, I do agree there is waste, but disagree on some of the places you are targeting.
Bullet is no longer a contractor, but now an AF GS.
1. Due to his AF career, he now gets @ 40 days+ of leave a yr as a GS right out the door, plus comp time...contractor he got 23 days. Now because Obama's administration is reducing contractors and converting them to GS position, our taxpayer dollars are paying for our(Bullet and mine) bennies. I must say that I told Bullet if he ever uses up his 40+ days of leave and comp time expect a divorce, because I may love him, just not enough to have him home with me full time 3 months out of the yr. If you work in the Pentagon, the duty day is 8-4, but everyone knows you actually work at least 7 to 4:30-5:00...comp time tallies quickly. In one week you basically could earn 1 day of comp time....multiply it out, and you could have 90 days off within a yr when you include the original 40.
2. His pay is less when you look at taxable salary, but he now has COLA again, and that is not taxable, which means for us the salary is more since 24% is not taxable. GS 14-15 positions are in the 6 figures, base, and then they get their COLA.
He also gets METRO commuting stipends again, even though he slugs in to the Pentagon...ready for this...we still have his monthly Metro cards from our 1st time here 02-05 that we are using. That is true waste and abuse, because he is not unique, just look at the slug lines at the Pentagon, and you can quickly tally, that they never use their Metro allowance, but just keep getting it because the way the system works. We are talking thousands of dollars per member per yr that goes to what? Keeping the Metro alive because they buy Metro tickets for the military embers while they slug to work which costs nothing? I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly it is @1300 a yr.
3. GS jobs are as close to lifetime positions as you can get, once he passes his probationary point, he is safe, unless he goes off and kills someone
they can't get rid of him.
4. You will love this one...Bullet on the DOD dime attended a conference for 4 days in Annapolis MD. They paid for his hotel, transit and food (per diem). Here's where I see the waste...tell me how far is Annapolis from the Pentagon? I would love anyone who is familiar to the distance between Annapolis and the Pentagon, explain why it could not have been done in Crystal City. Remember this was a joint conference between the military and the contractors, but I would think the Pentagon has enough leverage to say "we want the conference, but our budget won't cover the costs for TDY, thus, let's do it in Crystal City". They didn't, instead they paid out the wazoo.
Bullet is no longer a contractor, but now an AF GS.
1. Due to his AF career, he now gets @ 40 days+ of leave a yr as a GS right out the door, plus comp time...contractor he got 23 days. Now because Obama's administration is reducing contractors and converting them to GS position, our taxpayer dollars are paying for our(Bullet and mine) bennies. I must say that I told Bullet if he ever uses up his 40+ days of leave and comp time expect a divorce, because I may love him, just not enough to have him home with me full time 3 months out of the yr. If you work in the Pentagon, the duty day is 8-4, but everyone knows you actually work at least 7 to 4:30-5:00...comp time tallies quickly. In one week you basically could earn 1 day of comp time....multiply it out, and you could have 90 days off within a yr when you include the original 40.
2. His pay is less when you look at taxable salary, but he now has COLA again, and that is not taxable, which means for us the salary is more since 24% is not taxable. GS 14-15 positions are in the 6 figures, base, and then they get their COLA.
He also gets METRO commuting stipends again, even though he slugs in to the Pentagon...ready for this...we still have his monthly Metro cards from our 1st time here 02-05 that we are using. That is true waste and abuse, because he is not unique, just look at the slug lines at the Pentagon, and you can quickly tally, that they never use their Metro allowance, but just keep getting it because the way the system works. We are talking thousands of dollars per member per yr that goes to what? Keeping the Metro alive because they buy Metro tickets for the military embers while they slug to work which costs nothing? I might be wrong, but if I recall correctly it is @1300 a yr.
3. GS jobs are as close to lifetime positions as you can get, once he passes his probationary point, he is safe, unless he goes off and kills someone
they can't get rid of him.4. You will love this one...Bullet on the DOD dime attended a conference for 4 days in Annapolis MD. They paid for his hotel, transit and food (per diem). Here's where I see the waste...tell me how far is Annapolis from the Pentagon? I would love anyone who is familiar to the distance between Annapolis and the Pentagon, explain why it could not have been done in Crystal City. Remember this was a joint conference between the military and the contractors, but I would think the Pentagon has enough leverage to say "we want the conference, but our budget won't cover the costs for TDY, thus, let's do it in Crystal City". They didn't, instead they paid out the wazoo.
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Or you may ask..... "Why were all of the crews from the air show at Andrews put up at National Harbor in the Gaylord....."
Pima
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Actually if you look at the rates for Gaylord, it is 199 a night, and for DC that is not the Willard, which runs 399 a night.
Additionally, Andrews is the BIG BOY air show in VA/DC/MD. That means the amount of military personnel from other bases will be a lot and every base hotel will be booked out very quickly. For example, the Thunderbirds not only have their pilots, and back up crew, plus the "speaker", they also bring along their own maintenance team. Just them alone, and you are looking at taking up 20 hotel rooms. Now start adding in the crew of the C-5, C-130, C-141, KC-135, F-15, F-15E, F-16, B-52, A-10, T-38, etc and you can figure out that they will be sent off post because there is no room at the inn. You live in DC, I am sure you know 199 for a room at regular rate is not out the door, neither you or I know if the DOD reserved a block of rooms at a lower rate. For all we know it could have cost them 125 a night...I know I paid 199 for one night at a Holiday Inn Express off of exit 152 on 95. My family paid $126 this past June for one night in Manassas.
IMHO opinion it is not waste. Airshows exist not only as goodwill within the community, but also as a recruiting tool. How many candidates have you seen on this board who says, I wanted to be in XYZ branch since I was 10? A ton, and why do they say that? Because when they were younger they attended Air Shows. Additionally, it is what everyone in the military calls a "good deal". it creates positive morale, because they get to go on a fun TDY...in other words it is like the flyovers at every SA before the start of a football game. If a military member with experience is happy, than the chances of them resigning are greatly reduced. From a corporate standpoint, that is something you strive for because getting someone else up to speed costs a lot of money from a training issue.
Additionally, Andrews is the BIG BOY air show in VA/DC/MD. That means the amount of military personnel from other bases will be a lot and every base hotel will be booked out very quickly. For example, the Thunderbirds not only have their pilots, and back up crew, plus the "speaker", they also bring along their own maintenance team. Just them alone, and you are looking at taking up 20 hotel rooms. Now start adding in the crew of the C-5, C-130, C-141, KC-135, F-15, F-15E, F-16, B-52, A-10, T-38, etc and you can figure out that they will be sent off post because there is no room at the inn. You live in DC, I am sure you know 199 for a room at regular rate is not out the door, neither you or I know if the DOD reserved a block of rooms at a lower rate. For all we know it could have cost them 125 a night...I know I paid 199 for one night at a Holiday Inn Express off of exit 152 on 95. My family paid $126 this past June for one night in Manassas.
IMHO opinion it is not waste. Airshows exist not only as goodwill within the community, but also as a recruiting tool. How many candidates have you seen on this board who says, I wanted to be in XYZ branch since I was 10? A ton, and why do they say that? Because when they were younger they attended Air Shows. Additionally, it is what everyone in the military calls a "good deal". it creates positive morale, because they get to go on a fun TDY...in other words it is like the flyovers at every SA before the start of a football game. If a military member with experience is happy, than the chances of them resigning are greatly reduced. From a corporate standpoint, that is something you strive for because getting someone else up to speed costs a lot of money from a training issue.
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All booking went through the program, and was paid for by DoD...individual commands coordinated through one source.
Just_A_Mom
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Here is one possible cut - military bands:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/23/AR2010082304711.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/23/AR2010082304711.html
scoutpilot
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This is going to blow some minds, but maybe we should simply stop invading other countries, especially when the intel is flimsy? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? That saves a hell of a lot more money than pawning some trumpets.
Or maybe we should stop letting each service by their own special cool-guy camo patterns.
Or maybe we should divest the coast guard to DHS
.
Lots and lots of straw man arguments here in this thread, from TVs to food courts to things that were supposedly "given away."
The problem is the same as it has always been. America wants the world's best military, but doesn't want to pay for the world's best military. It's a cheap son of a ***** who will happily send someone else's kid to Afghanistan or Iraq and then ***** about how much it costs to feed them decent chow.
Or maybe we should stop letting each service by their own special cool-guy camo patterns.
Or maybe we should divest the coast guard to DHS
.Lots and lots of straw man arguments here in this thread, from TVs to food courts to things that were supposedly "given away."
The problem is the same as it has always been. America wants the world's best military, but doesn't want to pay for the world's best military. It's a cheap son of a ***** who will happily send someone else's kid to Afghanistan or Iraq and then ***** about how much it costs to feed them decent chow.
Pima
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If you live in DC, you know that these bands perform all summer long on the Mall. Again a great morale booster and recruiting tool.
Are they a waste from a fiscal standpoint, probably, but their purpose does not exist to fight wars.
Anyone who has ever had the pleasure to hear the 82nd All American Chorus, would be the first to say don't do it, Then again, the 82nd members are also AD, who will return to an operational assignment after that tour.
When you see them walk in, in formation and start off with 1 MINUUUTE, and then go into Here we go, all the way...nothing else in this world can explain the chills you will feel.
20 yrs as an AD wife, in the AF, that one night at the ARMY Mil Ball when I heard them, was the moment I said OMG WOW. Not because their voices were incredible, but because emotionally you wanted to sign up there and then, your whole perspective changed and how you viewed Jumpers. It was truly awe inspiring. So much so, I bought their CD and as we drove out of Fayetteville, with our car loaded, I hit the CD to play Here we go A Capella by the 82nd.
Are they a waste from a fiscal standpoint, probably, but their purpose does not exist to fight wars.
Anyone who has ever had the pleasure to hear the 82nd All American Chorus, would be the first to say don't do it, Then again, the 82nd members are also AD, who will return to an operational assignment after that tour.
When you see them walk in, in formation and start off with 1 MINUUUTE, and then go into Here we go, all the way...nothing else in this world can explain the chills you will feel.
20 yrs as an AD wife, in the AF, that one night at the ARMY Mil Ball when I heard them, was the moment I said OMG WOW. Not because their voices were incredible, but because emotionally you wanted to sign up there and then, your whole perspective changed and how you viewed Jumpers. It was truly awe inspiring. So much so, I bought their CD and as we drove out of Fayetteville, with our car loaded, I hit the CD to play Here we go A Capella by the 82nd.
fly boy
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Are you asking for specific examples? What do you mean does the DoD track spending? Are you thinking that they do or that they don't?
fly boy
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You scare me.
How is that scary?
fly boy
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What moral ethical debate? I know this is way off topic, but is it wrong to practice corporal punishment on someone who has murdered someone?
fly boy
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Whatever. Is that what you have to resort to?
hornetguy
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What I have to resort to? HAHAHA. It was meant to be humorous, but since you are all bent up about my disagreement on executions, so be it. Really though, it will be more impressive to admissions and ALOs if you use proper English. I've only seen one example of a split infinitive where no one minds - "to boldly go where no....." Thanks Picard!
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What I have to resort to? HAHAHA. It was meant to be humorous, but since you are all bent up about my disagreement on executions, so be it. Really though, it will be more impressive to admissions and ALOs if you use proper English. I've only seen one example of a split infinitive where no one minds - "to boldly go where no....." Thanks Picard!
Uh, Hornet...check Hulu or someplace...
That actually would be James Tiberius Kirk...Picard came MUCH later.
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83