interview etiquette?

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by piper, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. piper

    piper Member

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    Daughter received leadership award one week before congressional interviews. Does she take copy of it to interviews and bring it up, hope they ask her if there's anything new and then show it, or just update her academy file and ALO?
     
  2. 2015USMA

    2015USMA Member

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    When I went to my interview, I noticed that some candidates brought a folder, which I am assuming had updates to their files. I would personally recommend giving a copy of any updates to the staffer that signs your daughter in so. I feel that telling them as soon as she arrives is the most respectful way of introducing updates to her file. Good luck to her at her interview!
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Just make sure you bring a lot of them...every board is different. You don't want to walk into a board with 12 members and only have 10 to give out. I wouldn't take 50 with me, but I would take 15-18.

    Traditionally, they will open it up to her in a broad based context at some point...is there anything you want to acknowledge that is not in your packet. That is the perfect time if she elects not to bring a resume to say, YES, last week I was awarded XYZ. This award is for .... and out of X amt of applicants, I was selected.

    Additionally, depending on this leadership award she should be able to work into the conversation..."although, it is not on my application, just last week I received this award for leadership, and I feel that this award is a prime example of..." Keep it on point to the question.


    Good luck
     
  4. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    Emphasis on the different!

    Sample size of two MOC's (Both senator review boards).... their process apparently did not want to discuss resume items, etc. They wanted to see "the real person behind the resume".

    So it was nearly all open ended questions. some that stand out:

    "You seem to have quite a bit of leadership experience. Can you tell us two aspects of your personal leadership style?" (with examples)

    "what are your two weakest areas" (and implied: how do you manage around them) That from a 2 star general! :)

    Stuff like that. The point being: Pretty much everyone there had stellar resumes.... they were looking for differentiators that can only be seen live.

    My son was impressed with the questions, very thought provoking. Was not presented to the candidate as a challenge, more of an opportunity.

    Just another set of data points!
     
  5. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Oh my god I want to buy you a cookie. For all the nominations process haters out there, re-read this post about eleventy-billion times until you can stop your belly-aching, cry-baby BS and understand that this is EXACTLY why the process is so valuable.

    Great post, Hawk!
     
  6. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Why must you attack and start the childish name calling at those who disagree with your opinion?

    No one is belly-aching, no one is a cry-baby, and (NEWS FLASH!) the opposite opinion from yours is not automatically "BS" despite an arrogant ego that thinks otherwise.

    Let's change a few words to counter your "facts" -

    "For all the nomination lovers, re-read any admissions information about the USCGA about eleventy-billion times and you can stop your belly-aching, crybaby BS and understand that a service academy can still interview candidates without need for a Congressional middle man."

    The pros and cons of each system can be debated without your gratuitous mud-slinging at those whose opinion is different from yours.
     
  7. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I'm sorry, I won't ape your style again. :thumb:

    I called it BS because it's BS...all the whining about the "political connections" and the "back-handed deals" and "it's so unfair." Welcome to college admissions. Lots of smart kids don't get into lots of schools.

    When people with no verifiable proof come on a nameless forum and start calling MOCs underhanded and nefarious and besmirching the centuries-old process that has produced dozens of Rhodes Scholars, Marshall Scholars, Truman Scholars, Generals, Admirals, COEs, Congressmen, Senators, and a few Presidents as crooked and corrupt.....that's BS. When someone cries that vociferously about a process being corrupt, the odds are that their views are the result of a personal slight and not a corrupt system. It's no different than fans claiming the refs were bought off. It's an excuse for a result that isn't to an individual's liking.

    Since you know so much about the admissions process, I'm sure you know that most MOCs use retired officers, reserve officers, graduates, and civic leaders on their panels. So when the nominations process haters call the process crooked and corrupt, they're calling us crooked and corrupt. That's BS.

    It's nice that USCGA interviews everyone. The entire academy is 75% of the size of last year's USMA plebe class.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  8. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Let's get back to the original topic, please.

    Here's my two cents:

    I would take a THIN file with a copy of your resume, essay, and whatever else you submitted along with any updates. The reason is that most people don't know what to do with empty hands. Having a THIN folder of some sort gives you something to hold onto. They key, of course, is not to fiddle with it.:smile:

    Second, you can study the materials while you wait so that you're familiar with what you sent in. It's not good when someone asks about something in your essay or resume and you've forgotten it.

    Third, as someone above said, it can give you the opportunity to provide an update. A few notes about that. . . first, make sure it's something "significant" such as an award, election, etc. The fact that you joined the Chemistry club isn't going to cut it. Don't be so eager to pull out your shiny new toy that you lose track of the interview. If the moment arises, great. If not, at the end of the interview, when they (undoubtedly) will ask if you have any questions or anything to add, you can say, "Since I turned in my packet, I [won this award/was elected team captain, etc.]. Here is a copy of [the award, updated resume, etc.]."
     
  9. hawk

    hawk ButterBar Dad

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    While not wanting to wade into a debate, as I'm just a parent with a kid going through the process.....

    I've become convinced while watching it play out that the process works in our state. The combination of the senators (state wide) with the MOC seems to work well.

    What I thought at the beginning was an outdated process at risk for cronyism appears to be a pretty effective approach to find qualified candidates across the state and give them opportunity.

    Ex:

    The senators are going to find the top qualified candidates across the state. In GA, it appears the senators go first, at least in our district. Everyone has a shot. But only top contenders will make it to the interview. It's like early admissions for civvy college apps where you are measured mostly by your core stats & paperwork.

    But if the candidate did not make that cut, then the house side offers a smaller pool and another chance by just competing with candidates in your immediate area. And much more opportunity for intangibles not on the app to factor in.

    I'm not sure I could devise a more equitable approach to identify competitive candidates in all states recognizing that nearly every state will have large metro areas that will skew results, etc.

    I had to bite my tongue regarding the "Alabama" comment in one of the Nom threads.... I know it was not intended as a slam, but don't assume a state like Alabama can't scare up 20 solid noms per academy statewide, you need to try to apply to some AL college honor programs. :smile: Likewise for finding at least one solid candidate per district.....

    Back on the interview questions.... my son left his senator nom interviews with the clear impression that they had done a great job structuring an objective process that balanced paper analytics with looking for the intangibles. And was focused totally on finding the best candidates to submit while giving everyone a fair shot.

    The downside is that for the GA senate noms it appears that due to volume only the top 10% of applicants were interviewed. Just based on the interview schedule & timeframes a rough estimate would be 60-100 were interviewed. They ran parallel review boards, and you were only interviewed by a board focused on the candidate's first choice.

    The one thing that was clear to my son: The boards were not trying to trick or trip up the candidates.... they were looking for insight, and worked to put the candidate at ease.

    That does not imply softball questions... my recommendation to candidates interviewing would be to think about high level questions which could be asked about items on their resume, or implied by a pattern on their resume. (if you focused in one area over another)

    If heavy on academics, lighter on athletics, then what have you done to prepare for the physical aspect.

    And vice-versa.... how are you prepared to handle the academic challenges.

    But again, just based on observation, every board/interview could be different! So be relaxed but professional. And most importantly, be yourself!
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    That's a great point! Be prepared to answer some really, really tough questions that seem innocuous at first. I was boarded for a certain unit awhile back. One of the toughest questions came from the commander of the unit, an O-6 USMA grad, who asked "I see on your application you put Loyalty ahead of Integrity...can you tell us why you ranked them like that?"

    The answer was much tougher than I thought!
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    There are many here who disagree with the nomination process for NONE of the ad-hominem reasons you post above. In fact, to lump all of those who oppose a nomination process as "nomination haters" and their opinions as "BS" does a great disservice to the USCGA Superintendent, the Commandant, and other USCGA Administration who feel otherwise. Not everyone thinks the process is corrupt, nor has anyone called "us" corrupt, your're really stretching to support your thin argument.

    They don't interview everyone, my guess is less than half of all USCGA candidates have one. They seem to get it right.

    However, the USNA, USMA, and USAFA interview every candidate, right?

    Explain what "differentiators" the MoC is going to see that the MALO/BGO/ALO is not?

    And if none, why use MALO/BGO/ALO interviews at all?
     
  12. time2

    time2 Member

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    I think you missed his point. BGO interviews are structured totally different from MOC interviews and serve different purposes. The original point of this thread was whether someone should take resumes to the MOC interview, I think we are now off into the weeds on a totally different subject.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    No, I didn't. scoutpilot specifically highlighted and called out these parts of the post:

    They wanted to see "the real person behind the resume".

    The point being: Pretty much everyone there had stellar resumes.... they were looking for differentiators that can only be seen live.

    scoupilot's comments were in support of MOC nomination interviews by highlighing these quotes but he did it by using attacks and name calling to back up his allegations.

    My counter was a belief that anything seen in the MOC interview in support of "the real person behind the resume" and "differentiators that can only be seen live" can also be seen by the respective academy's interview process.
     
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Luigi, stick to the process you know, whatever it may be.

    Out of respect for usna1985's request, I won't debate it further here. Time2 is right. You missed the point.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2010
  15. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Edited for content
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2010
  16. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Edited for content.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2010
  17. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    You were warned. All posts that do not contribute to the original question and/or are merely argumentative will be edited for content. Keep it up and you won't like what happens next.
     
  18. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Absolutely. BGO do not have access to any of the application items to include references, essays, academic, or extracurricular activiites. The main purpose of the BGO interview is to determine character, desire, and motivation. By having all the above items in addition to a face-to-face interview, MOCs are capable of a much more indepth interview. I am not a proponent of shoving a lot of papers at the interviewers during the interview. I would say to take 15 copies of any new pertinent information to the MOCs office a couple of days prior to the interview so that the staff can add what they see fit.
     
  19. NYBEAR

    NYBEAR Member

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    Typical tactic of a narrow-minded troublemaker. Try to end a debate after running out of reasoned arguments and have been reduced to screaming expletives at people.

    The truth is there was never anything new here that I read that supports the MOC nomination process. Two US Senators from one State, using a "fair" system that allows for personal interviews does not support the supposition that the current MOC nominations system works best.

    I would argue that this (limited sample)is a further indictment and shortcoming of the system. What about the dozens of US senators that do not allow for interviews? Is a system that treats qualified candidates differently in the application process, depending upon where one lives fair and just?

    Let every qualified candidate apply to any or all of the service academies and let the academies decide the incoming class in a consistent , equitable process.

    The USCGA is the only SA that can claim that the "entire" application process is fair to all applicants.
     
  20. singaporemom

    singaporemom Member

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    Bring an updated copy of your resume....20 copies.. Inform the nomination coordinator of your update when you checkin and ask how best to handle it. "Here is an updated copy of my resume for my file, may I present the interviewers with this updated copy during the interview?"

    She/he will give you the best answer. This will be the appropriate avenue if you have a cooperative nomination coordinator. DS nomination coordinator was extremely helpful and answered DS questions quickly via email.

    When DS arrived at interview he was brought before a panel of 4 people. USNA grad, Navy officer, Navy enlisted, non-military citizen. They had all thoroughly reviewed his resume, and he was pleasantly surprised that they had. First statement was something like, "You have the most unusual resume I have ever seen."

    They simply expanded on what he had done and asked about the experiences he had. He got the typical "Why did you choose USNA?", "Are you prepared to serve your country?" "What are your backup plans of USNA does not work out?"

    DS had some atypical answers to the above...he hadn't dreamed about USNA since he was young, but had spent the last year and a half discovering all of the military branches and what each had to offer, and determining the best fit. His resume was not created for the sole purpose of an SA or an ROTC experience. It was simply what he had chosen to participate in.

    I think that admissions and nomination boards can see the difference between a student that has cherry picked his choices to please others and a student that really loves what he's doing.
     

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