Is it possible to fail the CFA?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Grizzly, Jan 4, 2015.

  1. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

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    I have a LOA and a nomination. The only part of my app remaining is the CFA. However, it is definitely going to be the weakest portion of my application. I know that USAFA does not publish minimums, but are there actually minimums? I feel that if I am a strong candidate in that the rest of my application is strong, it's just that I know I will not do well on the CFA. If I have an LOA, is it possible for me to lose it and not receive an appointment solely from a bad CFA score?
     
  2. MiddyB

    MiddyB Member

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    To answer your question: yes, there are actually minimums. No, they will not take back the LOA so long as you pass it. If you fail they will likely ask you to retake it.


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  3. HSmadi

    HSmadi Member

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    You CAN fail the CFA. They will notify you if you failed and will grant you a second attempt. If you don't get notified, it means you passed (can double check with counselor/ALO). However, keep in mind that the CFA plays part of your whole candidate score and it might help or hurt you in the slate of 10 nominees. Best of luck and keep practicing!
     
  4. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

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    How long after you submitted your scores were you notified?
     
  5. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

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    Are there estimates of what the minimums are? Or do the minimums change depending on how strong the rest of your application is? (ie are the minimums different depending on the candidate)
     
  6. USNAco2019hopeful

    USNAco2019hopeful Member

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    Yes there are minimums... they are not published.

    I can guarantee however that if you are a male and you get these scores or higher you will pass. (again not the true minimum just low scores that i know will pass)

    Pull Ups: 4
    BB Throw: 50ft
    Shuttle Run: 9.9s
    Push Ups: 31
    Sit Ups: 53
    Mile: 7:45
     
  7. HSmadi

    HSmadi Member

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    I personally never failed so unfortunately I can't tell you. However, I would strongly recommend getting in touch with your ALO or counselor.
     
  8. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    Try to at least make the averages!

    I understand your position, as I was in a similar place (athletics being my weak point). I passed the CFA (probably barely in pull-ups, shuttle run, and B-ball throw), but I horribly failed the first PFT at USAFA. It counts for about half your PEA (physical education average) and your PEA needs to be above 2.0 to keep you off athletic probation. It sucks really badly to have to bring up an average when you are struggling with the most weighted component! Don't put yourself in that position...it's unpleasant.
     
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  9. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

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    Has anyone failed that has failing scores to share?
     
  10. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Seriously, quit trying to find the minimums. Work your butt off to get the highest scores in each category. You have the time to work on each area. You are only hurting yourself by trying to just get by.
     
  11. Grizzly

    Grizzly Member

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    I'm not trying to find the minimums to "just get by". You must have misread my post.
     
  12. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Short answer...YES folks have failed the CFA...I know several folks over the years that lost their appointments due to failing the CFA...hornetguy hit it square: work to DESTROY the test...don't take it until you KNOW how you'll do; you KNOW how many pullups, pushups, etc...

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
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  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I'd also like to say; don't rely on "other's" scores as a measurement of possible "Minimums". While it is true that there are "minimums", the academy reserves the right to look at the "Whole" person and decide accordingly. E.g. They could determine for one person the minimum Pull-ups is 4; but for another individual, based on the rest of their CFA, the rest of their application that they'll allow 3 pullups. Point is, there's reasons they don't post the minimums. Part of it is because the academy likes to look at the "WHOLE PERSON". They don't just want a person with a 4.0gpa or 36ACT. At the same time, they don't want a person just because they are exception in sports. That's sometimes difficult for a person with a 3.9 gpa who gets turned down to the academy to hear, but the academy is building leaders. Leaders are well rounded individuals. If they just wanted to build brainiacs and academia's, then they'll let MIT, Yale, and Stanford do that.
     
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  14. hlkgirl

    hlkgirl Member

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    My son posted his scores in the evening, and had an automatic generated letter that was sent to him by the next morning that he needed to retake the CFA. He did his test outside in 35 mile an hour wind and had a 8:04 mile, WE think that is what "failed" him. He retook the CFA and everything looks okay now. Good luck!
     
  15. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    MDDADD,

    I don't know that Christcorp phrased that quite as he intended. I think the difference is that ALL graduates of the SAs are expected to be leaders. Do the Ivies produce some great leaders? Sure they do. But it is not their core mission like it is the SA's mission. That is why the SAs require passing the CFA as well as having stellar academics. The SAs are looking for the brainiac who can also run a 5 minute mile or bench press 250 pounds. My kids was one of those LOA kids that Christcorp calls the "no brainer" candidate who had all of the athletics as well as the academics, much like what your son sounds like. Those qualities will help your son a lot at USAFA.

    Also, I love the fighter pilot joke. I would be the first to admit that my son has quite an ego, but then that is what helps make a good fighter pilot.

    Stealth_81
     
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  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Well said stealth. That's exactly it. If the academy just wanted 4.0gpa and 36act students, there would be little difference between them and the ivy schools. But the academy's core mission is quite different. They aren't trying to produce graduates who work on wall street or for fortune 500 companies and law firms. They are producing military leaders. That's their primary mission. And those leaders will have physical requirements that the typical ivy grad will never require.

    This is also why one of their biggest factors when selecting includes organized sports. Not just for the physical aspect, but mainly for the "team" mentality. Another attribute that the ivy student doesn't have to have. Its a lot easier for someone who spent time in the military to look back and see that the academy's requirementsake sense compared to some who see it primarily from an academic view.
     
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  17. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Lets make this simple and short. (Difficult task for me sometimes).

    The academies want and "EXPECT" all of their graduating cadets who become commissioned officers to be educated, leaders, physically fit, team concept individuals, and well rounded when it comes to many other facets concerning people and perspective.

    Do the Ivy's also produce some individuals like this? Most definitely yes. Do the Ivy's "CARE" if the individuals graduating from their schools have these attributes? No, not at all. The schools couldn't care less. You paid your money; you passed your classes; you received a diploma. That's all they "Care" about. They want to ensure quality of education so alumni can promote a good image for other potential students in the future. But that's all they "Care" about.

    They don't care if you graduate and weigh 300 pounds and would die if you tried to run a mile. They don't care if you take your diploma and put it in a scrap book and spend the next 30 years flipping burgers. They do have an image and don't want to see their alumni on the "Most Wanted" lists. But that's strictly for economic image purposes. But as an "INDIVIDUAL", the Ivy schools have absolutely no stake or investment on what you do once you graduate. Do they "Wish you well" and hope that you do great things? Sure. But so does your high school counselor.

    The academies and the military as a whole, have a much more personal interest in you once you graduate. Now, you can disagree if you'd like. That's fine. Some may even say we should "Agree to Disagree". (I never do that). I know what the mission and core values of the military are; and their interest and investment in their Cadets, Airmen, Soldiers, etc... are. They are no where near the same as a civilian school. Even the Ivy League Schools. Yes, there are plenty of Physically fit, Well educated, Well Rounded, leaders who graduate from the Ivy League Schools. The difference between the Ivy League School and the Academies is: "The Ivy League Schools, that outcome is OPTIONAL and totally dependent on the individual and their personal motivation". At the academies, it's NOT OPTIONAL. And if you don't meet such requirements and expectations, it's possible for you to be thrown out of the school. I don't know of ANY Yale or Harvard student kicked out because they were too fat and couldn't do physical fitness tests. Or a number of other reasons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2015
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  18. Boozebin

    Boozebin Member

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    Also sorry for piling onto the hijacking of the thread.

    I can understand the points you have made except the one quoted. The way it reads to me is that you're implying that the measure of a good military leader is the retention rates? That if you get out after your 5 year repay, the SA you attended didn't do a good job making you into a leader? Don't let LITS see that :eek:

    My opinion is that leaders come in all shapes and sizes from all types of backgrounds so the argument can go either way. No one institution has the formula of how to predicted future leaders and how to make them. We've all seen some really good leaders and some really bad ones no matter what institution they got their pedigree from.;)
     
  19. Boozebin

    Boozebin Member

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    Not a problem I had a feeling you were in the flows of typing and the concept you were trying to communicate wasn't coming out correctly.

    Also I can't help it if us Chair Force guys and gals are smart enough to figure out how to fight while in my air conditioned office sitting on my recliner eating "good" food.:p
     

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