Is it easier for a girl to get accepted?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by acho97, Aug 12, 2015.

  1. acho97

    acho97 Member

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    Hi!
    My friend is a thinking of applying to the AFA and she was wondering if it would help that she is an asian female. Idk.. I didn't really think it would make a difference, but she said that someone told her that her chances are better because she's kind of a minority.
    thoughts?
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    She has 0% chance if she doesn't apply.

    Nobody can answer that question because there are way too many variables.
     
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  3. AHS74

    AHS74 Member

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    A 3Q female would probably have a better chance than a similar male because the candidate pool is much smaller. ( I suspect the percentage of female applicants is less than 20-25% of the total)
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    If she's East Asian then she is not an under-represented minority at the academies. Being female may or may not help.
     
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  5. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    1st. She is asking a question that is irrelevant. Unless she plans on having a sex change operation, why question something you have ZERO control over. Unless of course, her sole motivation for applying, is to go to college free, and she's trying to co pare the academy to other universities, and trying to determine where to put her energy in applications.

    2. Receiving an appointment to the Air Force academy is a 5 part procedure.
    A) having an application that meets the minimum standards.
    B) meaning all physical and medical requirements
    C) receiving a nomination
    D) having an ALO interview that recommends you to receive an appointment
    E) having the previous 4 items better than your competition

    Now, that's not to say that diversity at the academies isn't important. It is, just like with most universities. And because fewer females apply than men, the odds do increase for a woman applicant. The Asian factor isn't really that significant. Same with most universities. There proportionately, more than enough Asians applying. But being a female can help, but only if you have a competitive application.
     
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  6. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Of course there are " too many variables" to determine if a single factor would a positive impact on an individual's chances but..
    If the percentage of the applicant pool (females for example) is lower than the goal for that category, all other factors being equal, those in that category that apply have a greater probability of being appointed.
    When I attended the admissions briefing at West Point the briefing officer said the goal for the class of 2019 was 22% female. The goals do exist, they strive to meet the goals.
     
  7. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Folks, I've been an ALO for 21 years...I have been asked this question annually.

    ChristCorp (Mike) answered it precisely!!

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  8. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American

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    I hope not to offend anyone...

    It's not politically correct to say, and there are many on this site that will disagree. I have been following this topic for 15 years and I believe without a doubt that all things being equal, that females do indeed have a better chance of being appointed to an academy.

    There are fewer females that want the "warrior" lifestyle, and when the academy gets a standout female candidate, they become very interested. There are simply fewer of them out there. The white, male, high school graduate is the toughest ticket.

    Naps, prep school, incoming from the fleet, females, minorities, etc make up about half of each incoming class.

    Many more qualified male candidates are turned away than female. Of course the competition within states and congressional districts comes into play.

    On this forum there are very vocal members that will disagree, but I believe that 2 identical packets, one male, one female, and the young lady gets the good news most times.

    All are deserving, but the question was about whether bring a girl is an advantage. Yes.

    IMHO. :)
     
  9. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily Member

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    From a pure statistics standpoint, there is not as much of a disparity as one might think. I don't see the breakdown of men vs. women who applied vs. those who were admitted to the AFA, but on West Point's web site, it shows the number of applications started compared to those who were admitted and that shows that a fewer percentage of women applicants get in vs. men. However, of the applicants who are deemed fully qualified for admittance, 52% of the men are admitted vs. 55% of the women. So once we get down to who is fully qualified, then there is a small advantage to the women. I believe these numbers are from last year, however. Once they post the class of 2019 stats, we may find that it has become more favorable for women as they really boosted their number of women in this class.
     
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  10. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    ChristCorp, maybe you can answer this - or anyone else who's "in the know:"

    Would a female applicant be competing with males or with other females for appointment?
     
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  11. USAFA83GradWife

    USAFA83GradWife Member

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    Oh gosh, I'd hope that evaluation of candidates would always be color-blind, gender-blind, race-blind, etc. At least initially. I understand the need to reach certain quota goals to ensure some diversity. I would think that if 2 candidates, male & female, rank similarly, then the female would have the advantage so those goals could be met. However, if a female doesn't qualify, then they wouldn't be admitted regardless of quotas.
     
  12. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    Those are old numbers, not Class of 2018. As far as USMA goes, the big "push for women" started with 2018. 267/451 or 59% of qualified women were admitted vs 956/1973 or 48% of qualified men. 11 percentage points difference is significant.

    http://www.westpoint.edu/oir/Class profiles/Class of 2018.pdf

    I expect that there will be a similar disparity seen when the official Class of 2019 stats are released. I haven't been following USNA and USAFA but I believe both were at ~27% females admitted for 2019, an increase in both cases.
     
  13. Badge250

    Badge250 Member

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    How about IC's ? What percentage do they make up of an average incoming class ? Maybe another statistic to figure into the equation: If 27% of an incoming class is female, what percentage of those female are IC's ? If a large percentage of females are IC's, it seems like very good chances to get an appointment as a qualified, female IC. Maybe I'm way off base, but just a thought.
     
  14. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    I think it does enter into the equation but I'm not sure how. I know that USMA added Women's Lacrosse recently as part of the push to admit more women.
     
  15. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    This is a very good point. In order to truly compare AFA stats, we need to know how many fully qualified women versus men applied and then were accepted. I found demographic profiles for past years with the most recent one being the class of 2018, however, USAFA stats only list how many women (21.9% last year) and men were appointed out of a total number of qualified applicants. They do not break down qualified applicants by gender. I don't know how accurate the numbers are, but I found these stats on Collegedata.com for the class of 2019:

    Overall Admission Rate 12% of 9,634 applicants were admitted
    Women 12% of 2,305 applicants were admitted
    Men 12% of 7,329 applicants were admitted
    Students Enrolled 1,154 (100%) of 1,154 admitted students enrolled
    Women 267 (100%) of 267 admitted students enrolled
    Men 887 (100%) of 887 admitted students enrolled

    According to those stats, it looks like women are appointed at the same percentage as men. If these are close to being accurate, women do not get in any easier than men. But, as Pima so eloquently posted earlier, your chances of getting in are zero, no matter what gender you are, if you don't apply. Bottom line, put forth your best application possible and wait; and don't forget about plans B, C and D. :D
     
  16. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily Member

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    Thanks for those updated statistics. With those statistics, I would agree then, that it is apparently becoming "easier" for women to get in.
     
  17. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Badge, I commend you for not slipping into that "it's easier for ICs to get in than the smarter, better prepared non-IC" faulty thinking that some have. THAT drives me insane, and I truly need no more help in that department.

    If, as the stats say (and everyone knows about stats & manipulation of same), 12% of men and 12% of women get a nom & are 3Q & get the apptment, what are the scores of each gender? Which has the higher SAT/ACT? cgpa? athletic numbers (given that the expectations are not the same, but based on what the expectations are), etc. Are their scores also equal?
     
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  18. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Again, very good questions and I truly wish they broke the numbers down in such a way to make a comprehensive comparison.
     
  19. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    The problem is, most people probably wouldn't want to see all the true numbers. There will always be someone who thinks the process is unfair. Because all citizens and states pay federal tax, and the academies are paid for mostly by federal taxes, the federal law says that each state must be be equally represented with appointments. Approximately half of the appointments are from senator and representatives slates. The academy is free to choose from the non selectees of these slates, and from other slates, to complete filling the class size they want.

    The problem is, an appointee in a state, say South Dakota, may have a lower total score than a non appointee from the state of Florida. But that appointee with the lower score, may have been the highest score on the slate in their state.

    Depending on what the makeup of the 50% appointees from the senator and representatives slates look like, the academy may choose accordingly from the national pool to complete the class size. This might mean more woman over men. Or more blacks over white.

    But before too many yell that it's not fair that way, stop and think of the alternative. It's been a proven fact, that a more diverse organization is more efficient in productivity and innovation. Not just diversity is race or gender, but also in other backgrounds and experiences. Urban and farms. Rich and poor. Educational levels. Background experiences, adversities, challenges, etc. it's also proven that when the upper management of an organization, the officer corp for our topic, is also diversified and similarly represents the diversity of their subordinates and workers, that the organization is even more efficient and productive. Well, the enlisted corp, these are the subordinates and workers, are extremely diverse. Every background imaginable. So it's logical and efficient to try and make the officer corp as diverse. Imagine out of 1200 appointees, if 95% were men, 5% woman, 97% white, 2% black, and 1% other. And that 93% of the appointments came from 7-8 states that had the most private schools or best opportunities to excel. E.g. 1100 of the 1200 appointments came from Maryland, Virginia, Florida, California, Texas, Colorado, and Connecticut? How would that affect our military.

    The academy, and military, have a responsibility to their soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, etc. as well as to the nation in which its protecting and funding this mission, to be the best and most efficient with what they have. Unfortunately, taking the mathematical best from #1-#1200 is not the best or most efficient. Excellence and innovation comes from thinking outside the box. It comes from challenging your people. It comes from personal development. Having a generic plain vanilla organization where everyone is similar in experiences, background, perspective, and beliefs, is not the most efficient or productive. Even with the military's and academy's diversification of students, they are still able to manage a class where the average gpa is 3.86 and the average ACT is 30. It's better to have the diversification with gpa' covering 3.2 through 4.0 than to have an organization where the gpa average is 3.97, ACT of 34, and very little diversity among the cadets and future leaders.
     
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  20. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    CC as always, puts things in proper perspective; one that every single person can understand and it makes total sense. Well done.:rockon:
     

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