Iraq War Officially Ended Today

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by patentesq, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    A historic moment deserving of its own thread.

    History will judge, I suppose. Let's keep our fingers crossed that a very bright future lies ahead for the Iraqi people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  2. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Fixed. Sorry, that's a pet peeve.

    As for Iraq...I will always remember it as a place defined by a slow, grinding sadness.

    Last one out, turn off the lights.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011
  3. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Read this. http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/drgw007.html

    I think the rule is that it's "A history" but "An historical", depending on how you pronounce the "h". I would certainly never say "Wow, what a honor!"

    EDIT: I missed your point, Scout! You were focused on historic v. historical (not the "a" v. "an" debate). My apologies. Hmmm . . . wonder if there's still time to change my initial post!
     
  4. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Hmmm. I was focused on both. It's "A historic" because the H is pronounced. You're right, it's "an honor" and "an hour" and "an homage" because in both cases the actual first sound is the vowel. But you don't stay in "an hotel" or ride "an horse" nor draw "an histogram." So unless you say "istoric home" or "istory class" or "istorical artifact" the "a" is correct. Of course you may pronounce those that way, in which case I can't help you! :wink:


    Anyway, now that the thread is TOTALLY detailed (mea culpa), I think the end of the war is fitting. It seems that the final exodus is as haphazard, muddled, and out of the minds of the American people as the rest of the war was.

    It's funny to look back across the span of it. I think folks don't always realize that war is a living, breathing thing. It was such a wild west show at the beginning, in ways that are hard to articulate fully. The contractors were always the wild card.
     
  5. sprog

    sprog Member

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    If you did, a visit with Henry Higgins might be in order.
     
  6. osdad

    osdad Member

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    A very sad chapter in our history closed.

    I wonder what's the over/under on the place igniting in sectarian warfare? If its more than a year - I'll take the under.
     
  7. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    This probably isn't a fair comment because few (certainly not me) could have predicted the Arab Spring and faulty intel about the "clear and present danger" that Iraq posed. But it sure seems like regime change in Libya was a heck of a lot cheaper than it was in Iraq.

    Good to see we're not in a rush to act elsewhere like, say, Venezuela. Even Cuba is starting to turn around. I suppose these thugs all fall on their faces eventually and end up with their head adorning a post in the corner of town.

    It'll be interesting to see how Syria plays out. Perhaps a little "NATO nudge" will help. I'm puzzled about why Assad has so much leverage with Putin and Hu (must be photos or something). Iran is a wholly different animal, though.
     
  8. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I think a lot more than finger crossing is going to be needed to insure a bright future. I hope I am wrong.
     
  9. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    You may be right, Packer. There's something about having a "revolution" from the ground up that sets the tone for a new nation and its people going forward. I wonder whether we (the U.S.) would have been different if the French had fought our battle with England for us and then turned the colonies over to our founders to form a new government.
     
  10. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Well having lived in Damascus for quite a while, IMHO it's not the same as Egypt or Libya by a long shot. It does have functioning institutions, and while it is a dictatorship, I don't believe that the educated middle class (there is one) actually feels like it is governed by outright thieves and a completely broken economy as in Egypt with no hope but to leave, or a nut case like in Libya. The Assad regime has a firm grasp of the Army as the folks in Homs have learned. So I don't expect any Arab Spring to succeed rapidly there and it would be an Iraqi Freedom sized nudge to toss Assad IMHO.
     
  11. pennak

    pennak Member

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    The things that come up in this forum are nothing short of amazing....
     
  12. pennak

    pennak Member

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    And there is no way that such a nudge is going to happen...
     
  13. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    I concede that you guys likely know more about life on the ground in Syria than I do, but my gut just tells me that any head of state who murders 5000 of his own citizens is on his way out, particularly when the most of the other Arab League members have cut off his access to bribe money.

    I'd wager Assad is gone in 1 year.
     
  14. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I Wouldn't bet on that- his Father shot a lot more than that in 1982 in Hama- I believe that the death toll was > 10,000 the last time around. These guys play for keeps. I hope you are right- but frankly- the Arab world and ours are two different playing fields completely.
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I'm glad the war is over. And with GITMO having closed 2 and 1/2 years ago, life is much more peaceful....... "What? GITMO is still open"? But I thought...... Didn't they say....... But he promised.......


    Never mind.....
     
  16. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Really, dude?
     
  17. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I just have one question..... Did we win?
     
  18. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Does it matter?

    Do soldiers only fight to win? If so at what price? We can win lose the battle but win the war. What if this was an unjust war?

    For me, there is no such thing as a just war. A war by its nature is cruel. Does saving few lives or many live worth killing more lives.

    Like to quote a passage from the Starship Troopers, it went something along the line of do we start a war if country X hold one prisoner of war knowing that the war will result in more death, what if country X hold 100 prisoners, 1000 prisoners.

    I had no problem when I was called up for Operation Iraqi Freedom. Did I agree with President Bush's decision to invade Iraq? No. But as a soldier, my personal opinion didn't matter. Sometimes, soldiers have to do what they trained to do - fight - not discuss finer points of just and unjust war. Should have thought about such things before you joined up.
     
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Your mistake is in thinking it matters, in the end. Or in this case, if there even is such a thing as victory.
     
  20. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Just_A_Mom raises a good point. The War in Iraq lasted about twice as long as World War II and really didn't draw that much attention when it ended. But there was a time when wars used to end with a huge fanfare and there was little ambiguity about the outcome. Here's the scene from V-J Day:

    [​IMG]


    Also, compare today's front page of the New York Times with the front page after, say, the conclusion of hostilities in Korea:

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Maybe it's because we don't have a draft and wars thus don't affect as broad a spectrum of our society as they once did.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2011

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