LET 2013 RING!!!!! KP Parents, Alumni and All Concerned Please Read

[LineInTheSand]

:::takes a bow:::

 

[KP2013Momm]

To change the long standing tradition of bell ringing is cruel, punitive, demeaning, demoralizing and sad. The class of 2013 has been through so many changes that this change can only cause bitterness and hurt. As a parent, I find it disheartening and so unnecessary. The Administration should be in the position to support and encourage our young men and women not knowingly harm them.

I am hoping that those in power can see how much the bell ringing ceremony means to the mids who are working so hard to prepare for their big exam. These mids should be applauded and rewarded.

In the meantime if I could rent and bring to (or near) campus the biggest loudest bell that was ever made. I would. I would then find a place to set it up and let the mids ring to their hearts content.

I believe that our mids deserve and have earned this tradition.

If this ruling stands then I have full confidence that our mids will respect the decision and do what they feel is in their best interest. As long as they are respectful of KP and those in charge they will have my full support.

 

[KP2013dramamama]

This is good stuff! But I think the regiment has to rise up and NOT the parents.

Well noted. My husband has a few choice words about the powers at KP/MARA right now and is quite concerned that any one "not following the rules" could possibly not graduate, due to what appears to be the capriciousness of this new ruling. Could that possibly happen?

 

[KP2013dramamama]

Any wavering from Tradition and Unbridled Joy won't replace what the mids deserve. Otherwise, it's micromanagement

DING DING!

(I know I'm not a KPer)... but if midshipmen hate this new policy, why don't they all not ring the bell.... and then ring it later at the non-designated time?


I was a 2/c cadet in an constitutional law class at CGA. There were also 1/c in the class and one 3/c (a rather idiotic 3/c who would not graduate two year later). After a number of week the seating just fell into place. It wasn't "assigned"...but people sat in the same spot.

Then one day the 3/c sits in a 1/c's seat. The 1/c came in and said "you're in my seat 3/c BLAH". The 3/c said "there aren't assigned seats" and the conversation started with basically evolved into the entire class saying "3/c move".

In comes Commander XXXX, we came to attention and the commander says "seats" But no one sits. The commander looks up after about 5 seconds, at the entire class standing... and he says "um, what's going on"

Someone says "3/c XXXX is in the wrong seat."

The commander looked over, "3/c XXXX move."

Problem solved, everyone sat.

If the midshipmen don't want to ring the bell under these conditions, and there is a tradition of light civil disobedience....then why don't all the members of the class go to the formation, but no one ring the bell? Then go back together, later, and ring the bell. Heck, want to make a real statement, ring it at night, loud and proud.

Now THAT would be a story to tell 20 years down the road.

I watch the video and it was good to see people so excited.

 

[KP2013dramamama]

KP2013Momm you and I are cut of the same cloth. I have many ideas, but it's up to the mids. I too pray the powers can see how much the bell ringing means to the mids. But eventually, these intelligent young men and women will do what is in their best interests........then, maybe, they will circle the wagons after graduation with some very important people and "make a statement that will never be forgotten" in an effective way.

To change the long standing tradition of bell ringing is cruel, punitive, demeaning, demoralizing and sad. The class of 2013 has been through so many changes that this change can only cause bitterness and hurt. As a parent, I find it disheartening and so unnecessary. The Administration should be in the position to support and encourage our young men and women not knowingly harm them.

I am hoping that those in power can see how much the bell ringing ceremony means to the mids who are working so hard to prepare for their big exam. These mids should be applauded and rewarded.

In the meantime if I could rent and bring to (or near) campus the biggest loudest bell that was ever made. I would. I would then find a place to set it up and let the mids ring to their hearts content.

I believe that our mids deserve and have earned this tradition.

If this ruling stands then I have full confidence that our mids will respect the decision and do what they feel is in their best interest. As long as they are respectful of KP and those in charge they will have my full support.

 

[KPEngineer]

Well noted. My husband has a few choice words about the powers at KP/MARA right now and is quite concerned that any one "not following the rules" could possibly not graduate, due to what appears to be the capriciousness of this new ruling. Could that possibly happen?

Depending on what the class does there could be consequences. As long as they don't get too out of hand I can't see them being more than minor at most. In order to "not graduate" you would have to be disenrolled from the Academy. You could receive enough demerits/restriction to get you an empty tube, but you would still graduate.
It is MOST MOST MOST important that the class is united in the efforts. If they want to make a statement by not ringing the bell for example, the best thing they could do in my view is to muster on the oval and when the first person is called up to ring the bell the entire class do a left face and march off the oval.

 

[cmakin]

There were certain members of my class that had a week or two of restriction AFTER graduation due to their involvement with a prank.

 

[AMF]

KP2013Momm you and I are cut of the same cloth. I have many ideas, but it's up to the mids. I too pray the powers can see how much the bell ringing means to the mids. But eventually, these intelligent young men and women will do what is in their best interests........then, maybe, they will circle the wagons after graduation with some very important people and "make a statement that will never be forgotten" in an effective way.

Many rumors floating about regimental response. No pranks, but if the entire regiment is together, what can they do?

 

[LineInTheSand]

if the entire regiment is together, what can they do?

Exactly! Can't do anything unless they want Congressional attention "um, why isn't an entire class graduating?"

 

[KP2013Momm]

They could get stuck and not be allowed to walk. I think that may be a fear. Still working on looking for my own bell. Found a huge 5 foot gong but it is out of my price range and would not get here in time.

I am still hoping that those in charge will decide to make this change next year.

I also believe that any action must be done by the entire regiment, but as we know there is always 1 or 2 that will not.

 

[KPEngineer]

I am still hoping that those in charge will decide to make this change next year.

I hope NEVER!!!!

 

[AMF]

They could get stuck and not be allowed to walk. I think that may be a fear. Still working on looking for my own bell. Found a huge 5 foot gong but it is out of my price range and would not get here in time.

I am still hoping that those in charge will decide to make this change next year.

I also believe that any action must be done by the entire regiment, but as we know there is always 1 or 2 that will not.

Why next year? What about the 14's and beyond? Let's see how it all unfolds

 

[Navy1981]

I'm preparing myself for a thrashing.

But I hope that all midshipmen and parents of Class of 2013 step back and take a deep breath & objectively look at all sides before going out and making a decision about how they want to handle this year's bell ringing.

There has been talk at KP since June of last year that bell ringing would be tightened up (who remembers the pictures of the mid from 2012 that dressed up in a gorilla costume prior to ringing the bell). The class of 2013 knew something was going to be different this year, so although maybe hard to swallow, it comes as no surprise.

So here's my two cents. The minimum payback requirement for attending KP is 5 years in the maritime or transportation industry and a Navy Reserve commission. That commission as an officer doesn't happen until graduation day. Now, would you advise your DS/DD to walk away from formation in silent revolt if the Navy (or other service) were to decide that based on those actions your DS/DD is not fit to serve as a commissioned officer? What happens then? Would somebody in Washington decide that because you didn't commission, you aren't meeting your obligation for attending KP? And then send you a bill requesting repayment?

What about all those mids that are planning on going active duty (about one third of recent classes)? As a senior officer in the Navy, I wouldn't want them. They obviously can't follow orders. I wouldn't care if it was the entire class acting as one; the commission is off the table. I for one wouldn't take the chance; and I wouldn't advise anyone to take that chance.

If the class officers of 2013 can engage KP leadership in a civil discussion over the next 6 weeks and come up with an alternate plan, then great. But if not, I for one will advise my mid to follow the published plan and not risk everything 2 weeks before graduation.

The beatings may now begin.

 

[JED482]

Navy1981, it is very refreshing to see such a voice of reason. You offer excellent advice.

As others have made clear, I am not an Alumni or Parent of a Mid. I am, however, an employer in a large private enterprise in California. I, as most other employers, also would not consider college graduates who engaged in this type of behavior.

I want to implore those students who follow this forum not to follow those who would lead you down this path of self destruction. These parents and Alumni are obviously very emotional about this issue and I believe their intentions are good. There advice, however, is very bad. Instead, look to those leaders within your own ranks who can address this issue in a mature and professional manner. DO NOT act like victims.

I understand there are many here who do not like the things I have written here, especially since I am not an Alumnus. But believe me, I do have an interest in Kings Point and its students, and I only want the best for both.

 

[AMF]

I'm preparing myself for a thrashing.

But I hope that all midshipmen and parents of Class of 2013 step back and take a deep breath & objectively look at all sides before going out and making a decision about how they want to handle this year's bell ringing.

There has been talk at KP since June of last year that bell ringing would be tightened up (who remembers the pictures of the mid from 2012 that dressed up in a gorilla costume prior to ringing the bell). The class of 2013 knew something was going to be different this year, so although maybe hard to swallow, it comes as no surprise.

So here's my two cents. The minimum payback requirement for attending KP is 5 years in the maritime or transportation industry and a Navy Reserve commission. That commission as an officer doesn't happen until graduation day. Now, would you advise your DS/DD to walk away from formation in silent revolt if the Navy (or other service) were to decide that based on those actions your DS/DD is not fit to serve as a commissioned officer? What happens then? Would somebody in Washington decide that because you didn't commission, you aren't meeting your obligation for attending KP? And then send you a bill requesting repayment?

What about all those mids that are planning on going active duty (about one third of recent classes)? As a senior officer in the Navy, I wouldn't want them. They obviously can't follow orders. I wouldn't care if it was the entire class acting as one; the commission is off the table. I for one wouldn't take the chance; and I wouldn't advise anyone to take that chance.

If the class officers of 2013 can engage KP leadership in a civil discussion over the next 6 weeks and come up with an alternate plan, then great. But if not, I for one will advise my mid to follow the published plan and not risk everything 2 weeks before graduation.

The beatings may now begin.

Great points in fact. I am not a KP'er either, but upon considering this, I'd give second thoughts to any kind of "demonstration".

 

[sailbum]

Stand Up for Tradition!!1

I'm preparing myself for a thrashing.

But I hope that all midshipmen and parents of Class of 2013 step back and take a deep breath & objectively look at all sides before going out and making a decision about how they want to handle this year's bell ringing.

There has been talk at KP since June of last year that bell ringing would be tightened up (who remembers the pictures of the mid from 2012 that dressed up in a gorilla costume prior to ringing the bell). The class of 2013 knew something was going to be different this year, so although maybe hard to swallow, it comes as no surprise.

So here's my two cents. The minimum payback requirement for attending KP is 5 years in the maritime or transportation industry and a Navy Reserve commission. That commission as an officer doesn't happen until graduation day. Now, would you advise your DS/DD to walk away from formation in silent revolt if the Navy (or other service) were to decide that based on those actions your DS/DD is not fit to serve as a commissioned officer? What happens then? Would somebody in Washington decide that because you didn't commission, you aren't meeting your obligation for attending KP? And then send you a bill requesting repayment?

What about all those mids that are planning on going active duty (about one third of recent classes)? As a senior officer in the Navy, I wouldn't want them. They obviously can't follow orders. I wouldn't care if it was the entire class acting as one; the commission is off the table. I for one wouldn't take the chance; and I wouldn't advise anyone to take that chance.

If the class officers of 2013 can engage KP leadership in a civil discussion over the next 6 weeks and come up with an alternate plan, then great. But if not, I for one will advise my mid to follow the published plan and not risk everything 2 weeks before graduation.

The beatings may now begin.

The ringing of the bell after passing license has always been a joyous, unbridled event for those marking the end of a long four years. (Of course when I was at KP license exams were between third and fourth quarter, so we still had a few months to go until graduation. We had free gangway after passing license but still had to attend classes.) I can remember people running to the oval to ring the bell with huge smiles on their faces. Most of us ringing the bell were in uniform of the day since that is what most of us were wearing when the grades were posted. This was in the days before cell phones so many of us had cameras we would hand to a classmate to get a picture for us. Each person would ring the bell as hard and loud as they could. I can remember many having their covers fly off their heads. Turning this into some kind of formal event will drain all of the joy and energy from it and turn it into something dull more like carrying out an order than the joyous relief it has always represented. What's next, are they going to limit how long/how many times each person can ring the bell?!?!

For the class to stand together and refuse to go through with this travesty would not diminish any of them in my eyes. I can remember occasions while I was at KP where the class banded together to protest some action by the administration. One such occasion was when in response to the actions a few the administration tried to restrict the entire first class and cancel the 100 nights party. The entire class assembled on the oval and threatened to march out the gate if the administration did not give in. Not one single member of the class failed to show up on the oval. The administration relented because they new we were serious and it would have been difficult to try and punish the entire class if they forced our hand and we all went over the wall. Doing this both demonstrated a loyalty to each other and an unwillingness to simply accept something that the class felt was wrong. To take your suggestion and blindly follow this order, if the administration will not change it, would show a complete lack of leadership in this class. This woul be more of a negative reflection on the character of the class than if they protest and refuse to go along with this travesty. Too many terrible things have happened as result of people following orders they did not agree with.

Traditions are an important thing and this is one tradition that should not be changed. If the reasoning is the person who wore the gorilla suit last year, this is easily addressed. To end a tradition because of the actions of one person would be wrong.

 

[kdbax]

I seriously doubt whether any 2013 would jeopardize his or her career - whether in industry or active duty - for bell ringing. However, it might just leave enough of a bad taste in their mouths that, when the Alumni Association comes looking for donations, they'll find some other charitable cause to support. This is, after all, the class that also has had five superintendents in four years (counting Dr. Kumar's two turns at the helm)...a carbon monoxide leak that sent a number of mids to the hospital...the loss of a training vessel for a number of months....

Over the past four years, DH and I have made relatively generous donations to the Alumni Association and Foundation, recognizing that our son has received an excellent education with great career opportunities at a minimal cost to him or to us. I know none of this is the Alumni Association's fault. However, some of the goings-on at KP, between the administration and MARAD, are making us start questioning that support.

 

[tankercaptain]

Disobedience

First midshipman at Kings Point have a history of disobedience against the administration. The cannon on the oval has been pointed at Wiley Hall more times than anyone in the history of the school can remember. The RBU was shut down countless times because of some sort of active or passive disobedience.
Second, if the entire senior class were to actively or passively take action with regards to the "new" tradition the chance on them not becoming commissioned is slim to none, it's a good threat but a meaningless one at best.
Third I'd like to list the positions of classmates and friends from Kings Point that have participated in some sort of protest, disobedience, or revolt at Kings Point to show that those things don't hurt you.
1. CDR USN- Commander Officer HT
2. CDR USN- XO DDG
3. CDR USN- Commanding Officer VFA
4. CDR USN- Project Superintendent SSN
5. Captain Tanker- Crowley Maritime
6. Captain Container Ship- Maersk Lines Limited
7. Pilot - Houston Pilots
8. Pilot - Delaware Pilots
9. Pilot - Sandy Hook Pilots
10. Pilot - Maryland Pilots
11. Pilot - LA/LB Pilots
12. Lt. Col USMC - F-35 Test Pilot
13. CDR USN; XO Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron
14. CDR NOAA - Hurricane Hunter Pilot
15. Senior Partner - Admiralty law
16. Award winning journalist and writer
17. CEO - Internet Start Up
18. Fleet Manger - Maersk Lines Limited
19. LTC USA - Battalion Commander
20. Captain Special Projects Ship - MARAD
21. Captain Tanker - Chevron Shipping
22. Chief Engineer Tanker - Chevron Shipping
23. Captain Drillship - Atwood
24. Chief Engineer - Sabine
25. CDR USN - MSC Operations Officer
I can go on but I think everyone gets the point. PULVER!!!!

 

[AMF]

First midshipman at Kings Point have a history of disobedience against the administration. The cannon on the oval has been pointed at Wiley Hall more times than anyone in the history of the school can remember. The RBU was shut down countless times because of some sort of active or passive disobedience.
Second, if the entire senior class were to actively or passively take action with regards to the "new" tradition the chance on them not becoming commissioned is slim to none, it's a good threat but a meaningless one at best.
Third I'd like to list the positions of classmates and friends from Kings Point that have participated in some sort of protest, disobedience, or revolt at Kings Point to show that those things don't hurt you.
1. CDR USN- Commander Officer HT
2. CDR USN- XO DDG
3. CDR USN- Commanding Officer VFA
4. CDR USN- Project Superintendent SSN
5. Captain Tanker- Crowley Maritime
6. Captain Container Ship- Maersk Lines Limited
7. Pilot - Houston Pilots
8. Pilot - Delaware Pilots
9. Pilot - Sandy Hook Pilots
10. Pilot - Maryland Pilots
11. Pilot - LA/LB Pilots
12. Lt. Col USMC - F-35 Test Pilot
13. CDR USN; XO Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron
14. CDR NOAA - Hurricane Hunter Pilot
15. Senior Partner - Admiralty law
16. Award winning journalist and writer
17. CEO - Internet Start Up
18. Fleet Manger - Maersk Lines Limited
19. LTC USA - Battalion Commander
20. Captain Special Projects Ship - MARAD
21. Captain Tanker - Chevron Shipping
22. Chief Engineer Tanker - Chevron Shipping
23. Captain Drillship - Atwood
24. Chief Engineer - Sabine
25. CDR USN - MSC Operations Officer
I can go on but I think everyone gets the point. PULVER!!!!

OK, I am back to liking revolt!...LOL

 

[Navy1981]

A long and prestigious list of successful KP graduates; and probably an abbreviated one at that. Besides being included in the brotherhood of pranksters, etc. what do all of these alums have in common? The fact that all of their antics, pranks, etc. occurred long before the electronic information age. Had you and your classmates faced 2013's bell ringing challenge, very little would have been heard about it outside of KP. You could have had your revolt and faced whatever circumstances and it would have been kept within the KP Family.

Today, we have Twitter, Skype, You Tube, text messages, smart phones, the internet; and through it, this forum. The 2013 Bell Ringing issue has already been debated across the U.S. by mids, parents, grandparents, brothers and sisters, alumni, future applicants; as well as you and I.

The Superintendent has already been put on notice that nobody is happy about the current Bell Ringing plan. Everybody in KP Nation is waiting to see what is going to happen on that day. Is Class of 2013 going to follow the published order, or are they going to act as one and walk out in protest; basically flipping the Superintendent off? And if they do, do you expect him to roll over and ignore overt disobedience to a direct order? And remember, we're talking about a man that has tightened things up since taking the reins. This included disenrolling a Class of 2013 senior for low grades; a mid with less than 6 months to graduation.

What would he do? We can spend the next 6 weeks discussing those what ifs. In the past it has been mentioned that when the class stood together, the administration did nothing. I don't think 2013 will get off that easy. Would anybody be disenrolled? Probably not. At best, I think that as a class, 2013 will spend the rest of their time at KP on restriction; which means that nobody goes on leave that afternoon (hope mom and dad have airline insurance).

But that still leaves it hanging out there what the military and a potential employer would do. These forums are riddled with stories of students (both ROTC and the Academies) who lost scholarships and commissions within weeks of college graduation. There was even one girl who received her USAF commission and was being discharged because she failed to tell the Air Force that right before graduation she was pregnant. The Air Force's reason was that she was in breach of contract for failing to divulge a change in her medical history (she was fighting it; and I don't know if she was successful and what the final outcome was). But in this day and age of military drawdown and economic recession, I think it's foolish to take the chance that this won't come back to bite you.

So the facts that we have right now are:
- There will be a Bell Ringing
- The Class of 2013 will be wearing Khakis (gorilla problem solved)
- The Class of 2013 will muster shortly after exam results are posted.
- The published plan for bell-ringing was signed by the class officers of 2013
- There's 6 weeks left to negotiate with KP Administration if 2013 doesn't like that plan.

If the class of 2013 doesn't like this published plan then they need to take it to their midshipmen officers and let them go back to the Superintendent and negotiate something different. We're 6 weeks away!! Plenty of time to work something out. Maybe that something would be to muster, listen to the Supe's congratulatory speech; and then be dismissed to begin the bell ringing. But if nothing changes, then I say 2013 needs to roll with it.

Last thing and I hope you agree with me on it. This isn't my problem or your problem, it is the Class of 2013's problem. They need to handle it on their own.