Incorporation of GRE in the future

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by cfogle311, May 20, 2014.

  1. cfogle311

    cfogle311 New Member

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    I have some friends at Ft Knox being briefed by CC and word is they are planning on some big changes for next year. They are considering replacing the gpa portion of the OML with a form of the GRE to try and even out the playing field for all cadets next year and that they will be testing cadets at CST this summer to establish baseline. Rumor has it they might be taking evals out of CST entirely and making it pure training pass/fail. Has anyone else heard about this and have any input?you
     
  2. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    My son just read me an email that was posted on one of the cadet pages. Big time changes seem to be on the way. Surprised they would do away with GPA entirely even if they replace it with GRE.
     
  3. Ligustinus

    Ligustinus Ligustinus

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    what does GRE mean? Checked a few of the abbreviations lists and didn't find it.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    GRE is a test for Graduate School entry, think of it like the SAT for hs. Seniors, but done in college. It stands for Graduate Requirement Exam.

    The AF has a system like this, it is called the AFOQT. However, they still use the cgpa too for scoring.
     
  5. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    Sounds to me like it means Get Ready Early [by taking advanced math and science courses]. In other words it doesn't sound like a good development for DS, who is more language-oriented.
     
  6. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Actually, I think the GRE favors language over tech. There is a quantitative portion but the test web site says it is "basic math skills and elementary mathematical concepts". There is no science section and advanced math won't help. It is mostly language, critical thinking and writing. It would not be a good development for my DS since extemporaneous writing is not his strong suit.

    If this turns out to be true, I bet Kaplan and Princeton Review are laughing all the way to the bank.
     
  7. nofodad

    nofodad Member

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    GRE

    Although at first glance this seems like a radical shift, I can see the logic in this. If the Army utilizes a national test, then you would even out the variety when it comes to individual college rigor. A 3.6 is not equivalent across colleges, even when comparing "equivalent" majors. Let's face it, some schools are just tougher than others. Does the Army have a current system to account for that variable?

    Plus I think it would benefit my DS. :biggrin:
     
  8. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

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    You know, I just had to put my two cents in here. I almost posted last night but thought twice because this is a beef with me and policy makers. Others may feel the same way, or may not. So here goes.

    As an educator, I’m tired of policy makers forcing us to take tests which affect our paths in life. No “one” test should determine pass or fail, promotion or retention, acceptance or not. It should be a conglomeration and totality of the student/cadet, etc. Not every student is a good test taker. Many know the concepts but buckle under the anxiety of the test or may be sick on test day for example. Also, tests measure different attributes. The ACT is an achievement test, measuring what a student has learned in school. The SAT is more of an aptitude test, testing reasoning and verbal abilities. The GRE General Test measures the skills that you've acquired over the high school and college years. The exam aims to measure verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing, and critical thinking skills that have been acquired over a long period of time and that are not related to any specific field of study. Therefore, it is an aptitude test meant to measure your potential to succeed in graduate school.

    Though I believe any one of these tests can “contribute” to the projected success of a student/cadet, I don’t believe that they should be the solitary form of evaluation. Don’t get me wrong. They are beneficial and most of the time are great indicators. But just not by themselves. There are so many contributing factors to the success and failure of humans. Sometimes spirit and determination are the most important attributes that drive an individual’s success. If these aren’t factored in, that person may never have an opportunity to show their capabilities and what they truly have to offer. Hopefully, this tool, if anything, will be “added” to the GPA component. Universities, colleges, military institutions, businesses etc. all include more than one component on evaluations. That’s also one of the reasons why there is such a thing as an interview. Resumes and scores can’t give a true picture of the individual.

    So cfogle311, I pray that your info is not accurate. I don’t believe this will “even out the playing field.” Adding it might. But not replacing the GPA.

    ok I’ll get off my soap box. Thanks for letting me vent.
     
  9. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

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    I see your point of view about the variance in grading. Some schools are tougher than others and a lot of grading is subjective at times. I welcome a universal evaluation. Just not alone.
     
  10. nofodad

    nofodad Member

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    GRE

    I don't think the recommendation is to just use the GRE "alone." After all, gpa does not stand alone in the OML. There's still PT, ECs and PMS evaluation (I'm sure I missed other stuff).

    If you're a Physics major at MIT, I imagine it's a little more challenging than the same major at SUNY Albany (don't flame I picked in-state!) and the same would apply for non-tech majors as well.

    I think our offspring will discover that just when the military has settled on a "path" it will change.

    BTW I'm not a big fan of our test-a-philia approach to education (my SATs reinforce that position) but a national test would serve well as a component of the OML.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2014
  11. paradoxer

    paradoxer Member

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    Actually

    The acronym actually stands for Graduate Record Exam.
     
  12. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to write and post that. I value your insights!

    Personally, I was never a good test-taker, so any standardized test freaks me out. DS handles them ok though. Good thing this is on him and not me!
     
  13. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Can definitely see the emphasis on language, critical reasoning and writing. There's a pile of new regulations out there just waiting to be discussed, written, and explained.:wink:
     
  14. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    The problem with GRE writing is the same problem with SAT writing (and one of the reasons they are dropping it as a required element). Standardized tests of writing can only measure one kind of writing - extemporaneous, hurried writing. This is a type of writing that is rarely, if ever, needed in the real world. A good writer uses references appropriately, writes a draft and makes thoughtful revisions and spends time flushing out all of the key points in a document. None of these skills are measured, or can be measured, in a timed standardized test with pencil and paper.
     
  15. Vista123

    Vista123 Member

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    Personally, I am in favor of a standardized test over GPA.

    Some colleges use grade inflation, some use grade deflation, some curve. All GPAs are NOT equal.

    However, the imperative question is what is GPA used to quantify/indicate as part of the OML? Intelligence? Achievement? Smarts? Positive indicator of graduate school success? And relative to whom? your battalion, all AROTC students that year? Once you get a handle on what GPA represents on the OML you can determine if the GRE is the better indicator or is GPA the better indicator.
     

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