incredible but true ...

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by NPGPItaly, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. NPGPItaly

    NPGPItaly Member

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    As a US citizen born and bred outside the continental US (in Italy) I basically ONLY have access to the VP nomination (nope - no military personal active or otherwise in my family tree ... Grandpa was in the Air Force, but grandparents don't seem to count :frown:) and despite encouragement by the Academy (Naval) and my B&G to do EVERTHING in my power to get a nomination each avenue I have tried thus far has left me right where I started. My VP nomination package was submitted in June and I have contacted every representative and senator of every and any state my mother lived in before coming to Italy ... I even tried the state my grandparents presently reside in. The answer is always the same (if they reply at all) : 'maybe' ... which turns into ... 'need to check with the Academy'... and then 'checked with the Academy ... NO' (the no is invariably offered with an apology and best wishes). I'm at my wits end at this point ... I've been qualified for everything but DoDMERB (documents shipped yesterday and no re flags raised by the doctor on base where I did my physical) and the Nomination ... any advise ?
     
  2. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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  3. NPGPItaly

    NPGPItaly Member

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    Email sent !

    Thank you ! My mom didn't even know about them ! We just fired off an email and will call them later today !
     
  4. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

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    Hmm. I am an overseas candidate as well. I was told by my point of contact at WP that it's up to the Congressional District/Senatorial Office...

    Yeah I'm applying for a nom from the state I was born.
     
  5. NPGPItaly

    NPGPItaly Member

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    not so lucky ...

    That's what I was told as well for USNA (that it was up to the Congressional / Senator's office) but the Congressman's & Senator's staff keep telling me that they need to check with the Academy first ... and then after they check, the answer is always no. To top it off, I was both born AND raised in Italy. My only hope was to contact the states in which a) my social security was registered and where I return to every summer or b) my mom's last legal residence in the US. The former dinged me, the later never even responded to my inquiries. Frustration !
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    SS numbers are given out by regions, not by particular states. Our kids were born in the UK, and because of that their numbers begin with 0, 1 and 2. The reason why is that American children born overseas birth certificates come from the Consulate, not any particular state.

    Do you have dual citizenship? That maybe where the issue stems from.

    Have you tried contacting your Embassy? There are many American children living overseas that apply every yr, granted they are typically military, but your Embassy may be the contact that has dealt with this situation prior and can give you the clear cut answer.
     
  7. NPGPItaly

    NPGPItaly Member

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    Social Security

    Actually, my siblings and I all have social security numbers requested in the US and not by the embassy as strangely enough, they weren't assigned automatically by the Embassy, but only requested later on by my grandmother. That's how I know they were requested in Vermont. I am, in fact, a triple citizen (US, Italian & Canadian), however, so perhaps that is the issue. I will check with the Consulate in Milan where my birth was registered. Thanx again !
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Time out.

    1. SS numbers are not requested by the Embassy. It is a federal law that children born now must have a SS number issued within months of their birth.

    Sorry if there was a confusion.

    VT will put you in the NE region and ten will get me twenty your 1st 3 on your SS starts between 0-3(maybe 2). It is not the state, it is the region. DS1, starts with a 1, born in the UK, DS 2 born in NC starts with a 0. It isn't the state, it is the region.

    2. How did your grandmother request your SS? By law it must be the parent/guardian that requests it. I don't think she requested it, I think because she was state side she assisted your mother in submitting the paperwork.

    Birth certificate must be submitted as proof.

    3. Our 1st 2 were born in the UK, to U.S. citizens, Bullet was AF military assigned there. They were issued the long and short UK birth certificate. We than sent that into the Embassy, and they were given another birth certificate. "Certification of Birth Abroad".

    At that very moment, our children were U.S. citizens, prior to that they were UK.

    Do you have a US "Certification of Birth Abroad"?

    4. There are things called dual citizenship, you maybe one. They really have tried to tighten up those rules, and most countries now require at the age of 18 to declare 1 country.

    5. You state you have 3 countries for citizenship. I am guessing because VT is so close to Canada that this is why you have 3.

    Do your parents file a 1040? Have they voted in the Presidential elections? No flaming here, just asking since parents are from 2 different countries and living in a 3rd. In other words, are they Canadian, or American or are they both, when it comes to the finesse issue?

    6. Can your mother prove residency? Does she have any tie to the U.S.?

    Bank account in her name? Anything legal that shows a tie to VT?

    Yes, you and her are U.S. citizens, but what you are stating is that at least for the last 17 yrs., she has lived in Italy and has no ties. Those tax records, registered voter's card may become your proof for the MOC.

    If she holds a registered voter's card, you CAN prove through dependency that you are eligible to apply to that Cong., and the Sens.

    No flaming, I understand that because NPG just now threw in Canada, it places another twist, because he may be seen as a Canadian resident, and not a US citizen.

    Looked at Leahy's site he has a late due date...Dec. 1st. You need clarification and I think the Embassy will be able to give you the best assistance. They may say, that in their eyes, your mother is still a VT resident, and use your grandmother's address.

    ~~~Bullet and I as military had different homes of record when we lived in the UK as a married couple. He was his parent's address, mine was my mother's. Only when we returned stateside were we required to acknowledge one because it was the 1st time we lived together in the states.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  9. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    No such law exits.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Luigi,

    I am not going to argue if it is a federal, state, a law or whatever regarding my statement of months; go for it. I know for 1040's to declare a child as a dependent they must have a SS number.

    I am not going to muddy the waters about SS requiring or not when he has a SS number, that is your option.

    This poster doesn't need muddy waters.

    He has a SS number. He has tri-citizenship.

    My guess is that he doesn't care left, right or middle about the SS law and if I was incorrect about federal law for newborns. He cares about his problem.

    His problem is he was born in Italy to parents that retain US and Canadian citizenship. His parents have never left Italy for 17 yrs+, thus he has a problem.

    NPGItaly,

    Let me ask you one question? You have 3 countries that regard you as a citizen, is it that you want to go to the AFA or do you want to serve the USA as an AF officer? BIG BIG Difference.

    AF officer means you will be in US. You can attend the AFA as a Canadian or an Italian, but you will go back and serve according to their requirements.

    Every SA has cadets from other nations.

    Just a thought, if it is the AFA experience and would be happy to serve AD in Canada or Italy, you will need to contact them, and ask for support...like an MOC. You will serve AD in their AF, and it will probably require you to relinquish your ties to the US.

    In the end of the day, is it AFA, or is it USA?
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Well... perhaps as a law.... but the IRS requires your child to have a social security number when you file your taxes.... so practically speaking children must have a social security number within about 12 months.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Luigi,

    I am not going to argue if it is a federal, state, a law or whatever regarding my statement of months; go for it. I know for 1040's to declare a child as a dependent they must have a SS number. XPOSTED with kinnem: IRS requires your child to have a social security number when you file your taxes.... so practically speaking children must have a social security number within about 12 months.

    I am not going to muddy the waters about SS requiring or not when he has a SS number, that is your option.

    This poster doesn't need muddy waters.

    He has a SS number. He has tri-citizenship.

    My guess is that he doesn't care left, right or middle about the SS law and if I was incorrect about federal law for newborns. He cares about his problem.

    His problem is he was born in Italy to parents that retain US and Canadian citizenship. His parents have never left Italy for 17 yrs+, thus he has a problem.

    NPGItaly,

    Do you have 3 passports? Or do you have just a US passport? Do your parents view their self as a US citizen? Do you see yourself as a US citizen?

    Let me ask you one question? You have 3 countries that regard you as a citizen, is it that you want to go to the AFA or do you want to serve the USA as an AF officer? BIG BIG Difference.

    AF officer means you will be in US. You can attend the AFA as a Canadian or an Italian, but you will go back and serve according to their requirements.

    Every SA has cadets from other nations.

    Just a thought, if it is the AFA experience and would be happy to serve AD in Canada or Italy, you will need to contact them, and ask for support...like an MOC. You will serve AD in their AF (Canada, Italy) and it will probably require you to relinquish your ties to your US citizenship.

    In the end of the day, is it AFA, or is it USA?

    Finally, I am interested how you can move forward without an ALO/BGO/MALO. They write recs. They are a part of your WCS. How is it you have nobody from the SA liaison dept in Italy that is assigned to you not give you direction? They don't interview/write recs for grins and giggles. Their rec actually goes to your WCS.

    No offense, but have to ask has the SAs cleared you and assigned you a liaison because they deemed you a competitive applicant? You may be running in circles because you didn't take the SAT or ACT, or they were too low and thus, the SA's are saying it is not their issue. Do you have a portal opened on the SA website?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  13. NPGPItaly

    NPGPItaly Member

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    good questions all ...

    to answer pima's last questions i need to take a step back :

    Mom's American ... has lived in Italy for 24 years.
    Dad's Italian, born and bred in Italy, but he immigrated with his family to Canada many moons ago where he went to college, did his military service (cavalry) and gained citizenship. Shortly after he moved back to Italy and regained his Italian citizenship ... voilà, dual citizen.

    So, I am tri by birth and all three nations have declared that I may retain all three indefinitely.

    My priorities are the following : US Navy. Full-stop. I do not want to serve either in Canada or Italy (have considered both options and discarded). That decision has taken a considerable amount of time, thought and consideration ... but at this time, I'm as sure as one can be at age 18.

    I have already discussed the 'can't be a tri-citizen' and serve as an officer in any of the armed services' question and started the process of wrestling through what renouncing would look like (administratively) for both Canada & Italy. Obviously, I will be waiting until I am either accepted to the Academy, receive a NROTC scholarship or have finished college and am accepted by an OTC program to renounce. I want to serve, but I am not anxious to give up what is mine by rights until I absolutely have to. Besides, the Canadian can be renounced on paper, the Italian can only be renounced with proof of residency in the country where another citizenship is held (ie: after I am a permanent resident of the US - my Blue & Gold told me that it is possible that this can happen after I day. regardless I will tackle this AFTER and IF they accept me).

    So ... long story short. I want to serve in the US Navy by hook or by crook.

    And now back to the SSN. Both Vermont senators have already dinged me as unfortunately my mom does not have a legal residence, has never taken the VT voters oath (required for ALL vermont voters, even those with residence in the state but living overseas. she simply never thought of doing it while physically present in vt) and has not filed a tax return in the US for WAY too many years (she's an at home mom with next to no income and a dependent on my father's Italian return). So ... although her last legal residence is VT (driver's license held until 4-5 years ago) ... no go for no other reason than the USNA ruled accordingly. How do I know ? The Senators and Representative told me so. Everyone tells me very politely that I only have access to the VP and encourages me to apply post haste. Done, actually, has been done since mid-June.

    (weird fact - my SSN starts with a 2)

    thanx for all the discussion guys ... no solutions yet, but I'm enjoying it !
     
  14. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

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    I can't speak for USNA admissions, but if you were applying to West Point, I would advise you to contact your Academy admissions rep (either the one who has VT in their territory or the one who covers Internationals) and tell them the situation. They need to know why you only applied for a VP nom. Even though your MOCs have contacted admissions about this, I would still want to check with them myself. I'm sure this is not the first time your type of situation has occurred with USNA applications. Your admissions rep will be able give you the most authoritative answer and advise.
    Good luck. I know this must be terribly frustrating for you.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Sorry to hear that NPG.

    I hope you understand I meant no offense, I was just trying to think outside the box in hopes that it could help you.

    I would agree with Bruno, maybe through your BGO and conversations with USNA you can explain this is the only option for a nom available to you.

    Have you thought about posting your problem on the USNA forum? There maybe a poster there that knows someone who has at this issue. You shouldn't take an assumption that all of the USNA posters lurk on all of the sub-forums. There are several posters there that are also BGO's and for all you know they may be able to assist.

    I would probably label the thread something like Citizenship issue, no mention of nom. You want to get people to view it. In the body discuss the nom issue. Never know unless you try!

    Good luck, I truly wish all of your hopes and wishes come true.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  16. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

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    WP Candidate here.

    I don't have a MALO/FFR and, whislt I have someone back at WP looking for one, I am not sure if I'm getting one. Also, I don't think I need one to apply.

    As I talked to my Outreach Admissions Officers, I discussed the issue of the nomination. Basically, it boiled down (THIS IS WEST POINT, NOT USAFA USNA) to contact the offices and, depending on their answer, they'll take a look at my situation - after all, there are Superintendent noms, for example.

    Just echoing what buff81 said. Talk to someone about this thoroughly back at the admissions office - they should be able to help you somehow.
     

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