Impact of past defense cuts should warn of risks

Just murdered the English-language as well. Split infinitives. Ew. "...they mercifully could be executed." Or, "...they could be executed mercifully..."

YESSIR! Why did you feel the need to post that?

Oh, so now my comment on getting back to the topic is suddenly unnecessary, while your first one was? HAHA. Talk about humor!
 
We're going to ignore the vehicles units give away correct?

Heck walk through the Pentagon to see where the money goes. It has a brand new food court that would put any mall in America to shame. All while other areas have to dig for $$. They give out chocolate samples at the Metro entrance....:eek:

And we don't even need to bring up the billions that are unaccounted for in Afghanistan and Iraq. Where was that article (WAPO or NYT....can you tell I'm a WSJ kind of person).

"end of the FY....time for all the SESs to buy 60" flat screens so they can keep their budgets for the next FY."

Anyhow, scoutpilot, there are plenty of instances of waste, such as the ones cited above. Also, at my dad's work (he works on base) His unit had around $50,000 left near the end of the fiscal year. So, in order to not get their budgets cut for the next FY, his guys wanted to use it to replace the furniture in the shop that was less than two years old (and, I might add, still in style... I think). That's just one instance. Oh, and should I mention all the money spent flying Air Force One around to all of the presidents' vacation spots (that is correct English because I'm not just speaking of the current president.)
 
Anyhow, scoutpilot, there are plenty of instances of waste, such as the ones cited above. Also, at my dad's work (he works on base) His unit had around $50,000 left near the end of the fiscal year. So, in order to not get their budgets cut for the next FY, his guys wanted to use it to replace the furniture in the shop that was less than two years old (and, I might add, still in style... I think). That's just one instance. Oh, and should I mention all the money spent flying Air Force One around to all of the presidents' vacation spots (that is correct English because I'm not just speaking of the current president.)

If you read carefully what I asked, you'll note that I wanted to know the following:

"What instances of waste and inefficiency have you witnessed? How does the DoD track spending?"

So for one, show me some real instances of large-scale DoD waste. Some guys WANTED to spend $50k on furniture. Did they? If they did, tell me what you know about the fate of the furniture they had. I can tell you what happened to it if they did indeed by new furniture. Can you?

Secondly, and more to the point, you made the statement "If DoD, like LITS said, would track spending..."

Tell me how the DoD accounts for its money down to the unit level. I'm interested in your knowledge and expertise on this subject.
 
Oh, and should I mention all the money spent flying Air Force One around to all of the presidents' vacation spots (that is correct English because I'm not just speaking of the current president.)

I suppose he should take Southwest to save some money? Bags fly free, after all. Maybe he should take United, as long as he tells them he's the CiC of the military and not of the Coast Guard, his bags will fly free with them, too!
 
Steve-
...
Also bear in mind, that most of these individuals will also be in a "Low level Deputy" position with starting pay around $119,000 to $122, 000
:rolleyes:
Hmm...that doesn't sound bad at all...

Of course, CinC House would most assuredly VETO that move...

Oh well...I have a good civvie job...but "cutting edge" it isn't.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
An O-6 in Sodom-on-Potomac "...most probably" gets hired as an SES-1?

3 out of 3 of our friends that retired here as an O6 got SES. However, they did have very unique jobs at the Pentagon which made them very attractive to other agencies. None of them work at the Pentagon per se, but all of them visit the puzzle palace quite frequently. One works on the Hill, one works in Crystal City(he was in Skunk works as an AD), and one works for Homeland. Like I have been trying to get across, it is what assets you bring to the table that matters, just because you are an O6 doesn't mean you would even be offered a GS14 position. Currently, we have a friend who just PCS to the Pentagon, he is an O6. The problem for him is his resume. He played the game of follow the breadcrumbs* to get that O6 position, now that he is coming up for retirement he has no "unique" qualifications to make him competitive in the GS or contracting world. Also, this is his 1st tour here, he saw the Pentagon as the plague. People who start thinking about retirement at an earlier marker know that coming here stinks, but the connections you make can be a great resume builder in the future. I.E. Bullet punched at the 1st opportunity because 2 yrs after leaving here, his old bosses that retired and went to the dark side called him and offered him a job, he had an offer 1 yr out before retirement, and 3 in the end to chose from 2 months prior. He retired an had the job in hand, with salary and compensation package. Just being an O6 is not enough, you have to have something incredibly rare in your resume. O6 staff position to a 4 star is one thing, (plain)...O6 Commander of Skunks or JROC totally different.

*breadcrumbs = took jobs to get promoted, regardless of the position...high vis was all that mattered. Promotion to the next rank was all that mattered, short term vision, even within the AF, because now he is not even competitive for a 1 star and he knows it.

I also agree with TPG, you do work a 50 hr week+ and then you have the commute on top of that, even from 5 miles away can be 2 hours in your day. If you ever get to this area you'd be amazed to see the traffic on 66/95/395/495 (all the major roads) at 6 a.m...it is bumper to bumper and you go about 10 miles an hour unless you are picking up slugs and do the HOV. I would say Bullet is gone from our home @12 hrs a day, and that is a slow work day with him stepping out early (4:45).

High up GS positions are not for those that want an 8-4 job. Duty day at the Pentagon starts at 8, but if you are not at your desk by 7-7:15 you are the slacker. It ends at 4, but in the 2 yrs here, and the 3 yrs the last time (02-05), I don't think Bullet ever left the office before 4:30, and probably it was always 5 at the earliest. Thus, your work week is 50 hrs and most people bring their lunch because they spend their days running from meeting to meeting or putting out fires at their desk, that they don't have the time to eat at the amazing Food Court LITS was talking about...at least that has been what I have seen through personal vision among my family and friends.

TPG, I think your scale is off, unless you mean base pay, because that is less than a GS 15 with locality pay. If so, than I agree with those numbers because locality pay here is @25%, and then that makes sense, but if not it is low.
 
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Some guys WANTED to spend $50k on furniture. Did they? If they did, tell me what you know about the fate of the furniture they had. I can tell you what happened to it if they did indeed by new furniture. Can you?

A couple of things, first if you need the hammer to tell you and for other posters, what Scout was implying, it was sold via DRMO. They did not throw it in a dumpster or give it to Goodwill. They actually recuperate some of the money via DRMO. The same is true for when they renovate dorms, TLFs, and basically anything that has out lasted the military life that they determine.


Also, at my dad's work (he works on base) His unit had around $50,000 left near the end of the fiscal year. So, in order to not get their budgets cut for the next FY, his guys wanted to use it to replace the furniture in the shop that was less than two years old

I am not going to deny it, this crap happens, HOWEVER, every commander is given a discretionary budget. This money was not tagged for operational purposes, it was tagged for discretionary things. I have seen it been abuse by commanders like you have mentioned, because to them they want the squadron to be their "show piece". I have seen it been used because "they had to" since what was placed there had issues, like not being to code for federal reasons, i.e. health and safety.

As a spouse who has been in many, many, many squadrons and furnished multiple homes, I am sorry I don't bite off on 50K in furniture. Do you know how much crap you'd have to buy to tally 50K...in essence, it would be not only be furniture, but flooring, wall art, trash cans, or in other words every single piece in the squadron would be replaced from top to bottom. I think that 50K is akin to you should have seen the size of the fish I hooked! It just keeps getting bigger and bigger everytime it is told.

Oh, and should I mention all the money spent flying Air Force One around to all of the presidents' vacation spots

I do agree that flying the President and First Lady to NYC for a night out on the town was over the top when people in the country are hurting fiscally, BUT like Scout stated did you expect them to fly Southwest?

OBTW, Barbara Bush, had your same opinion, and wanted to fly commercial, because in her mind, she was not the President. SS changed that view by showing her that her way would be more expensive due to security reasons than using the AF. She relented and flew AF to save tax payer dollars. Presidential families are targets. She is IMHO a neat lady...afterall she wears fake pearls, and non-matching Ked sneakers. Her Keds don't match because as First Lady people sent her so many prs as gifts, that to honor their gift she mis-matched them so she can wear at least one from the people who sent them. Ask your Mom, I bet she can tell you in the 90's 3 strand fake pearls and Keds were the rage in fashion.

NO President is ever on vacation like us peons. Even during their vacations they are still working. It only makes news because they are followed by he media.

Think about the cost it would be to taxpayers if they flew commercially, it would be much more than flying AF1 from a security standpoint. That is why AF1 exists.


Now, if you want to talk about waste of tax dollars...during the Carter administration, when he told Americans to wear sweaters to stay warm because of the energy crisis, his DD was swimming in a heated indoor pool at Camp David.
 
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...just because you are an O6 doesn't mean you would even be offered a GS14 position. Currently, we have a friend who just PCS to the Pentagon, he is an O6. The problem for him is his resume. He played the game of follow the breadcrumbs* to get that O6 position, now that he is coming up for retirement he has no "unique" qualifications to make him competitive in the GS or contracting world.

And well I know it!

That's the "one benefit" I've had from going from EAD to AFRC...I've worked in contracting with the gov't, engineering, sales/marketing on an international executive level, etc...

But now...I train pilots, run an AFRC unit, and enjoy the heck outta working with "kids" interested in becoming AF officers!

I'm content. Of course it helps to have a spouse that is:

a. MUCH smarter than I
b. MUCH more talented than I
c. Makes a BOATLOAD more money than I
d. Still takes the drug that says "I really still want to be with him..." :wow:

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
That's the "one benefit" I've had from going from EAD to AFRC...I've worked in contracting with the gov't, engineering, sales/marketing on an international executive level, etc...

That's a point I want to express to new officers. You need to look at both the short term and the long term when you decide on your next assignment.

Short term (military career) that assignment can be great, but long term (post the ripe old age of 42+) you could have shot yourself in the foot because from the contracting or govt world you are not competitive. It becomes even more tenuous when you may be forced to decide between a command and moving your hs child 3 times while they are in hs.

I will not apologize for feeling that the USA Today article was slanted. GS salaries are not out the door like Bell California. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...lary-in-city-of-38-000-triggers-protests.html
It was the first council meeting since the Los Angeles Times reported July 15 that Chief Administrative Officer Robert Rizzo earns $787,637 -- with annual 12 percent raises -- and that Bell pays its police chief $457,000, more than Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck makes in a city of 3.8 million people. Bell council members earn almost $100,000 for part-time work.

I don't see waste in the pay scale for GS employees that USA Today wants the readers to believe. How is 135K for an employee with a Masters and 20 yrs work experience extreme? USA Today wanted their readers to believe that all govt employees made that amount. A GS1 (18 yr old hs grad) makes 17K, I am thinking that flipping Burgers at Burger King full time in DC area would make that same amount. Our DD who worked this summer made 8 bucks an hr part time + tips!

I have a personal knowledge of a back story with a high Gannett executive, and to me, this article was more of personal animosity than anything else. Scootergate - 90th FW involved a DD (LT.) of that employee. It made so much noise in the media that 60 Minutes covered the story. Reality is we can all slant anything to fit our own personal beliefs.

This is what they did IMHO. They wanted to slant the story that federal employees are being paid outrageous salaries compared to civilian employees. No where in their article did they say a GS1 make 17K a yr. They also want to make readers believe that they do not pay their fair share of taxes. No where in their article did they say govt employees pay taxes at the same rate as civilian employees...instead the insinuated that with the growing fed govt, more tax dollars would be spent to support it...YEP, that is true, but OBTW, that govt employee also pays taxes.

Full disclosure, I am pro private business, and anti-big govt. I do not agree from an economic stand point, but I accept that this view is widely accepted ...big govt.

The irony is if you think about it...just like the military, these employees are actually paying themselves through their Federal taxes. In other words, they get less out of the system then the person who is employed by a civilian company! The civilian employee gets to sleep safe at night knowing that the military is protecting them without ever putting their arse on the line! The military member or GS employee pays the same amount as them, but...complete the sentence!


Reduce the GS salary, but here's the question for you when you demand that they spend less...do you want the employee that is less qualified willing to take the lower salary deciding the upgrade for the latest tank, ship or aircraft? Or would you rather spend more money for the most qualified, who would have gone Lockheed, Grumman, etc because they have their own family to feed and support, to insure that our troops had the best employee? Your choice, but than again, that is also your tax dollars. The govt decided they wanted the latter and know that the only way to do it in an open market society is to meet the salary private companies pay.
 
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Well, since some have gone in this direction, I'll add this: Obama, after trashing the tourism industry in Vegas, tried to back off that rhetoric with this quote: "When things are tough, American's need to tighten their belts" Last week (as we all know) he booked his sixth, 10 day vacation, in Martha's Vineyard at a $50,000 a week house? I'd like him to show a little common sense, not ask him to fly Southwest. :biggrin:
 
I suppose he should take Southwest to save some money? Bags fly free, after all. Maybe he should take United, as long as he tells them he's the CiC of the military and not of the Coast Guard, his bags will fly free with them, too!

That's a good idea! Anyhow, I never pretended or claimed to be an expert. As for the furniture issue, it had to go through my dad, and he didn't let it. They had to sit on slightly used couches instead of brand new ones. Oh, the horrors! :rolleyes:
 
A couple of things, first if you need the hammer to tell you and for other posters, what Scout was implying, it was sold via DRMO. They did not throw it in a dumpster or give it to Goodwill. They actually recuperate some of the money via DRMO. The same is true for when they renovate dorms, TLFs, and basically anything that has out lasted the military life that they determine.


I think that 50K is akin to you should have seen the size of the fish I hooked! It just keeps getting bigger and bigger everytime it is told.


I do agree that flying the President and First Lady to NYC for a night out on the town was over the top when people in the country are hurting fiscally, BUT like Scout stated did you expect them to fly Southwest?


NO President is ever on vacation like us peons. Even during their vacations they are still working. It only makes news because they are followed by he media.

Firstly, here at Hill, last I heard, they're getting rid of the DRMO or something like that.
FYI, the story is not blown up, it was given to me first hand.
Also, I'm not expecting them to fly Southwest, just maybe cut back a little. I have no objections to them flying AF1 for their vacations, it's just that it seems that they're always on vacation, going to Spain, or the Bahamas, or Mars, or wherever. Of course, when they do go on vacation, their security is important, just maybe go less.
 
Last week (as we all know) he booked his sixth, 10 day vacation, in Martha's Vineyard at a $50,000 a week house? I'd like him to show a little common sense, not ask him to fly Southwest. :biggrin:

Don't worry, money was still being spent at the White House even while he wasn't there. The President had to leave the White House while the Oval Office was being "remodeled" - new carpets, drapery, painting, etc - so it would be ready for his national address tomorrow evening.
 
Flyboy,

Obviously the commander of the squadron did not not get it, thus the system worked and no waste occurred.

As I said this type of stuff occurs. Yrs ago when Skeletor (McPeak) was CSAF he visited RAF Upper Heyford. He was Wing King there earlier in his career, and was in a foul mood because as he was touring the base he kept asking where the F are my trees? He had planted 50 trees as King, and in between the time, somebody came behind him and removed the 50 trees. Now that was waste and abuse. He then turned to the wing king and ordered him to replant the 50 trees, even knowing that Heyford was on the closure list AND to do this when the AF was going through a RIF. Talk about ticking off AF personnel. "Sorry, we need to let some of you go, but watch us plant 50 trees because of Skeletor".

This man was also the one that wasted money on designing a new flight suit. You know the famous one with pockets that were actually just zippers and the seam that every officer took a seam ripper to. It had a very short life because the next CSAF canned them and had them redesigned to look pre-Skeletor.

He also created the bus driver blues, that had the same fate as the flight suit.

As far as the Obama's I think that they do abuse the perks of their position, however, for every point there will be a counterpoint regarding Bush 43. To me the worst offender is Michelle Obama. Here are a couple of her wastes that people never hear of via media coverage.

1.Sent Valerie Jarret to NYC for fashion week and put her up in the 4 Seasons. C'mon, do you not think if Michelle Obama called Vera Wang, Vera Wang wouldn't take the train from NYC to the WH to design something for the 1st Lady? There was no need for Americans to foot that bill. This was pure waste and abuse! I am sick and tired of she is in touch with common woman because she wears J Crew. Yep, so in touch with them she also wore $750 sneakers with her J Crew cardigan.

2. Michael Smith was their interior designer for the WH. The irony is this is the person that charged 27K for the famous shower curtains, where our President called the Wall Street CEO out on this during the campaign trail for excess. However, that's the guy they employed to renovate/decorate their personal quarters. MSM seemed to ignore that while they were glowing about how this couple is down to earth because Michelle wears J Crew and likes Pottery Barn.

3. Forced upon DC a Thursday night Farmers Market. This market closes down a main thorough fare during rush hour. Now only person who lives in DC can tell you commuting is bad enough, but now you are purposely closing a road for an organic market where they sell organic mushrooms at 12 bucks a container during an economic downturn.

4. Started her own green garden. Here's the irony. Hillary did that too, but because they did it to show they were green, the garden was put in the wrong place and had a septic issue. Michelle didn't start the 1st organic garden, she just got to claim it because the 1st organic garden had to be moved and re-designed. The Obama's made sure they had great media coverage on this, even to the point that they had a Top Chef Masters episode highlighting the garden.

5. Then there is their weekly Wednesday night happy hour that they host at the WH. To me that is a waste beyond any measure that we as tax payers pick up. Think about how much it costs in not only food and booze, but man power hours to cater this event weekly.

So the AF flying 10 times in 21 months thing is not as big as the little things that go unnoticed by tax payers which we foot the bill for everyday. I mean the play ground they put in for the girls was not free. Now before you attack me on that let's remember the WH has a bowling alley, tennis courts, pool, basketball, track, etc on the grounds. It is not like the girls had nothing else to keep themselves amused AND any parent with children know, you put one of those things up and for the 1st week they play on it, but after that it is nothing, but an outside dust collector. From a parent who has had one, I can tell you that thing they put in was in the 10's of thousands...this was not the one you buy at Lowe's.

Also, if I am correct the Obama's personally pay for that house on the Vineyard. No tax dollars go towards the cost. Of course, I am sure like Clinton and Nixon, the house may rent for 50K, but it is probably lent to the Obamas by the owner of the home. The owner does this for multiple reasons...one...it now makes it the "in" home to potential renters...two...they probably can write it off as a loss. Anyone owning that type of home is looking more for tax write offs than earning more income regarding their taxes.
 
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4. Then there is their weekly Wednesday night happy hour that they host at the WH. To me that is a waste beyond any measure that we as tax payers pick up.

FYI - Taxpayers do not pay for the President's (and his family) food & drink - he receives a bill every month.
 
Luigi,

YES, but...

1. Just like Flag officers and Wing Commanders, they are expected to attend/host social functions, thus, they get an "entertainment" allowance. This is something every taxpayer pays for, it is just hidden in the budget.

2. The guests at these functions are not their room mates per se from Princeton or Columbia, they are movers and shakers in the DC area. Thus, it is not personal it is seen as business, which brings it back to point 1 that the cost is now placed under "cost of doing business.

I highly doubt when Obama goes to Ben's Chili or 5 guys, he is footing the bill. This also again is how the Obama's play an image for the MSM to glob onto, but quietly do the exact opposite when the MSM is not around. Ben's and 5 guys here are the avg Joe's food joint. They are the food landmarks within DC...kind of like Jim's and Pat's Cheese steaks in Philly or Gray's hot dogs in NYC or Malnati's deep dish in Chicago.

Sorry, but the Obama's remind me in too many ways of the Carter's. Jimmy Carter wearing sweaters on television during the energy crisis and telling Americans to turn down the heat, but instead of closing down the heated pool at Camp David for the winter he kept it running and had tax payers pay for it. The Obama's talk about Wall Street wasting corporate funds on renovating offices (none of that had anything to do with tax dollars prior to the bail out), but then after the bail out they hire the same designer to renovate the WH on tax payer dollars.

They talk the talk, but when their feet have to walk the walk, it is a different story, and I resent that fact as a taxpayer.
 
Luigi,

YES, but...

1. Just like Flag officers and Wing Commanders, they are expected to attend/host social functions, thus, they get an "entertainment" allowance. This is something every taxpayer pays for, it is just hidden in the budget.

I want my president to be able to entertain in a first class setting whether or not I agree with his politics or not. He's entitled to entertain and there is a budget for doing it, more power to him. But all personal food and drink is paid by him, just as it was for every other president.

Pima said:
2. The guests at these functions are not their room mates per se from Princeton or Columbia, they are movers and shakers in the DC area. Thus, it is not personal it is seen as business, which brings it back to point 1 that the cost is now placed under "cost of doing business.

I would hope he's not wasting the effort on the local PTA or hsi daughter's bowling team. Again, I shy away from taking perks away from the Democrat president just because we differ politically. He is the President of the United States of America and is entitled to the perks that come with it.

Pima said:
I highly doubt when Obama goes to Ben's Chili or 5 guys, he is footing the bill. This also again is how the Obama's play an image for the MSM to glob onto, but quietly do the exact opposite when the MSM is not around. Ben's and 5 guys here are the avg Joe's food joint. They are the food landmarks within DC...kind of like Jim's and Pat's Cheese steaks in Philly or Gray's hot dogs in NYC or Malnati's deep dish in Chicago.

Both Ben's Chili Bowl and 5 Guys are over rated. Bland chili (the dog is not bad) and free peanuts while I wait for a double burger do not attract me. As for Philly, I have never heard of "Jim's" but Pat's and Genos are both pretty good places for cheesesteaks.
 
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