Is weight the new big deal?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by armydaughter, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    DS recieved a letter from USMA yesterday that stated that his height/weight number was out of standard based on his DODMERB physical. According to the chart they sent, he was one pound over the max. He's 5'10' 3/4 which is 5'10" according to the Army. If they had used 5'11 or split the difference, he would have been in standard.

    I have read on these forums that there is no weight cut off for USMA. But now, according to this letter he has to go to a doctor (more money) to get his body fat measured and then will have until February to meet standard or br deemed disqualified for USMA.

    His portal says he is medially qualified and he received a letter that said he was fully qualified academically and physically.

    Is 3Q now a 4Q process?

    I am not too concerned about his meeting the standard since his DODMERB physical was at the end of the summer, just before his pre-season atheletic workouts began. He's at least 5 pounds lighter now and his fat % is well under 20% and will be even more so by February - peak time for his sport.

    I am more annoyed that this is more scheduling, more time out of school for the appointment and more $$. :rolleyes:

    I searched the forums and didn't see any mention of such a letter. Has anyone else dealt with this? FWIW, the letter was signed by the minority admissions officer. Could this be an extra step only for candidates from certain ethnic groups due to race-related risk factors?
     
  2. Roxymom

    Roxymom Member

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    From this nurse practitioner's viewpoint I'd have a few questions for them; how do they want body fat measured?? Is the MD supposed to have body calipers or are they just recalculating BMI on your son's current ht and wt? Height measurements often change depending on the level of the examiner's eye. Definitely remeasure.
     
  3. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    Your child should have received a Department of the Army form 5500 (DA 5500) and instructions on how to fill it out. Take that form to any Army recruiter and they will be able to fill it out. No need to see a doctor to have it filled out and the recruiter will not charge you. You might have to hear a pitch to enlist versus going to West Point, but they are just doing their job. It shouldn't take much time and there are recruiters all over.

    The Army has had entry weight and body fat standards for many years. They use measurements of the neck and waist for males and the neck, waist and hips for females to compute body fat percentage.

    This standard is not related to your child's race, it has to be met by all applicants.
     
  4. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Free college sure is inconvenient, huh?
     
  5. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Nope, no calipers. The process is measure abdomen three times, measure neck three times, do some math with this numbers and come up with a final fat estimate.

    GABN, you are right, it's the DA5500. I missed the recruiter option the first time through.

    I know there are height/weight standards. He already met the one for the AROTC process. I just didn't realize that there was a different one for USMA and that it was tied to a February before R-day date. This process is an ever-learning one. :smile:
     
  6. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    :thumb: We are already into four digits. But it will be worth it in the end.
     
  7. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    keep a copy of the DA5500 when you send it in to west point. good luck:thumb:
     
  8. haz

    haz Member

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    Just wondering what you have had to pay for. Our ds is a candidate for the class of 2017 and we have not had to pay for anything other than ACT which he needs no matter where he ends up
     
  9. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    I typed a long response and got logged out. :mad: So here's the condensed version.

    1) Multiple SAT/ACTs with results that had to be sent to four nomination sources and the academy. He would not have taken both or re-taken so many times if not for the SA.

    2) Transcripts to the same five. School charges for each.

    3) Theree remedials. One required records regarding a condition he had as a toddler. Over $100 for those since they charge by the page plus a "search fee".

    4) Second remedial stated that the Army would not pay for the visit.

    5) Third remedial required a doctor of a specialty that DODMERB did not have a contract for in our area. We found our own doc. Minor procedure was required (so we would have needed our own doc anyway). $700.

    That's about $1000 and doesn't even count SLS or Boys State. We haven't scheduled his "official" visit which will mean plane fare plus. And I don't even want to think about the personal trainer recommended by the FFR in the event he is allowed to retake the CFA and try to boost his WCS.

    I am not complaining, mind you. It will definately be worth it. But I wanted to answer your question. :wink:
     
  10. haz

    haz Member

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    Thank you for the answer Im glad we did not have to do any remdials. Good luck to you and your DS:thumb:.
     
  11. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Sometimes the path is straight and sometimes it's crooked. But the destination is the same. Good luck to your son too!
     
  12. Dixieland

    Dixieland Member

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    My cadet was able to do this through the school nurse. Does it specify a trip to the doctor's office?
     
  13. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    It says school nurse, doctor or Army recruiter. My ds's school does not have a nurse. They have someone trained to do things like monitor medications and give spinal screenings but when we did the ROTC version of this same standard, they told us she didn't count as a "nurse". I missed the recruiter option when I first read the letter. That's the one we will seek out.
     
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Yes, that's exactly what you're doing.
     
  15. Positivity

    Positivity Member

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    I don't see it as complaining...It would be frustrating to spend resources in that magnitude for anyone.
     
  16. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Frustrating to spend money on the necessities to give your child the education and opportunity of his dreams? Must be terrible, especially in light of all that tuition...oh...wait....

    Yes, some things cost money. Apllying to any top-tier university costs some money.

    USMA didn't make you pay for boys state. USMA isn't at fault for your son's need for a "personal trainer" (ludicrous, by the way). USMA didn't make him go to SLS. You admit your son needed the $700 procedure anyway. That's the price of being human, not of being an applicant.

    I commend you for providing many things to your son which improve his chances at ANY university. But to lay out a various and sundry list of all these financial "pains" and then say "But I'm not complaining" is just nonsense.
     
  17. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Chill out already. I was asked a question and I answered it. If you don't like the answer - too bad. You weren't the person I was responding to.

    Yes, applying to top tier universities costs money. And for my son, the tuition difference is going to be neglible since he has full tuition offers at multiple schools that didn't cost anything more than the application fee.

    Agreed. And that's why I didn't include it in my tally.

    Who said anything about "fault"? Or "need" for that matter. DS passed CFA even taking it at the end of the summer. I never would have thought of a PT. The FFR recommended it when it appeared that DS was heading to the NWL. I agree it's a little crazy and we haven't gone that route.

    Again, no argument. That was something extra that he was thrilled to do and that I didn't "count" in my $$ figure.

    I admitted no such thing. We didn't even know he had this, it never bothered him and wouldn't have needed any treatment if he wasn't pursuing SA/ROTC. It was only an issue for the Army not a needed procedure.

    With the possible exception of an extra try at the ACT, we wouldn't have been doing all this for "ANY university". Pursuing a service acadamy appointment is a unique situation and there are unique challenges. I wouldn't spend any of this extra time or money if it was just "in light of all that tuition". That's not why he wants USMA or the Army. If that was his reason, I would be discouraging, not encouraging him.

    You have a very vivid imagination. The only thing I "complained" about was this last (body fat test) and that was a lot more about the inconvenience and it being unexpected than about the cost.

    Read post #11. It was a valid question and I provided an honest answer.
     
  18. Vista123

    Vista123 Member

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    Scoutpilot,

    I dont feel the poster was complaining--and I am going to apologize in advance for straying waaaaayyy off topic here.

    This topic leads me to address something that is known but never really talked about-which is the true minorities in a service academy. I would love to see data on income of those accepted to the service academies (not couting enlisted)

    It is naive and foolish to think that money-and a lot of it- doesn't play a part in the admissions process. Comparing the application fees to a top university and to a service academy is like comparing sea monkeys to big foot.


    1) My son had knowledge of the history of the act scores of the previously admitted from our district. We live in a very competitive area. Every point towards WCS had to be treated like a golden nugget. Multiple SAT/ACTs had to be taken with results that had to be sent to four nomination sources, ROTC, and the academy. Yes, the ACT/SAT may been retaken but the amount of times taken for my son was directly related to the competitiveness of our district for the service academies-which leads applicants to not only take the test a million times but then all of the scores have to paid to be sent a million times. I can honestly state my son ended up taking the ACT/SAT 8 times-with each super score on a different test. Thus sending the score to a million different places. For his plan B school once his junior year and then again senior year would have been plenty. The Plan B school took test scores on the transcripts-no extra charge and no requirement to send MOCs his scores.

    2) Transcripts to the academies plus each nomination source cost money-and it all adds up. Our school also charges for each. The Plan B school does not require that extra transcripts to go to MOC.

    3) Yes, we could forgo the 1,000+ dollars to fly to 2 summer leadership seminars, but then he wouldn't be able to correctly answer the MOC when he asked "have you visited the academy? And did you attend SLS?" Also my son had to go buy appropriate clothes to wear to SLS-yup he didnt have a bunch of khaki shorts. He has dress pants for church and track pants for school. When he visited plan B colleges he was fine with what he had. Believe it or not he didn’t have a bathing suit to wear to NASS-he swims in shorts at home (im not kidding).

    4.) The CFA costs money. My son had a 7:20 mile initially-he had to shave off a lot of time. He owned basketball shoes-not running shoes ($100.00)running shoes-in an effort to shave running time down to pass the CFA (something plan B did not make him do) he had to invest in running shoes, sounds silly I know-but it is what it is and you cant run fast in basketball shoes. (he got down to a 5:25 mile). There is a personal trainer in our area as well who charges 50.00 per hour to help with the CFA. My son didn’t use him but we know those who did.

    5) ten million incidentals that all add up. My son, for example had 4 interviews at our house. I spent about 15.00 each time on cookies, fruit and lemonade to serve. ($60.00)-no interviews for plan B school. The weeks he traveled over summer made it impossible for him to get any consistent summer job. The summer before he raked in the money with three different jobs-this past summer he couldn't do that-with his home for a week, gone for a week, home for a week. gone for a week, home for a week etc schedule.



    6.) Boys State. Our state charges for boys state-its not cheap. He got no points for this for his Plan B school. He couldn’t sacrifice the points that he needed towards his WCS by not going to boys state.

    Something to additionally consider—not directly related to any application process but to further illustrate that putting together the “right profile” costs money. My son has used a private coach over the years-this put him in a position that allowed him to play a very high level of sports. This cost A LOT of money over the years. What about the families who couldn’t pay for that? My son got a 36 on the math section of the ACT. He also had a math tutor once per week since freshman year (his math classes were beyond my scope from 6th grade on ;) what about the families who couldn’t afford that? My son had speech therapy-privately (not covered by insurance) for years to fix that “R” sound that just wasn’t coming. Without that he would most likely have failed the read aloud portion of dodmerb. What about the families who couldn't afford that? You may argue that there are special circumstances with some applicants-those who had to work to help support their families for example. However, when you look at the athlete, scholar, citizen profile listed on the demographics page…well those kids aren’t really represented are they? Its high test scores, high level multiple sports and hundreds of volunteer hours. That cost money.


    All of this for no guarantee and with the knowledge that many apply and few get in. Will he get a free tuition (one nickel at a time…) perhaps, however his Plan B school will be about that given Merit scholarships. I also take exception to calling this a "free tuition." Given the service and sacrifice that our military personnel experience-Service Academies and ROTC programs arent really FREE. His merit scholarships are "more free"

    Additionally,These are not complaints-just the facts. It's "nonsense" not to give credence to the fact that this process can be a large financial strain on parents. Its also short sighted to chastise them for illustrating that fact. Though perhaps to some this money is not relevant. However, to others, every dime counts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I do enjoy the lectures as though I didn't attend West Point myself and go through the same procedures.

    The complaints (and they ARE complaints) about the cost of the multiple ACTs, the SATs, the scores....boo hoo. Don't want to take it twice? Prepare well the first time. Let me guess, that's just too much to bear. It's impossible, you'll say. Kids are too busy. My kid doesn't test well. Et cetera and so forth. It's no college's fault that other applicants scored better, and the choice to retake is your and yours alone. I suppose if he'd wanted to go to Harvard he'd have let the first scores stand? Of course not. If you don't live near a top-tier school you want, you travel to visit it. It's a function of how high you and your child want to aim.

    Had your son missed SLS, he would've absolutely been able to answer the question correctly when asked if he'd visited. The answer would have been "no."

    I'm always amazed that parents are so shocked to realize that their child gaining admission to a free university where a virtually unparalleled education is given free of tuition or room and board and which virtually guarantees that their child won't end up back on their couch after graduation isn't as simple as filling out the short form application to directional state. Yes, it's a tough process. But we aren't looking for kids who will major in semiotics and make pictures in latte foam at Starbucks. We're looking for kids who in four years can be handed the lives of 30-some other moms' kids and be trusted not to lead them into oblivion.

    You're right, there are no guarantees. Do with that what you will. Be as competitive as you want against the other candidates. But don't be mad about the high standards, or your choice to try to meet them.

    (I would think that with the name armydaughter you'd have known the Army has weight standards, btw).
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
  20. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Funny. As an officer in the Army, my father was not in the habit of telling his teenage kids about problems his soldiers were having meeting standards. Your experience seems to have been different.

    I was also in ROTC - never weighed or measured, not even at contracting time. As has been noted several times, the Army's focus on weight and especially body fat is relatively new. So what I experienced thirty years ago or what my father did fifty years ago isn't relevant.

    When DS had to do the paperwork for the ROTC scholarship that required verification of meeting height/weight standards, he asked both his FFR and the medical rep who was at a "ask all your questions" event hosted by the RC. BOTH told him that height weight standards were not a separate issue during the admissions process. You would think that with titles like that, they would have known, right? Not if the process is changing. None of us can read the future.
     

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