jobs after grad

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by dcmom3, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. dcmom3

    dcmom3 Member

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    Hello
    For some of you that have been or are in the industry, can you estimate how many KP grads go right out on ships like the one portrayed in the movie Capt. Phillips? Do those routes go out to more Sr. seamen. Also, anyone have any information or experience with NOAA

    Thanks
     
  2. beyond

    beyond KπΣ15'

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    Depends on what you mean by "like the one in the movie." Big unlimited tonnage ships? All of the graduates that want to can find a berth on board a big container ship or tanker. The Alabama is on an MMP contact so you probably wouldn't get something that lucrative until you have some seniority with the union.

    I think what you're getting at here is the size thing. Kings Pointers graduate with an unlimited tonnage license, they can go down and work on tugs if they want to, but they have the option of doing something as big as the Alabama.

    Not necessarily the route, but the ship some ships pay more then others. If you graduate KP and want to go to Eastern Africa on a heavy lift ship it shouldn't be to difficult.

    On the deck side no one from KP goes NOAA. They have their own officer corps and joining with them would be starting at the bottom with lower pay. Not very many officers, limited growth, competitive, blah blah blah. I'm sure it's possible, I just don't know of anyone doing it.

    Their engineers for NOAA are supplied through MEBA so a few KP'rs end up working for them, but they typically don't pay as well and have runs that mean they are underway in remote parts of the world for long periods of time.
     
  3. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Side note: Riding the bus from the Metro in D.C. earlier this week, I saw a guy getting on with an "MMA" hat on. I thought "Merchant Marine Academy" but then I've never seen that without the "U.S." So I thought it might be Mass. Maritime or Maine Maritime.... and sure enough, it was Mass. Maritime (which is cool, because that's what I said outloud).

    I have about a 15 min. ride, and we sat next to each other so we started talking. Turns out he was a 1979 grad of MMA, with Capt. Phillips. Said he's a good, spiritual guy, even went to their homecoming reunion a few months after the big event.

    NOAA's pretty cool. Talk about a tiny officer corps. My old landlord is a NOAA pilot. Nothing but respect for them, they're not often understood or well resourced, but they're tiny and close.


    I realize nothing above answers any of your questions, sorry.

    And... good luck! :thumb:
     
  4. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    If you graduate from KP and decide to commission with NOAA you'll be board out of your gourd. Trust me on that one.
     
  5. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    The unions have multiple tiers of membership levels. The highest tier picks first and among those in the highest tier, the person who has been on the beach the longest gets first choice. Theoretically you can have a fairly recent grad picking a job before his/her dad/mom.

    Guys figure out the good ships and their schedules and manage to find a way to be there in the hall when the job they want is called. Everyone has their own idea though of what makes a ship "good" and a job will get passed over that some guys would sell out their mother for. My favorite cadet ship went open board regularly.
     
  6. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Fixed it for you.
     
  7. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

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    back in the days of 2 year shipping cards at MM&P I saw a 180 day 3rd Mates job on the SS MANULANI in the LA hall go to a 23 month 3 week old 'A' card. As I recall there were roughly 20 'A' cards thrown in for the job that day. The dispatcher didn't even bother looking at or ranking cards that were less than 12 months old.. They still had probably ten that were between a year and two years old. The 180 day 'LANI 2nd mates job was on the board at the same time but it went cheaper.. A 14 month old 'A' card took that.. Matson domestic jobs are still highly sought after and I've seen every sort of shenanigan to get them; up to and including the selling of mothers and sisters. I've even seen girlfriends and wives [or in some cases both] used for bargaining too. :eek:
    Even the Sailors Union of the Pacific had problems with keeping it so those Matson jobs were shipped on the 'up and up' and available to be bid on by all members. There was a scam called 'baseballing' that was run for years by certain of their membership that conspired to keep the gravy jobs. I've sailed with more than a few Matson 'Baseball' Bosuns.
     
  8. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    THANK YOU!!!
     
  9. KPMum2012

    KPMum2012 Parent

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    When you ask about NOAA, do you mean active duty NOAA corps or working for NOAA as a civilian employee? Commissioning into NOAA is an option for KP grads. But I think it is pretty rare. My daughter got a job with NOAA after she graduated. She is an engineer and was a member of their augment pool. The pay was OK, really good by non-KP standards. She worked on whatever ship needed a substitute 3rd engineer. She was able to work as much as she wanted and when she said she wouldn't be available for July, it was no problem. After about a year, she was offered a full-time position on one ship. She recently left to take a position with an MSC contractor in the Far East.

    She liked the work atmosphere in NOAA and met a lot of good people. The full time position meant working traditional full-time rather than the 30 or 60 days on and then the same time off that is common in the industry. On the negative, many ships are very small and aging. It was going to be pretty much impossible for her to maintain the unlimited classification on her license. The best part of NOAA for her was that it was a solid job, without waiting in a union hall for a ship, and they held the position for her when her graduation was delayed. I think she would have been reasonably happy staying at NOAA since she really doesn't plan to keep sailing. But for someone who wants to stay on board ships for their career, the inability to maintain an unlimited license could pose a real problem.
     
  10. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    For an engineer, its actually quite easy to maintain/upgrade an unlimited license.

    The USCG ganks it up by using the term "unlimited" to apply to both tonnage and HP.

    Over 1600 tons is "unlimited" and comes in the grades of 3rd Assistant through 1st Assistant and Chief. Over 500 tons and under 1600 tons is a "limited license" and comes in the grades of "Assistant Engineer - Limited" and "Chief Engineer - Limited". Under 500 tons is "Designated Duty Engineer" and comes in the grades of 1000HP, 4000HP and "Any Horsepower"

    Maintaining a 3A/E with no restrictions is quite easy and can be done with no sea time whatsoever. Upgrading to 2A/E is also quite easy and can be done with sea time on anything over 100tons provided the vessel has a "walk in engine room" and you are serving as a QMED or "equivalent supervisory position". I upgraded from 3A/E to 2A/E with all my time on a tugboat. As the only engineer on the boat I was considered by the USCG to be in said equivalent supervisory position. When I get around to actually upgrading again (I have the time and HP already), I will get 1A/E, "unlimited" HP and the biggest thing I've been on since graduation was about 300 tons.

    When upgrading an engineering license that has no HP restrictions, if half you have over 180 days with service on a vessel of at least 4000HP, you will not have any HP restrictions placed on your license. For less than 4000HP, there is a formula to determine the HP restriction which comes to around 1.5 times the HP most of your time is on.

    Personally ... they need to get rid of the term "Unlimited HP" in favor of "Any HP". Even a lot of the USCG personnel don't get it. I knew a guy with a Limited Chief Engineer, Unlimited HP license. He thought that was the same as Unlimited Chief Engineer and even the REC personnel told him he could sail as Chief Engineer on any vessel.
     
  11. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

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    Without sea time or with less than one year in the last five wouldn't you have to take a BST course in order to renew? I know mates have to.
     
  12. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

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    The last 3rd Mates job on the ALABAMA went to a 'D' book out of the Jacksonville hall. He threw a 6 1/2 month old card in to get the 120 day job. The two previous 3rd Mates were both 'A' books out of New Orleans. One threw in a 9 month old card and the other threw in a 10 1/2 month old card to get the 120 day job.. The ALABAMA must be a good feeder or something. It's either that or shipping must be tough in NOLA these days. 'Cause those are some pretty old cards to be wasting on a 3rds job on a ship doing a 'Foreign Legion' shuttle run between Mombasa Kenya, Salalah Oman and Djibouti.
     
  13. soccerkeeper1

    soccerkeeper1 Member

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    Where would one be able to read and learn about the Maritime Unions and what a "book" and "card" is?
     
  14. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2013
  15. KPMum2012

    KPMum2012 Parent

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    My bad, I believe DD meant upgrading to 2E was the problem. A little knowledge can be dangerous.:redface:

    As I recall, it was the HP that was the problem. There was no way she could get the 180 days? But don't quote me on the specifics. I'm recalling a conversation we had a few months ago when she mentioned it as an issue. It was, however, not the final reason she left NOAA. The opportunity to go to 60 days on, 60 days off working in the Far East with a higher salary was irresistible. :wink:
     
  16. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    STCW and the License are actually separate things even though you always got them together and now they come in the same book.

    The BST is required to maintain STCW, not the actual license. Its also not the seatime that you need but the continuous training and drills. I have about 700 sea days in the last 5 years but if my sea-time letter didn't include a statement to the effect of "participated in all mandatory training and safety drills" I would have had to take BST to keep STCW.

    For the license, Engineers just have three 50-question take home tests. Motors, Steam and Safety.
     
  17. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    You have to ask for every possible combination on the application, but she would have still been able to upgrade to 2AE with a HP limitation and kept 3AE with no HP limitation. When I upgraded to 2AE all my seatime was on a tugboat of about 140 tons. I got 2AE motors unlimited tonnage, 3000HP; 3AE all modes, unlimited tonnage, any HP.
     
  18. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

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    You are correct about the STCW and the license being separate and you can renew without BST. However I think an MMD with a valid STCW are needed in order to sail. When I was sailing Master, before I signed on a new crew member I would ask for discharges that would show 365 days seatime within the last 5 years. I would input discharge dates into an excel spreadsheet that would tell me if the crew member met the STCW requirement. If they didn't meet the requirement they didn't get signed on, never mind what their MMD said. Personally I think it's all a bunch of BS. The rules can be confusing and if anything can be 'ganked up' just leave it to the USCG/NMC/IMO to do it.. :wink:

    Below is the link detailing the actual requirements to renew.
    §10.227 Requirements for renewal.

    I'll be renewing my unlimited Masters license for the 6th time here in the next couple months. Hopefully it will all go smoothly for me.
     

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