Is weight the new big deal?

armydaughter said:
But now, according to this letter he has to go to a doctor (more money) to get his body fat measured and then will have until February to meet standard or br deemed disqualified for USMA.

His portal says he is medially qualified and he received a letter that said he was fully qualified academically and physically.
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I'm going to give you a different answer. My learning as a parent and club rep familiar with many plebe struggles is that you don't want a candidate to head to USMA in anything but peak condition and ready to test. Which at USMA, largely means CFA / APFT type stuff. Including weight/height measures.

DS is a yearling. He spends quite a bit of time helping buddies, his plebe, his beast squad mates, his sports team pass the APFT and IOCT/mil movement via coaching & pacing. Some are weight lifters, some sports types, some girls dealing with upper body strength challenges. So far, nearly all have made it, but it's been a drain on them. Some were on their last chance. Nearly all have suffered academically and mentally.

We could say they should be allowed to drop, should not have been there, whatever. But, it's part of USMA.

So when I hear candidates asking about the minimum CFA, or waivers, my immediate thought is that it's the wrong approach. Better to deal with it now. It can make what should be a challenging but rewarding experience a mental grind.

The APFT favors gazelles. To a certain extent, so does Mil Movement/IOCT. And even the ruck marches, etc. DS is one, and does well, he's very close to super maxing it. Other body types who are equally fit have a very hard time with it. But it's a fact of life in the Army until they decide to change it. They'll take the APFT every semester, before MIADS, etc. And even though pullups are not on the APFT, most of the training involves confidence courses, where pullup type activity & rope climbs are mandatory.

So now would be a very good time to do some practice APFT's, and see if the height weight issue impacts it. If good to go, then waiver away. If borderline passing, then some work is in order. DS/DD has time, just start training.

Also recognize that a minimum "passing" APFT grade is graded quite low. (D or C-??) Many of the stocky types also are challenged by the IOCT shelf in Mil Movement. Both of these impact your cadet performance, which impacts MIAD choice, etc. we personally know cadets struggling with this, and some who were sent home. You don't want to start out at a disadvantage!
 
scoutpilot said:
Sure. Happily. Private school costs money. Generally speaking, a LOT of money. Money for something they could have had for free. Now, perhaps you thought the public schools didn't provide the best opportunity, and thus felt as though paying for a private school was a good move. I applaud that. But then to say "we're already four figures into this" about an admissions process, for a FREE education with a guaranteed $50,000 starting job, when a large portion of those charges were for things that, as oldcorpsdad pointed out, are not requirements at all (Boys State, multiple tests) but are simply another means of providing the best opportunity you can for your kid doesn't compute. You'll pay for four years of high school, but a few extra SATs (which help your admissions at ALL schools who superscore, not just SAs) and a trip to the doctor is too much?
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To bring back the discussion back to USMA a bit. From my 8+years as FFR, things being equal, kids from prviate schools seems to have some advantages for kids from public schools.

As stated I send my kids to a private school and plans to keep them in private school. I am a product of a public high school and I turned out okay. But as a parent, I want to do everything I can to give my kids the foundation to be successful in life.

I am finanically okay, but many of parents at my kid's school are hard working middle class families that place big emphasis on good education to make financial sacrifices to send their childern to a private school. So I could see easily how for SOME families any additional expanse could create finanical concerns.
 
Weight

Armydaughter....I was in my base commissary today and saw the cover of the Marine Corps Times was "Good Bye Fat Bodies" (the MC's terminology for overweight Marines)....I am not sure what the entire contents were, but there may be some helpful information in it about having to be taped vs. weighing in. I know the MC can be strict about weight; however, the Army may follow some of the same guidelines. Either way, I thought of this thread when I saw the cover. I wish your DS the best of luck in his endeavors! :thumb:
 
My DS was sent the same form very late in the process. So it is better to know in Nov then Feb. He was fortunate to have a 21" neck for the BMI. APFT is not a big deal, but Miltary Movement/IOCT is absolute bear for big guys. He passed and hopes to never visit that torture chamber ever again.
 
Weight vs BMI

On page 9 of the Instructions for Applicants Offered Admissions it states that cadets are evaluated on the weight and height standards outlined in AR 600-9.... Each candidate is responsible for meeting the standards prescribed in Table 3-1. I have reviewed AR 600-9 and it appears to give minimum weight requirements in Table 3-1 and Max. BMI in 3-2. My question is: Are minimum requirements measured solely by weight and maximums by BMI? and Is there a weight maximum? The most current version of AR 600-9 that I have located is 27 November 2006.
 
There is a minimum weight for each height (first column) as well as a maximum weight by age range for that height (subsequent columns). If a candidate exceeds the max weight, then they have to meet the BMI as determined by the tape test. In that, there is no per se max possible weight, but at a certain point, it really would get to be impossible to meet the BMI requirements.
 
Can you direct me to this table? Table 3-1 only gives minimum weight for each height and increases by age increments.
 
MNMom17 said:
Can you direct me to this table? Table 3-1 only gives minimum weight for each height and increases by age increments.
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Table 3-1:
First column is height
Second column is minimum weight for each height
Third column is maximum weight for each height for 17-20
Fourth column is maximum weight for each height for 21-27
etc.

For initial entry weight standards, please refer to AR 40-501, table 2-1/2-2 (page 19/20). This table is constructed similarly as AR 600-9, table 3-1. Once the candidate is complete with Cadet Basic Training, he/she will have to meet the standards in AR 600-9.
 
Thanks. My DD clued me in last night as to how to read the table. Thank you for being kind and not ripping me up for being so inept at reading it.
 
Yes - I believe it is spelled out more in the wording in either AR40-501 or AR600-9. Essentially those charts cut off around 13% - if you are below those and don't make weight, you won't become qualified.
 
Coming kind of late to the thread so I didn't really see all the posts. But in answer to the title question, yes.

From what I understand new cadets will be height/weight tested before they swear in. That way if they don't make it they can be told goodbye without all the costs/time of out-processing them.
 
I am not trying to be mean or nasty but this is the fact - the numerous standards for getting into West Point are high. Either meet those standards without complaining or go to Plan b.
 
scoutpilot said:
But we aren't looking for kids who will major in semiotics and make pictures in latte foam at Starbucks.
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Saw this between lines of my Baudrillard and Foucault readings, are you implying that West Point doesn't want people who major in hippy dippy post-structuralist philosophy? Come on! Just because I'm getting a B.S. doesn't mean sign value versus exchange value and the signifier isn't worth discussion!
 
weight charts

I had a look at the weight charts that someone posted the link to and I have to say they do not seem that difficult to attain. :
When other parents ask about my DS application prcoess to the SA's I always reply with
"The SA's have the luxury of finding what they deem to be perfect candidates"
It is not just about grades and test scores. These are going to be future leaders of troops and I for one would want my leader in the armed forces to be fit. :thumb:
 
Weight has always been the Army's new big deal

I enlisted as a WAC (yeah, I'm really old). We had weight standards then. After we assimilated into the regular Army, there were weight standards. Every time there was a personnel drawdown, height/weight standards were strictly enforced. The chunky people were constantly weighed and taped and made weight or got thrown out. I'm completely boggled that the OP had never encountered this. In 9 years as an NCO pulling ROTC kiddie camp detail, I weighed/taped scores of cadets. They all seemed to know about it.
As an aside on the cost thing, West Point is certainly an attainable goal without the big bucks. My cadet graduates next week. We couldn't afford SLS or more than one round of tests. His varsity sport was cross country because the only cost was a pair of shoes. He was accepted with a full scholarship to Boys State because we couldn't afford to have him take off work. Eagle Scout instead. The point is: if your child wants to attend USMA badly enough, he will do the necessary hard work to get there. Parental money is nice but the hard work is better
 
hopa75 said:
I enlisted as a WAC (yeah, I'm really old). We had weight standards then. After we assimilated into the regular Army, there were weight standards. Every time there was a personnel drawdown, height/weight standards were strictly enforced. The chunky people were constantly weighed and taped and made weight or got thrown out. I'm completely boggled that the OP had never encountered this. In 9 years as an NCO pulling ROTC kiddie camp detail, I weighed/taped scores of cadets. They all seemed to know about it.
As an aside on the cost thing, West Point is certainly an attainable goal without the big bucks. My cadet graduates next week. We couldn't afford SLS or more than one round of tests. His varsity sport was cross country because the only cost was a pair of shoes. He was accepted with a full scholarship to Boys State because we couldn't afford to have him take off work. Eagle Scout instead. The point is: if your child wants to attend USMA badly enough, he will do the necessary hard work to get there. Parental money is nice but the hard work is better
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Congrats to your Cadet on graduation:thumb:
 
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