Interesting numbers

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by summer1942, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. summer1942

    summer1942 Member

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    Here are some numbers:

    Some points to consider:

    1. Big jump on number of nomination from 2010-2012 to 2014: from average 3800 to 6100 (161%). Why ???
    2. The class size stays the same for those years: between 1200-1250 even the number of applicants jump from 10747 to 17417 (162%)
    3. Big jump also on number of applicants from last 2 years 2103-2014 and perhaps will be more for class of 2015. Why ? More kid want to serve the country ???
    4. Since the number of nominations almost double or triple the number of 3Q'd, can someone get appointment without being in the 3Q's pool, example: " 2.0 GPA, 800 SAT, lazy, party animal, son of the 5 star admiral or big shot senator "..
     
  2. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Commencing two years ago, NROTC and USNA combined their application somewhat. Not sure exactly how it works but I think on every NROTC application there is a box to check if one is interested in USNA. Afraid not to check it, that it might affect their NROTC application, most do check it. Then pursue it no further. This is the major reason for the huge jump in applications the past two years.

    ALL who get appointments must be 3Qed.

    The huge increase in the number of nominations over the past two years is solely due to the focus on previously underrepresented districts.
     
  3. USNA1982BGO

    USNA1982BGO Retired Staff Member

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    If the number of USNA candidates I've been assigned this year is any indication, application numbers may be even higher for the 2015 cycle. I'm up about 40%, when compared to last year, for candidates who are at or above 70% application completion (includes interview) and it's only mid-October.
     
  4. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Might also have something to do with the hit most college funds took these last few years. "Cornell? Duke? Why not give the Naval Academy a shot. Get in and I'll buy you that new Mustang when you get done." :biggrin:
     
  5. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Interesting hypothesis re: the money, but I'd bet against that notion. Going through the app process and consequent 4 years merits a whole herd of Secretariats. But nice try. ;)

    With so many more applicant/candidates, conventional wisdom might lead us to believe that appointments have become more competitive. And in a gross numbers sense they have IF one is white, from urban areas especially including traditionally competive states, and a few other niches. Let's take a brief, somewhat random look at what's happened over the past 5 admissions seasons.

    With so many more apps, one might think SAT/ACT mean scores have gone up. Not so. In fact they've declined rather dramatically.

    Class of 2009 had 13% of appointees scoring below 600 in math vs. 25% this year. A 50% decline.

    In verbal 26% were below 600 in 2009 ...for 2014 that same 25% were below 570, another rather dramatic drop.

    Priors have dropped from 76 to 34. Don't figure on getting in outta the fleet.

    NAPSters have increased 14% from 229 to 261. This one's obvious.

    Nuke school appointments ...down to 7 from 16

    Foundation down from 80 to 59

    Prior college students down from 81 to 63 down 22%. Don't figure on getting in outta Penn State or Michigan.

    Hispanics up to 176 from 115, 53% increase.

    African Americans up 129 from 68, increase of 90%

    Asian, Native, Pacific Islanders up 133 from 88, 51% increase.

    Alumni kids down 12%

    Women applicants are down 400 from 2009, a 10% drop.

    And candidly, absent the affirmative action officer's assessment, the slide is rather dramatic and discouraging to traditional applicants.

    So no need to celebrate or think that USNA is becoming more "popular" or desirable to those who would have applied just 5 seasons back. My guess is that admission peers at other SAs are sadly yucking it up at all the money USNA has been dumping, much of it illegally allocated as we've learned and costing one Supe is final season and possibly a star, with reduced academic performance to show among appointees.

    When one looks at the trends here, the picture becomes somewhat more clear.
     
  6. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I did not know that! That's very interesting.

    If true, then it seems this dramatic jump in "applications" is mostly contrived and illusionary - i.e. not a very realistic picture.

    Are you sure that simply checking that box constitutes an "application" to the United States Naval Academy? I'm not doubting you, I just find it a rather cheesy way of inflating the numbers to make the school look more popular and selective than it is.
     
  7. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    The ROTC thing has undoubtedly had some impact but I'm betting my eye tooth (no, I'm not from WV, just missing one of my cuspids ...) that's a camouflage to other recruitment designs. You can mine the data, and this maneuver is not about some illusory mirage that there may be myriads of ROTC applicants who simply haven't considered applying to the Mother Ship of their dreams.

    Conversely, it may be a way to appease and land those traditional candidates to USNA who will no longer land a spot at the Yard, but it keeps 'em in the Navy. Now this is really creative thinking.;-)

    And most certainly it's a tactic to ID potential minority candidates whom USNA might then re-recruit to address Yardly yearnings. ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    I don't think they have ever published it so no reaon for you to know.

    The two applications were originally combined as an efficiency effort. The fact that "who was who" was indistinguishable in the CGO was attributed to a computer "glitch" which was to be fixed post haste.

    It is still there. I don't know if the glitch was unfixable or if the unintentional benefit of getting all the top ROTC applicants into the USNA system overrode the desire for realistic inputs. Because, for one reason or another, there are those who apply to ROTC who do not apply to USNA. Probably one of the reasons for the CGO summer phone calls by stashed ENSs/2LTs is to sort out those who really want to go to USNA and perhaps do a little "selling" to those only applying to ROTC because neither CGO or BGOs can yet determine who is who.

    It may appear contrived, illusionary, or cheesy but I am realitively certain that was not the intent.

    And I am most positive. I was just talking to an Admissions Representative last week and he asured me that it was still an issue and the plan was to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
  9. candidsmom

    candidsmom Member

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    My son received an appointment to USNA and an NROTC scholarship. The NROTC liason in our area contacted my son and requested (strongly) that he apply after seeing his name on the USNA application list. The two were completely separate processes, interviews etc, but the liason stated they were merely sharing lists. Due to the small number of NROTC applicants (at least in our area) it seemed that NROTC was trying to boost their numbers than the other way around, but this was just our experience in our area.
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    There has been some discussion about sharing the interview and I think already ROTC can request that the BGO perform both. However, the interviewer for ROTC must be an O-5 or above, active or retired which precludes a lot of the BGOs who are parents and younger active duty/reserves.

    It is definitely still in the evolution stage.
     
  11. 2012mom?

    2012mom? Member

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    My Mid's ROTC interviewer was a Senior Chief, definitely not O-5 or above, although he was active duty.
     
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    I shouldn't have said anything since I really don't know the particulars. For BGO's, O-5 or above is most definitely mandatory. I would imagine that this might not apply to those in officer recruiting or assigned to the ROTC units themselves.
     
  13. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    We have BGO's in this area that are neither academy grads nor ever served in the military in any capacity. Some are basically Moms & Dads who had a son/daughter that went to the academy or, for some reason, have some connection with the academy. There are some who are certainly not an "O-5 or above."
     
  14. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Memphis is on the money. No connection beyond "it's nice if we can get an interested party who's interested AND has some personal experience."

    Many BGOs have no formal connection or prior service. It's essentially interest, willingness to put in the time and effort, location, need, assessment of BGO application, etc. Loads of parents and simply good folks with love of country and Academy.
     
  15. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Memphis - it might be helpful if you read the entire conversation in context.

    Of course a BGO doesn't have to be an O-5 or above; probably few are. He was talking about a BGO who give the NROTC interview.
     
  16. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    If I misunderstood - then my apologies.
     
  17. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    You did. Read the entire post. And it's context to preceeding ones.
     
  18. asenopoulos

    asenopoulos Member

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    Does anyone know the number that were 3Q'd for 2013 and 2014?
     
  19. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    As a BGO, I'm often asked to do NROTC interviews. However, b/c I'm neither currently a commissioned officer nor retired (nor made it to O-5 since I got out after 8 yrs), I have to decline. I do offer to find someone who fits the bill.

    Candidates, please understand that the requirements ARE different for NROTC and USNA interviewers. Thus, your BGO may not be able to do your ROTC interview. However, as noted, you can ask if he/she knows someone who meets the requirements; we often do.
     
  20. asenopoulos

    asenopoulos Member

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    Well.. The reason I ask is because I am now 3Q'd for USNA. I am trying to figure out how many people they may 3Q for the new huge volume of candidates.

    Maybe this question needs to be answered first. Do they base the amount of 3Qs off of the amount of applicants? Or based on different standards?
     

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