Late Graduation

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by galarad113, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. galarad113

    galarad113 New Member

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    This might seem like a dumb question but I was wondering if there are any AROTC regulations regarding graduating after comissioning? Say a student is enrolled in a 5 year engineering degree (those do exist) and a cadet needs an extra semester or two after comissioning to complete his degree? Is it possible to complete the advance course in May but not actually graduate until one or two semesters later? My electrical engineering degree takes five years to complete besides the rotc curriculum and taking 18 credits a semester back to back does not seem duable.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You can't be commissioned unless you hold an undergrad degree. There is no commission as an officer and stay in college as a student option. Caveat: unless you are in grad school and that is a different ball of wax.

    18 credits is way doable. It is not uncommon for STEM majors to pull 18-21 credits per semester. My DS is a bio-chem major (not in ROTC) and has always carried 19-21 credits every semester. It would be the exception not the rule to carry less than 18 as an engineering major. My DS1 was a dual non-STEM major and he carried 19 credits every semester.

    ROTC is a 1 credit course.
     
  3. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Cadet Command has been cracking down on this recently as more and more people were slipping through the cracks needing to finish up a course or 2 after technically being commissioned. Unless you have a graduation confirmation from your University, you are NOT, under any circumstances, even allowed to participate in commissioning.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Curiosity question -Bull- were the ones that slipped through going AD? Just wondering if let's say the cadet was going to go Guard or Reserve and the unit they are going to allowed it, but AD did not. Hence, now Army is cracking down on everyone.

    I know AFROTC is different, but I would have thought all of the branches regarding commissioning would have been the same. AFROTC requires the dets. to verify with the schools that they indeed passed their final finals and will be graduating. All AFROTC grads go ADAF, there is no Guard or Reserve option, thus that is why I ask.

    I could see maybe them slipping through the cracks and doing a "frocking" commissioning with the class in May if, let's say they have 2 classes left to take over the summer, and prove that they are registered for the classes. Yet, the way the OP is talking it appears they are not talking about 1 or 2 classes, but extending 1 or 2 semesters with a full course load = making them a 5 1/2 or 6 yr engineering student.
     
  5. leapyear

    leapyear Member

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    Bull is right on. DS graduated and commissioned a couple of weeks ago. He was also an engineering major, and needed one extra semester (4.5 years) to complete the curriculum. The cadre made it very clear that he would NOT be allowed to commission nor participate in the ceremony on Saturday unless the registrar confirmed to the AROTC office by Friday afternoon that he had met all requirements for graduation (the fact that he requested and received Army Reserve rather than AD made no difference.) They were also informed that the PMS had no authority to waive the requirement. Add to that the fact that the registrar was closing early that day, and that in order to accomplish the confirmation all of his professors had to grade his final exams and post his final grades several days before they were actually due (in fact, one of the required grades was for a class for which he had taken the final exam only that morning.) Thankfully all of the professors were understanding and came through for him; if just one had said "that's not my problem," he would have been out of luck.
     
  6. galarad113

    galarad113 New Member

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    Thanks gentlemen!!!
     
  7. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Yes, PIMA. I was in a rush earlier (delayed flights and all that fun), what I really meant was they were allowed to go through the commissioning ceremony like normal they just didn't sign the Oath of Office because you're correct that you must have the degree to actually commission. They would do that part when they finished whatever class was needed. The cases I saw of that we're usually errors with the academic advisors where one told a student they were good then come to find out when doing a graduation audit they, in fact, needed a class or 2. However, AROTC has really cracked down on cadre and told them cadets can't even pin on bars or anything in a ceremony until grad confirmation is received.

    I did know of a guy a couple years ago who graduated, diploma and all, and 6 months later the school told him he needed another class. I think he was good since they had sent him grad confirmation and his diploma. He was already halfway through flight school.
     
  8. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Can't commission without a degree...I'm guessing you aren't the first Cadet to go through this 5 year engineering program, so I'm wondering why you haven't talked to the cadre at your school about how it is done. They should have explained to you that if you have an established academic plan that will require 5 years then that is what is expected of you...graduate and commission in 5 years. That should also be reflected on your contract, if you have one.
    Can't tell from your original post if you are currently in College or not. If you are just an applicant when you visit your campus of choice and talk to someone from ROTC, or when you do your PMS interview (which I hope you'll try to do at your school of choice) you will ask about the 5 year program and get the most accurate information.
     
  9. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

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    While on an ROTC visit last Fall to Boise State, the ROO told my DD that nursing is a 4.5 year program for the ROTC cadets there. They extend whatever scholarship you receive 2, 3, or 4 year to cover that last year meaning it simply starts either your freshman, sophomore or junior year but will cover you until you graduate (this may be a campus based extension, I do not know). However, he was very clear that from day one they plan the class load to go past 4 years, and that she would not commission until she graduates. At another school she is considering they told her it would be a 9 to 10 semester program, again, 4.5 to 5 years for nursing to get all the clinicals in and be a part of ROTC.
     
  10. SPM

    SPM Member

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    My DS is also on the 4.5 year program and won't commission until next December. Typically his battalion commissions several cadets at that time but he did have to work with his cadre to get it approved. He tells me that at his school it is fairly common for certain majors, particularly STEM, to take 4.5 years. Talk to your cadre and find out what they say.

    Another point -- Pima said ROTC is a 1 credit course. I don't know if it varies by school but my DS's MSIV course is 4 credits and requires 4 credits worth of work. And my DS ran out of electives to count the ROTC courses towards by sophomore year. There were only something like 6 pure elective credits in his program. This is one of the reasons he is delayed (change of major is the other) -- he actually has enough credits to graduate now but will be missing a couple of required courses.

    Another note on STEM majors -- both of my kids are science majors and find that their lab courses while only providing one credit are every bit as much work (if not more) as their 3 credit lecture courses. They have separate professors, separate homework, separate exams. So carrying 17 credits including a couple of labs is often more like carrying 20 or 21 credits.

    While I don't doubt that some cadets are able to maintain outstanding GPA's and that level of credit load but others for various reasons (require more study time, nature of the other course requirements, etc.) may need more time. Talk to your cadre.
     
    cajuncarrier and wildcatmom like this.
  11. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Credit hours will vary by school. ROTC was more than 1 credit at my school as well.
     

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