Knowledge Tests > Help

[Pima]

I would add that most USAFA 4* cadets are currently taking 6 classes, extra curricular activities, dealing with upperclassmen, plus k-test. They will not have to deal with this many pressures at IFS. This is an enormous amount of pressure for 17 -18 year olds to deal with and many will struggle along the way.

You do know for AFROTC there are cadets at Ivies carrying 21 credits in Engineering, plus doing AFROTC, in a military fraternal society, and have the pressure as an AFROTC engineer cadet they must meet a 3.0 cgpa for SFT selection, thus commissioning? That scholarship is truly good for 2 yrs. No SFT equals dis-enrollment Commissioning is gone. Do you know how they rack and stack for SFT?
~~~~ Tech vs non tech cgpa.
~~~~ PFA scores
~~~~ LLAB
~~~~ Rank in the det.
Guess who has a voice in the rank? Upperclassman, the CWC, CVWC, CFC. AFROTC mimics AFA when it comes to upperclassmen cadets. They are the ones that tell the CoC their opinions. CoC rec is 50% of the SFT score. No ECs, poor PFT, low cgpa, and the game is over. Your DS was 2013 grad, Do you know for 13, the SFT selection rate for SFT was @55%?

Let's not play this game.

I agree with Stealth's post

Is that your opinion from experience? Son went through 4 years at USAFA and has told me that other than SERE, IFS was the most mentally challenging time he has ever had.

Why do you think those with a PPL take the waiver and not go through IFS? They request the waiver because it is a risk of busting!

This thread is about knowledge tests, you may chose to believe IFS is a cakewalk, or as an AFA grad they will wing. It is a hell of a lot harder than you can imagine. I respectfully ask that you read raimius's blog.

Just me, I would say to the OP tell her to try to learn a new way to study. Punctuation and bold face will matter.
~~~ It trips up alot of people.

aseanag,

As far as the flying world goes, calc doesn't matter. It may help, bit it doesn't matter. Handling the stick, simulators, AND academics do. Academics is not calc.

Don't know what AFSC your DS has, but I will tell you as a Mom, no news (phone calls) is good news. That it is 18 hr days 6 days a week even at IFS. Reason why is that the rated world is that competitive.

 

[kdc246]

Leadership from the class of 2014 MAY have just put things back to the way they were when they were 4*. DD did not have any trouble as she has a semi photographic memory, occasionally however, she would trip up on the punctuation (I know she failed one test for punctuation alone, everything else was correct). I recall her mentioning that in the years that followed her class, the tests were not as stringent as they had been for her year and prior. She never bad mouthed the idea that they got easier, but wondered how the other classes would fare in the long run. I do recall her saying, that when she became a Firstie that in her squadron at least, they would try to return the K test to its former glory and not a washed down version.

 

[Pima]

She never bad mouthed the idea that they got easier, but wondered how the other classes would fare in the long run. I do recall her saying, that when she became a Firstie that in her squadron at least, they would try to return the K test to its former glory and not a washed down version.

That says it all about why the AFA AND ADAF may decide to amp it up.

 

[aseanag]

You do know for AFROTC there are cadets at Ivies carrying 21 credits in Engineering, doing AFROTC, in a military fraternal society, and have the pressure as an AFROTC engineer cadet they must meet a 3.0 cgpa for SFT selection, thus commissioning? Do you know how they rack and stack for SFT?
~~~~ Tech vs non tech cgpa.
~~~~ PFA scores
~~~~ LLAB
~~~~ Rank in the det.
Guess who has a voice in the rank? Upperclassman, the CWC, CVWC, CFC. AFROTC mimics AFA when it comes to upperclassmen cadets. They are the ones that tell the CoC their opinions. CoC rec is 50% of the SFT score.

Let's not play this game.

I agree with Stealth's post


Why do you think those with a PPL take the waiver and not go through IFS? They request the waiver because it is a risk of busting!

This thread is about knowledge tests, you may chose to believe IFS is a cakewalk, or as an AFA grad they will wing. It is a hell of a lot harder than you can imagine. I respectfully ask that you read raimius's blog.

Just me, I would say to the OP tell her to try to learn a new way to study. Punctuation and bold face will matter.
~~~ It trips up alot of people.

aseanag,

As far as the flying world goes, calc doesn't matter. It may help, bit it doesn't matter. Handling the stick, simulators, AND academics do. Academics is not calc.

Don't know what AFSC your DS has, but I will tell you as a Mom, no news (phone calls) is good news. That it is 18 hr days 6 days a week even at IFS. Reason why is that the rated world is that competitive.

Pima let's not make this a war between the glories of AFROTC and the downfall of AFA! It not about IFS versus doolie year. Yes college is hard for all that attend! This is not about AFROTC at all. This is about K test and how difficult it can be for some 17/18 to deal with along with all that they are expected to do. Some 4* stuggle and some have no problems and manage to thrive. Many that do struggle will finally get to a point that they are able to succeed. Hang in there 2017 Recognition will be here before you know it!

 

[aseanag]

Let's not play this game.

I agree with Stealth's post


Why do you think those with a PPL take the waiver and not go through IFS? They request the waiver because it is a risk of busting!

This thread is about knowledge tests, you may chose to believe IFS is a cakewalk, or as an AFA grad they will wing. It is a hell of a lot harder than you can imagine. I respectfully ask that you read raimius's blog.

Just me, I would say to the OP tell her to try to learn a new way to study. Punctuation and bold face will matter.
~~~ It trips up alot of people.

aseanag,

As far as the flying world goes, calc doesn't matter. It may help, bit it doesn't matter. Handling the stick, simulators, AND academics do. Academics is not calc.

Don't know what AFSC your DS has, but I will tell you as a Mom, no news (phone calls) is good news. That it is 18 hr days 6 days a week even at IFS. Reason why is that the rated world is that competitive.

Pima IFS is hard never said it was a cakewalk. I never said that graduating from AFA is a guarantee of winging. Why do you do this?

OP hang in there, talk with your peer, study with your roomates, many have walked in your footsteps. Just do your best!

 

[aseanag]

At IFS, my expectation is to learn to fly to the required level in 3-4 weeks. Yes, this is my only job, but failure to meet that expectation will result in washing out and a retention/reclassification board with no guarantees. In my humble and inexperienced Lt opinion, the pressure associated with performance at IFS (and very shortly at UPT) is greater the activities you mentioned.

Buffalo,
I have heard IFS is a pressure cooker! Never denied how hard it is. Real concern for my DS when he attend IFS. My only point is 17/18 having a difficult time at USAFA with k test feel equal pressure do to there age and maturity level.

 

[Pima]

aseanag,

Has your child completed IFS or even tracked yet?

What posters are saying is don't play the credits/ecs game, because IPS at IFS and UPT don't give a crap.

Want to wing, than get use to boldface and punctuation.

According to you your DS will go IFS...tell him until he reports to IFS, study!!!!!
Miss a semi colon or period, he can fail!

Stealth said it.

Is that your opinion from experience? Son went through 4 years at USAFA and has told me that other than SERE, IFS was the most mentally challenging time he has ever had.

All I was saying is don't assume AFROTC has an easy life when it comes tio commissioning. Every AFROTC scholarship recipient is only guaranteed 2 yrs. Plus, don't assume at IFS or UPT they give one hoot if your child is an AFA grad. They only care about if the student gets it. Handles the stick! Cross winds? Sims? Academics?

Back on topic, learning how to study for this test will help if you want rated. The faster you can remember punctuation, and bold face; the better you will be off for rated slots.

Honestly,

It is up to them. If they want it, they will pass.

The AF has the right to change their parameters.
~~~~ It is what it is. Arguing if it should be different is BS. You agreed to their rules.

Study, study, study.
If it doesn't work out, than it doesn't work out. It is their fate!

If you want me to say they should not push the level higher because some cadets may fail Calc....sorry, I am not going to say it, The SAs are Ivy league level. If you want to play on the IVY league level, than accept their rules.

SAs are not just academics, it is jumping through hoops....MOC, DoDMERB. WCS, etc. These cadets fought for an appointment more than an IVY candidate, HOWEVER, because of noms, we truly don't know the REAL facts.

 

[skismuggs]

The reason they gave us was that they wanted us "to be the first class in recent history to have all of contrails covered by recognition." They said they want us to know a little bit of everything from contrails, rather than know a small amount of contrails very well.

Pima, i was just reacting to Lfrys post about the reason given to them as to why the ktests are harder this year. i should have quoted it earlier. i agree with you - set the bar high and keep it there, but dont "punish" one class for the shortcomings of the others which seems to be the tone that post. again i expect my child to do what is expected. thats a given.

 

[Bullet]

Two things:

1) There has been some great advice here on studying techniques under pressure and the important lesson of learning time management. Perhaps two of the largest reasons on the importance of the Academy experience, and why we want to have them. Seriously, ANYONE can go to a regular University and take some very hard academic courses along with a few extra curricular activities. The Academy experience is designed to amp that to 11, and learn from the experience, becuase we will expect MORE of you in the future.

2) I keep hearing about how hard and unfair this is for 17-18 year olds. That they need to be cut some sack here. Forget the whole IFS rabbit hole. Let me remind you instead that you're talking about an organization FULL of 18 year olds also just fresh form their parents protection, 18 year olds who are manning a post, or driving a HUMVEE on a very isolated and dangerous road in some not-so-friendly neighborhood, or on a flight line at 0230 making sure his jet is fixed and ready to support thos other 18 year olds on the ground tomorrow because without that air support they may not make it home.

So as we sit here wringing our hands over how tough it is on OUR 18 year olds because they are having trouble with academics and time management, 18year olds JUST LIKE THEM have it really tough, and wish they could have these type of worries.

And they are there at the Academy to learn that as well, because they will be leading them in just a few short years.

Seashell, I wish your child the best, and I think you got some very good advice here to help them on that road. I greatly appreciate your concerns, and your anxieties since this is so unfamiliar. I really hope you stay here and learn that we are all here to help, each in our different ways. You WILL make some great friends here along the way as well.

 

[aseanag]

Two things:

1) There has been some great advice here on studying techniques under pressure and the important lesson of learning time management. Perhaps two of the largest reasons on the importance of the Academy experience, and why we want to have them. Seriously, ANYONE can go to a regular University and take some very hard academic courses along with a few extra curricular activities. The Academy experience is designed to amp that to 11, and learn from the experience, becuase we will expect MORE of you in the future.

2) I keep hearing about how hard and unfair this is for 17-18 year olds. That they need to be cut some sack here. Forget the whole IFS rabbit hole. Let me remind you instead that you're talking about an organization FULL of 18 year olds also just fresh form their parents protection, 18 year olds who are manning a post, or driving a HUMVEE on a very isolated and dangerous road in some not-so-friendly neighborhood, or on a flight line at 0230 making sure his jet is fixed and ready to support thos other 18 year olds on the ground tomorrow because without that air support they may not make it home.

So as we sit here wringing our hands over how tough it is on OUR 18 year olds because they are having trouble with academics and time management, 18year olds JUST LIKE THEM have it really tough, and wish they could have these type of worries.

And they are there at the Academy to learn that as well, because they will be leading them in just a few short years.

Seashell, I wish your child the best, and I think you got some very good advice here to help them on that road. I greatly appreciate your concerns, and your anxieties since this is so unfamiliar. I really hope you stay here and learn that we are all here to help, each in our different ways. You WILL make some great friends here along the way as well.

Yes Bullet they will need to succeed or they won't make it......... I never said they should receive slack because they are young. Stop putting words in my mouth. But with that in mind it is tough for some USAFA cadet to make the adjustment. Keep in mind that we are talking about 17/18 year olds not 21/22 year olds. Maybe that is why they are currently learning to follow. The rest will come later.

 

[aseanag]

aseanag,

Has your child completed IFS or even tracked yet?

What posters are saying is don't play the credits/ecs game, because IPS at IFS and UPT don't give a crap.

Want to wing, than get use to boldface and punctuation.

According to you your DS will go IFS...tell him until he reports to IFS, study!!!!!
Miss a semi colon or period, he can fail!

Stealth said it.


All I was saying is don't assume AFROTC has an easy life when it comes tio commissioning. Every AFROTC scholarship recipient is only guaranteed 2 yrs. Plus, don't assume at IFS or UPT they give one hoot if your child is an AFA grad. They only care about if the student gets it. Handles the stick! Cross winds? Sims? Academics?

Back on topic, learning how to study for this test will help if you want rated. The faster you can remember punctuation, and bold face; the better you will be off for rated slots.

Honestly,

It is up to them. If they want it, they will pass.

The AF has the right to change their parameters.
~~~~ It is what it is. Arguing if it should be different is BS. You agreed to their rules.

Study, study, study.
If it doesn't work out, than it doesn't work out. It is their fate!

If you want me to say they should not push the level higher because some cadets may fail Calc....sorry, I am not going to say it, The SAs are Ivy league level. If you want to play on the IVY league level, than accept their rules.

SAs are not just academics, it is jumping through hoops....MOC, DoDMERB. WCS, etc. These cadets fought for an appointment more than an IVY candidate, HOWEVER, because of noms, we truly don't know the REAL facts.

No DS has not attended IFS yet. And the OP may not attend IFS after graduation either. He is currently inquiring about a way to be more successful with his K test. He looking for ways to be more successful. IFS is way off in his future. I never made light of the difficulties of IFS. The possibilities of IFS are scary. I pulling for all attending UPT/IFS and wishing them the very best.

 

[USAFA10s]

Oh I almost forgot!

One more memorization technique: Singing/setting quotes to the tune of a favorite song or nursery rhyme (and to help with punctuation, including the words "comma" and "period" in the song)

Good Luck to all! Memorization techniques will serve you well even after 4 dig year, so keep searching

 

[Pima]

aseanag,

You are correct, the OP's child may not attend any rated school, but since the AFA typically has a 50% rated AFSC, there is that 1 in every 2 chances come 4 yrs from now.

These yrs are hard on every cadet because they not only have to keep their eye on the short term goal, but also the long term goal too. It is a juggling act. A slip in one area today can impact tomorrow.

I was just saying to the OP this memorization issue is going to be in their future as an ADAF O1 in any school they attend for their AFSC. It is not going to end on commissioning day in 2017. It is something they have to figure out for their self.

If that desire is there, they will figure it out. If it is not, there is nothing wrong either. As you have stated aseanag, they are 17/18 yo kids. They are still figuring out what they want in the future.

Aseanag, one last thing.

with that in mind it is tough for some USAFA cadet to make the adjustment. Keep in mind that we are talking about 17/18 year olds not 21/22 year olds.

I think you missed what Bullet's point was.

Let me remind you instead that you're talking about an organization FULL of 18 year olds also just fresh form their parents protection, 18 year olds who are manning a post, or driving a HUMVEE on a very isolated and dangerous road in some not-so-friendly neighborhood, or on a flight line at 0230 making sure his jet is fixed and ready to support those other 18 year olds on the ground tomorrow because without that air support they may not make it home

That 18 yr old working in maintenance on an airframe needs to retain those BOLD items because now there are lives at risk. Place something in the wrong way, and somebody can die.

Contrails is not life or death like it is in the ADAF for an 18 yr old maintenance member.

When your DS goes to IFS and UPT you will find out that flights are cancelled because maintenance could not deliver enough jets to do a 10 turn 8 turn 4. Frustrating? Yes. But lives are at risk, and they follow the regs set forth, things that they must know verbatim, including punctuation.

Off topic, but if your DS is on casual status currently and will go to IFS, I hope he is taking the time to study. I also hope he is taking some flight lessons with a pilot that has an airframe like IFS. The stick is different. Pueblo in the winter can have weather conditions that are unique to CO.

Again, for anyone that wants an honest look at what UPT is like look at raimius's blog. You will see in hindsight that being hard on you for contrails made you a better student at UPT.

 

[Pima]

One more memorization technique: Singing/setting quotes to the tune of a favorite song or nursery rhyme (and to help with punctuation, including the words "comma" and "period" in the song)

LMAO. As someone that taught in elementary schools for yrs, I can't wash my hands without singing the ABC song. The children were taught to sing the song while they washed their hands for germs. It is rout now for me.

Ask me to recite ABC, and I immediately go into song, including when I do it backwards.

 

[aseanag]

aseanag,

You are correct, the OP's child may not attend any rated school, but since the AFA typically has a 50% rated AFSC, there is that 1 in every 2 chances come 4 yrs from now.

These yrs are hard on every cadet because they not only have to keep their eye on the short term goal, but also the long term goal too. It is a juggling act. A slip in one area today can impact tomorrow.

I was just saying to the OP this memorization issue is going to be in their future as an ADAF O1 in any school they attend for their AFSC. It is not going to end on commissioning day in 2017. It is something they have to figure out for their self.

If that desire is there, they will figure it out. If it is not, there is nothing wrong either. As you have stated aseanag, they are 17/18 yo kids. They are still figuring out what they want in the future.

Aseanag, one last thing.


I think you missed what Bullet's point was.


That 18 yr old working in maintenance on an airframe needs to retain those BOLD items because now there are lives at risk. Place something in the wrong way, and somebody can die.

Contrails is not life or death like it is in the ADAF for an 18 yr old maintenance member.

When your DS goes to IFS and UPT you will find out that flights are cancelled because maintenance could not deliver enough jets to do a 10 turn 8 turn 4. Frustrating? Yes. But lives are at risk, and they follow the regs set forth, things that they must know verbatim, including punctuation.

Off topic, but if your DS is on casual status currently and will go to IFS, I hope he is taking the time to study. I also hope he is taking some flight lessons with a pilot that has an airframe like IFS. The stick is different. Pueblo in the winter can have weather conditions that are unique to CO.

Again, for anyone that wants an honest look at what UPT is like look at raimius's blog. You will see in hindsight that being hard on you for contrails made you a better student at UPT.

DS is currently at graduate school and will attend IFS/UPT in the future. Back to my original point - many USAFA cadets will need to adjust to the rigors at the AFA. Some will succeed and some will not. It is the second month of there first semester and it is a tough transition for many. OP have your DS/DD try different studying techniques until he finds what works for him/her.

Contrail is not life or death but it may feel like it to them. Not sure I would equate the pressure of a 18 y/o maintenance airmen to a 18 y/o usafa cadet. That is like comparing apples and oranges. Note - not better or worst, harder or easier, just different!

DS took K test and I am fully aware of the challenges many freshman USAFA cadets face while handling all that is toss at them. It will be a roller coater ride!!!!!!!!!!

 

[aseanag]

Off topic, but if your DS is on casual status currently and will go to IFS, I hope he is taking the time to study. I also hope he is taking some flight lessons with a pilot that has an airframe like IFS. The stick is different. Pueblo in the winter can have weather conditions that are unique to CO.

Again, for anyone that wants an honest look at what UPT is like look at raimius's blog. You will see in hindsight that being hard on you for contrails made you a better student at UPT.

Pima I will pass along your advice to my DS. He is knee deep with graduate school but I know he will try to put in some time taking lesson and going over information on the DOS website. He has a few hours flying from high school and USAFA but really wants to do more. Best wishes to your son.

 

[Pima]

Contrail is not life or death but it may feel like it to them. Not sure I would equate the pressure of a 18 y/o maintenance airmen to a 18 y/o usafa cadet. That is like comparing apples and oranges. Note - not better or worst, harder or easier, just different!

Sorry, but I have to say UGGGHHH!

That 18 yo maintainer has more pressure on their shoulders than an AFA cadet. The life/lives of the aircrew are in their hands. One slip of the boldface can = death.

You are saying that as a 18 yo, it feels like life or death. I am saying, as an AF wife, that attended funerals (not maintenance issues), that 18 yos in the AF experience it.

SO, Yes, you are right it is comparing apples and oranges. The difference is the 18 yo enlisted member may have lived through a crash and understands more that boldface really matters in the ADAF world.

JMPO, you are coddling the AFA cadets, and that is my nicest thing. My worst thing is you don't respect an 18 yo working on the flight line. A flight line your DS will be on as a UPT student.

The crew chiefs and maintainers are the backbone of the AF. I hope your DS gets that. I hope he understands that the ring on his hand makes him no better than the kid that enlisted. That airframe can't get in the air without that 18 yo on the line. It is a team effort.

Remember for the next 11 yrs that your DS's life relies on the 18 yo maintainer. (1 yr UPT., 10 yrs after winging).

Sorry, but to me your attitude of officer vs enlisted is truly disheartening.

Why does these exams matter? Simply put, it is life or death when it comes to being an O1 ADAF member. Seriously, life or death. The 1st funeral I attended was 9 mos pregnant with our DS1. The widow had a 6 week old baby. Her DH was an AFA grad. I attended 5 more funerals before Bullet retired. I don't know for sure, but I am willing to bet my Myrtle they went through the checklist in their last moments. Memorization of boldface equated into getting through the check list faster.

OP, ignore the sound here regarding the posts. Talk to your child. Research career options. There are 4 yrs in front of her, and she can make it through. However, also take this time to ask is she doing this for her or for other reasons.
~~~~I.E. We never felt the AFA was a good fit for our DS. He had 5 noms, 1490 SAT, 9 APs, Jump start. Nat. TKD champ, lifeguard, etc.
~ He was an AF dependent, and wanted Govt. has his major.
~~~~ We pulled him aside and asked why the AFA? He said because it was free. He worried more about the financial impact on us, than the stress he would endure. He pulled his package, and accepted the AFROTC scholarship with college merit.

Ask her is this something more than the Contrails? Is it a self infliction? It is hard to tell the folks, I made a mistake, especially if going there was a bragging point. Trust me, we all brag. The kids hear it.

 

[hornetguy]

Pima I will pass along your advice to my DS. He is knee deep with graduate school but I know he will try to put in some time taking lesson and going over information on the DOS website. He has a few hours flying from high school and USAFA but really wants to do more. Best wishes to your son.

I would definitely encourage him to get some airtime as money/time permit. I finished my PPL here in Los Angeles when I got here for grad school. I've heard consistent advice from UPT IPs and Studs that getting some time just to have your hand on the stick (sts) is valuable. I'm heading to UPT in a few weeks and I'm trying to find a couple hours to get myself up in a little Piper just as a refresher.

 

[aseanag]

Sorry, but I have to say UGGGHHH!

That 18 yo maintainer has more pressure on their shoulders than an AFA cadet. The life/lives of the aircrew are in their hands. One slip of the boldface can = death.

You are saying that as a 18 yo, it feels like life or death. I am saying, as an AF wife, that attended funerals (not maintenance issues), that 18 yos in the AF experience it.

SO, Yes, you are right it is comparing apples and oranges. The difference is the 18 yo enlisted member may have lived through a crash and understands more that boldface really matters in the ADAF world.

JMPO, you are coddling the AFA cadets, and that is my nicest thing. My worst thing is you don't respect an 18 yo working on the flight line. A flight line your DS will be on as a UPT student.

The crew chiefs and maintainers are the backbone of the AF. I hope your DS gets that. I hope he understands that the ring on his hand makes him no better than the kid that enlisted. That airframe can't get in the air without that 18 yo on the line. It is a team effort.

Remember for the next 11 yrs that your DS's life relies on the 18 yo maintainer. (1 yr UPT., 10 yrs after winging).

Sorry, but to me your attitude of officer vs enlisted is truly disheartening.

I have every confidence in the 18 year old maintainer. I have every confidence in the AF system to assure that there is quality checks at every level including the pilot. There you go putting words in my mouth. I just said they were different ( not better or worst) DIFFERENT. Just like a hammer and a screwdriver both are neccesary but are different. Really cant do much without both.

I hope the UGGGG wasn't about my best wishes for your DS!

I really dont appreciate you telling me what I have said when I have said none of what you have stated. If you are going to tell me what I have said make sure you quote me correctly.

Coddling AFA cadet???? I am just letting a parent know that the process is difficult and the transition will have growing pains. It is early in the semester and some cadets will need to adjust to make it thru. Not usually at all. This is the AFA portion of this forum. I am speaking about experience that USAFA cadets may endure as far as the k test are concern. Parents, many cadets will get thru one milestone at a time. But with persistence they will make it.

 

[aseanag]

I would definitely encourage him to get some airtime as money/time permit. I finished my PPL here in Los Angeles when I got here for grad school. I've heard consistent advice from UPT IPs and Studs that getting some time just to have your hand on the stick (sts) is valuable. I'm heading to UPT in a few weeks and I'm trying to find a couple hours to get myself up in a little Piper just as a refresher.

Thanks honetguy,
I will double my efforts.