Leaving USMMA

Why Not?

What if academics do seem to be the major part of the issue of a plebe wanting to leave USMMA? After midterms, plebe is unlikely to pass enough classes this trimester to be able to continue.This is despite genuine effort, tutoring, study halls, etc. Though I do not want plebe to leave now, if he is looking at a fairly certain dis-enrollment in a month, and no longer wants to be there ( change of mind/heart regarding maritime industry) for any reason...what is to gain from staying through the end of this trimester? This is such a complex issue, as we all know what these young men and women went through to get into this school. As a parent, I know many young college students change their minds/majors...but when you have to leave KP to do so, it is heartbreaking to see a dream come to an end.

A couple of key items: 1) "unlikely" is not a certainty. 2) "what is to gain from staying through the end of this trimester?" The courses that Plebes take first and second trimester are primarily applicable to virtually any BS degree at any major university's course of study. In order for any of those credits to transfer or even translate to waived prerequisites they must be completed through the entire trimester. To me the question is more correctly "What is to be gained from leaving before the end of the trimester, especially now, in mid-January? It's too late to enroll, even in a local community college's winter term and staying through March will generally not preclude doing so for the next term. 3) RE: "(change of mind/heart regarding maritime industry) ... I know many young college students change their minds/majors...but ..." There is a reason KP is rated as one of THE BEST Undergraduate Institutions in the nation to get your Bachelor's degree from - because it is. All the available majors when completed including the sea year provide a great education that truly form a sound foundation to do pretty much anything in future life. I know I am now personally 25+ years removed from my own attendance, but I am now basically on my third career. I have classmates who today are doing such a wide variety of things I can fill the page. Many of course had to and did pursue and obtain post graduate educations to do what they are doing, further many folks in other renowned colleges for their under-grad degrees also routinely accept they will need a post grad degree to achieve their ultimate career goals. All the Kings Point Grads I know who ended up having to do that were much happier doing so while either i) having their employers pay at least part of the cost of the graduate degree or ii) having their own money available from sailing on their license and attending grad school without racking up $150K+ of student loans, etc. and they all enjoyed eating stuff besides Chef Boy-R-Dee from a can.

Sorry if this is a bit harsher or blunter than it might otherwise be but it sounds like all involved need to really step back and realize two things. First as happens to many smart, accomplished student in any competitive high caliber college, this is probably the first thing in the subject midshipman's life that actually has really been difficult for them and they aren't used to that sort of thing. Second, if they make it and/or choose to stay, their fears are correct, getting through this trimester in and of itself won't likely be the last bump in this road as they may have to take a lag class or something else that adds to the workload next trimester. All that said, I will say it again IMO in 98+% of the cases of kids who made it this far, fighting till the finish line and graduating, if at all possible, is worth it. That's why to me it's not a complex issue at all, the choice was pretty straight-forward to me 27 years ago and on those bad days, weeks, months it seems it is also so for my own DS.

That's not to say that right now the subject midshipman's day isn't stress filled, no fun. Or that, pardon the vernacular, when they hear about a great party at "Faber College" where their high school friend had a great time, got drunk with their friends and met the best looking hottie they could have imagined and will be going out next weekend, they don't feel their life stinks. I mean Murphy's Law says they get that news when they are cleaning up some first classman's vomit after they came back from liberty late, while your plebe DS/DD has to do "head" for their cleaning station. However and I know this gets said way too much and too often, 3 1/2 years from now when they graduate and have a good job while that friend scurries to figure out what's next, they will begin to understand why it was worth it. Perhaps the best and most important lesson our kids learn at KP is life isn't fair but if you persevere and keep your eyes on the goal, you usually do a lot, lot better than those who don't.
 
A couple of key items: 1) "unlikely" is not a certainty. 2) "what is to gain from staying through the end of this trimester?" The courses that Plebes take first and second trimester are primarily applicable to virtually any BS degree at any major university's course of study. In order for any of those credits to transfer or even translate to waived prerequisites they must be completed through the entire trimester. To me the question is more correctly "What is to be gained from leaving before the end of the trimester, especially now, in mid-January? It's too late to enroll, even in a local community college's winter term and staying through March will generally not preclude doing so for the next term. 3) RE: "(change of mind/heart regarding maritime industry) ... I know many young college students change their minds/majors...but ..." There is a reason KP is rated as one of THE BEST Undergraduate Institutions in the nation to get your Bachelor's degree from - because it is. All the available majors when completed including the sea year provide a great education that truly form a sound foundation to do pretty much anything in future life. I know I am now personally 25+ years removed from my own attendance, but I am now basically on my third career. I have classmates who today are doing such a wide variety of things I can fill the page. Many of course had to and did pursue and obtain post graduate educations to do what they are doing, further many folks in other renowned colleges for their under-grad degrees also routinely accept they will need a post grad degree to achieve their ultimate career goals. All the Kings Point Grads I know who ended up having to do that were much happier doing so while either i) having their employers pay at least part of the cost of the graduate degree or ii) having their own money available from sailing on their license and attending grad school without racking up $150K+ of student loans, etc. and they all enjoyed eating stuff besides Chef Boy-R-Dee from a can.

Sorry if this is a bit harsher or blunter than it might otherwise be but it sounds like all involved need to really step back and realize two things. First as happens to many smart, accomplished student in any competitive high caliber college, this is probably the first thing in the subject midshipman's life that actually has really been difficult for them and they aren't used to that sort of thing. Second, if they make it and/or choose to stay, their fears are correct, getting through this trimester in and of itself won't likely be the last bump in this road as they may have to take a lag class or something else that adds to the workload next trimester. All that said, I will say it again IMO in 98+% of the cases of kids who made it this far, fighting till the finish line and graduating, if at all possible, is worth it. That's why to me it's not a complex issue at all, the choice was pretty straight-forward to me 27 years ago and on those bad days, weeks, months it seems it is also so for my own DS.

That's not to say that right now the subject midshipman's day isn't stress filled, no fun. Or that, pardon the vernacular, when they hear about a great party at "Faber College" where their high school friend had a great time, got drunk with their friends and met the best looking hottie they could have imagined and will be going out next weekend, they don't feel their life stinks. I mean Murphy's Law says they get that news when they are cleaning up some first classman's vomit after they came back from liberty late, while your plebe DS/DD has to do "head" for their cleaning station. However and I know this gets said way too much and too often, 3 1/2 years from now when they graduate and have a good job while that friend scurries to figure out what's next, they will begin to understand why it was worth it. Perhaps the best and most important lesson our kids learn at KP is life isn't fair but if you persevere and keep your eyes on the goal, you usually do a lot, lot better than those who don't.

Spot on! Whenever a midshipman leaves by choice (or not) there is a sign out process that takes them to every department. I always ask them what happened, and what they are going to do. Often for those resigning the answer is "I want to be a ___________." My response is always "Maybe you should talk to so and so, class of XX, who is the leading __________ etc." I have yet to be stumped. Plebes are just getting to the point in January where they have been here long enough to know just little enough about what they are getting into that they really no nothing at all about their future.

Midterm grades often have very little relationship to the end of the term. Things can turn around very quickly. I'm more than happy to talk to any mids in this situation. My advice for them is remarkably similar to my advice for abandoning ship- always step up into a lifeboat- or don't leave the ship till its sunk.
 
I also suggest that anyone thinking of leaving KP due to grade problems and/or morale problems speak to Mr. and Mrs. Guest at Cookie Cafe. They can provide invaluable advice and comfort. My ds, is a setback and they were very helpful to him, especially in facing squarely his setback. He came home, took classes locally (both those he failed plus some additional classes in order to be a full time student to retain our health insurance) and went back to KP stronger and more determined. Is it still hard? You bet!! But his attitude is much more mature and his understanding as to what is at stake for his future is much more enlightened. It is definitely worth seeking out the Guests for input among others.
 
Talked to my son yesterday. Things are getting a little better for him, but it has been a difficult Tri for him as well.

He is digging out of a big hole in Physics (Prof from the former U.S.S.R. is terribly difficult for him to understand) and of all things some kind of screw up on his swimming grade?

Anyway, the only advice I had for him is he must find a way to adapt and overcome. Told him he has what it takes and not to let anyone convince him otherwise......... Keep digging, look for mentors, talk talk talk to advisors, the teacher/profs upper classman, hell even talk to the dog (forgot his name).....He did mention they had a significant inspection this past weekend and he got a 95. I reminded him that he would not be disenrolled for a less than perfect inpsection, so academics are 1st, and 2nd priority.....(I'm probably going to take some flak for that. I understand the need to juggle and get it ALL done, but, if a ball is going to hit the ground, then chose which one!)
 
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There is certainly a reason this Tri is called the Dark Ages for our plebes.
I agree lets listen ...encourage and hope that they ALL can find the strength to endure and succeed
 
Talk about the Dark Ages! Just heard from DS that KP was without power for 3 hours today - no lights, no computer, some classes canceled.:eek:
 
Maybe with no lights or classes the plebes got to take a nap or were allowed to rackin. No matter how dark or dismal it seems, they need to hang in there, try their hardest, this was if things do not work out they can look back and say honestly " I did all I could have done" If they think they are doing it all, look for more help and do more. The plebes have to take each day one by one. If that is to difficult then break it down to each hour, minute or second.
Make sure they find IsTodayForHim. He is the best and a wonderful resource.
 
This has been great to have so many responses to this thread. I am reassured that many things I had already advised have been suggested by others. I am also pleased to see that it is a thread of interest to more that just my friend and I. It was a bit unnerving to set up a new identity and start a thread as I am not usually the starter but I hoped there would be some answers and there have been. Thanks especially to all the PM senders. I won't be disclosing the Plebe in question without their permission which I do not have. But there are others in the same boat so keep up the advice and suggestions as the Dark Ages are not over. Thanks for getting us thru Indoc and now if we can make it thru to spring the Sea Year will loom.........just another bump. What a great group!:thumb: mom
 
black outs

Talk about the Dark Ages! Just heard from DS that KP was without power for 3 hours today - no lights, no computer, some classes canceled.:eek:

We had quite more than just one three hour black out we had three black outs. one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and another at about 730 at night not coming back on untill about 2 am.
 
As a 4/c cadet at CGA....I distinctly remember liking black outs.

Try to remember if your lights were on or off before the black out....that can be a little alarming when the lights come back on at 2 a.m.......as does the fire alarm tripping once the power comes back on.
 
We had quite more than just one three hour black out we had three black outs. one in the morning, one in the afternoon, and another at about 730 at night not coming back on untill about 2 am.

No internet, IM, or Facebook for 5 hours....probably the best thing to happen to the regiment in years! We should turn the power out every night.
 
No internet, IM, or Facebook for 5 hours....probably the best thing to happen to the regiment in years! We should turn the power out every night.

It was not as productive as one might think with teachers who believe in using webassign for thier home work rather than problems from the book. this further proves how webassign is a horrible thing to use at any school.
 
It was not as productive as one might think with teachers who believe in using webassign for thier home work rather than problems from the book. this further proves how webassign is a horrible thing to use at any school.

productive? no. but most night at KP aren't productive anyways. if you are convinced that they are, you're probably just lying to yourself.
i found the power outage to be quite refreshing as it gave me an excuse to get a full night's sleep and unteathered me from the god-forsaken computer for a few hours. :thumb:
 
Grades

This has been the toughest term for my plebe so far. The dark winter days aren't helping any. I know he doesn't want me to "helicopter" parent at all but can someone tell me if they still have tutoring available? He got through the Physics last term with tutoring help but it's the advanced Calc class that's been so tough this term especially since the old teacher left in the middle of December. He has been soooooooo discouraged since being back from Christmas break...:frown: I try my best to encourage him though nothing I say or do seems to help but I KNOW he's got it in him to get through these "dark" days if he just keeps on keeping on. I'm grateful he's not alone in this and that there are people on campus he can turn to... I just pray he takes advantage of the help that is out their!
 
upperclassmen can and will help. every company has a midshipman tutor list posted on main deck that will give you the name of mids in that company that are good at that particular subject and are willing to help him. he's gotta put forth the effort of finding them... they won't search him out.
these times are called the dark ages for a reason. it's not a fun time for anyone here, but we've all been there and if we can make it through, so can they.
his ability to make it through this place is based on his determination to make it through, not yours, mine, or any one else's. it can be done. :D
 
Even though the consensus of those posting here on this thread of "Leaving USMMA" is not to do it....some of us are still facing the situation that our d/s or d/d may be making that choice over the next few weeks - by their choice, or by the school's direction for failing grades this term. Looking at the number of views on this thread - this is certainly appears to be a topic of great interest. And, if about 1/3 of each entering class will not make it through the 4 years - that is a pretty high number of departures, for many reasons I am sure - so this experience does affect alot of mids and their families. With the competitive and extended process involved in getting into this Academy, this statistic continues to surprise me. My plebe tells me each time I talk to him of others currently or recently in the process of dis-enrollment -and expects this will continue and escalate as this trimester continues.
I agree that leaving USMMA is a huge decision on the part of a student. I am wondering if there might be families or ex-students out there who have been through this and still view this board - and might have something to share with us about their experience with this. If they are not comfortable posting about this, I would welcome a pm. Did they regret it? Did they choose to go back if offered a setback? Did they leave voluntarily? Do they chose to enlist? Did they go on to another college situation? (somehow, as bright, motivated, and accomplished as these young men and women are who chose to attend USMMA - I can't see too many of them not going on to complete their college educations, in some other field of study)
With this path of leaving USMMA eventually affecting close to a third of the entering class, I would just like to know more about how people have handled that. This forum has been a wonderful source of information and support, and I hope we can honestly and carefully address this topic that seems to be, sadly, a not-uncommon course for a large number of midshipmen. I am not finding many past threads on this topic.
 
There is at least one person that I know of on this board who had a s/d leave USMMA and continue on at another institution. I will PM them and have them take a look at the thread, I'll leave it to them to post or not.
 
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