Letter prompts base to change flight suit rules

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by LineInTheSand, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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  2. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Great article. LITS, I always ask myself the same thing when I am on the metro. My buddy (retired Army) and I always ask them where their planes are? They really don't like that, but it amuses us! At my last duty station the base Commander issued a similiar order to Marines at our base.
     
  3. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    I can't even begin to explain how completely dumb/stupid/asinine/"fill-in-the-blank" this is...

    Flight suit...to me it's my duty uniform when I'm flying or doing other flying things. Now...I have a "hunting outfit" aka: ABU's...not as comfortable as a flight suit but...I'm not flying AF jets now.

    This guy needs a little...counseling.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  4. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    In times of shrinking personnel rolls, it does do one well to make one's name publicly known for jackassery.

    As an Army Aviator, you only wear your A2CUs when assigned to a flying billet and when you might have a chance of piloting an aircraft or being asked to perform flight line duties. Showing up at Command & Staff in a flight uniform is a no-no.

    Of course, our uniform got completely co-opted by everyone else, so it's hard to tell who's who anymore.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  5. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Yeah! I remember when you couldn't travel public transportation unless Class A or B. We did look good though. They may be great but they now look sloppy.:shake: I think the Marines are going back to no fatigues (what do they call them now?) out of a vehicle for any reason off base or any travel. We were allowed to stop and get out of the car at the cleaners to pick up uniforms but you better have your cover on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  6. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    I could see making an exception if he were willing to wear goggles and a long white silk scarf and sport a bakelite cigarette holder.

    On the other hand, even Superman never wore his uniform in public except when actually flying or in the Fortress of Solitude (the original version of chillin' out).
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  7. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Then again they did get the "Silk Scarf" and they derseved it. If there was a Phone Booth available
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  8. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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  9. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Wow, I see stuff like this and wonder is it real. Apparently it is.
     
  10. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Good on the Col? Seriously? So, you're fine with a leadership decision that is basically "one guy poops his pants so everyone should now wear diapers"? Talk about getting everyone at your wing spun-up over something silly now. BETTER leadership should have been to make this stupid young Capt publically apologize, only after he followed a dozen or so young troops in their jobs so he could get a better understanding of how everyone contributes to the team. I've talked to a few folks familiar with the situation and who know this leader -- this was NOT good leadership, plain and simple.


    Concur. Like I said, he needs to get a better understanding of the word "team" and where he fits into it. His days in the AF, hopefully, are numbered. He'll at least learn what it is like to become "that example", and persona non grata amongst his fellow squadron mates; hope the lesson was worth it


    Probably something that takes all the other folks dressed in ABUs and camos on the Metro that day to their jobs in the deep, dark forests of the Pentagon.


    Is there ever a good time to make one's name publicly known for jackassery? :biggrin: I can only hope he can claim he wrote this late one Friday night and was "impaired" at the time -- then the lesson would become "don't drink and e-mail" :yllol:

    AF aviators, as you correctly stated many times over, are just a little different than the Army aviators. To us, the uniform represents a heritage and Esprit De'Corps. Something we are proud of, something we want to wear TO stick out and show the world we ARE different. Why some folks get spun up over our wearing of an official uniform is beyond me -- jealosy, perhaps?

    For us, it all depends on if the boss was wearing one as well. Gotta ask, if your GO was wearing his ABUs at this meeting, would you ask him if he planned to conduct a ruck march right afterwards?

    Many staff billets in the AF have started the "Blues Monday thru Thursday" rule; just another reason most guys can't wait to leave the staff and get back to a real job.... :yllol:
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    It is. I received this multiple times from a number of sources. Also had a Navy friend who knew of the girl. This email chain has followed her around. She tried to take action against the people who initially forwarded it.
     
  12. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    No one should wear a flight suit who isn't flying..... as much as I'd like to wear PJs to work... I can't. If you're flying sure, do it, if not, don't.

    And yes, I agree, why wear camo to the Pentagon or ODUs to USCG HQ (I don't think they're wearing ODUs at CGHQ anymore though, I think that changed with Adm. Papp.)
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    In the relatively short existence of the U.S. Air Force, how many times has the uniform changed?

    I had an AF co-worker talk about the Delta Airlines looking uniforms from a number of years ago. The flight suit is how old?

    I'm all for being proud of the uniform. An Air Force flight suits looks like a Navy flight suit which looks like a Marine Corps flight suit which looks like a Coast Guard flight suit. There is very little, off the bat, that distinguished the Air Force (America's newest flying force) from the other services....
     
  14. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Here's a 1974 correspondence that has become legendary thanks to the internets. Make sure you read both letters.

    http://www.clevescene.com/64-and-co...ic-1974-letter-from-cleveland-browns-to-a-fan
     
  15. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    You haven't been involved in an operational flying unit, so your lack of understanding of the situation as this base in excusable.

    The daily flying schedule is NOT set in stone. It changes. A lot. Folks who may have been on the flying schedule when they walked into the squadron that morning may find themselves off it. Folks who weren't expecting to fly that day sometimes find themselves in the middle of a mission before lunch. I want my troops in my squadron ALWAYS ready to conduct the primary mission, each and every day. Wearing a flight suit is part of that, it places a mental condition on them that they HAVE to be ready, even when the schedule says that shouldn't have to be.

    I never wore PJs to work either. I wore a duty uniform. And I was ready to perform that duty each and every day, mentally and physically.

    This is a typical generalization from those who haven't earned the right to wear the flight suit: they're just glorified PJs, and why should THEY get to wear PJs when I can't? A whine that it isn't fair, and we all should be treated equally in this world. Didn't we just all agree on a separate thread that this attitude was making America soft?

    Frankly, I see the flight suit as a very obvious sign to all that the person wearing it is an air power expert. It gives them the immediate impression that when it comes to an application of airpower question, THIS person knows something a little more. Avoids any confusion for when the same types of questions are asked to an acquisition officer, or someone from PA. Put us all in the same uniform all the time, and that immediate recognition is kapudt.

    Know what I do before I ask a Navy guy in his browns about the Hornet or the Growler? I look at his shoes....

    The Blues? Quite a bunch. The flight suit? Well, except for an "experiment" from Skeletor (which we quickly changed back to the "old style" once he departed the fix), and some updates to the material, hardly ever.

    You're confusing the "Delta Blues" (also from Skeletor, and also quickly abandoned once he was gone), with flight suits. How old are the flightsuits themselves? I think we haven't changed styles (again, except for the failed experiment in the early 90s) since the Korean War.

    And yet, when you look at any military member wearing one, you immediately recognize that they are aircrew. The "baby service" that is the AF doesn't have all the myriad of uniform combos the other services wear. 3 basic types: blues, ABUs, and flight suits. AF aircrews don't get to wear different shoes in our Class As or Bs like the Navy, we don't get to blouse our pant legs like an Airborne Ranger, or wear green berets when we get a special qualification.


    But all this is tiring, and beside the point. Besides, my day wearing my bag are long past, so I really have no dog in this hunt. The real reason I posted: you praised this O-6 for his knee-jerk reaction / decision. And all he did was come back with a "don't punish one, punish EVERYONE" policy. A classic example of poor leadership if ever there was one.
     
  16. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    You're right, we certainly lack heritage and esprit de corps. Just a bunch of schmucks flying helicopters, right? If there's one thing we're not proud of, it's the uniforms we wear or the history of our flying units, some of which are older than the U.S. Air Force.

    You're right, Army Aviators are different. We don't need a flight suit to remind us that we're the world's best at what we do. We have wars for that. We wear our uniforms in accordance with the commander's policy and regulations. The Colonel in question didn't re-write the reg. He just defined flight operations as things having to do with...flying.

    Why exactly does a space and missile command officer need a flight suit? Is it the heritage of men flying missiles? The heritage of flying satellites?

    As for your thoughts on the Colonel....remember in the USAFA thread where you maintained that only those involved have the whole story, and we should let them do their jobs without sniping from afar? Hmmm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  17. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Insulting the US Army Aviation field was not my intent. If it came across that way, you have my sincere and upmost apologies.

    Do you really want to go there? I'd prefer not to get into a "my service is sooooo much more macho and important than yours" contest here. Just seems silly to me....
     
  18. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    And in his haste to appease those offended by a stupid Capt's comments and appear "fair", he forgot a simple truth: once you step into a flying squadron, EVERYTHING has to do with flying. Everything else is, rightfully, second.

    Good question. I've been asking that for years now.

    Playing "Gotcha"? Come on, you can do better than that! :biggrin:
     
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    And when people are doing all those things that come second, they can leave their flight suit at home.

    Ok, now that you're done stalling, does that point not apply here?
     
  20. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    The policy, while in accordance with the regs, does seem to be a bit of a "knee-jerk" group punishment.

    The Captain's holier-than-thou letter sure didn't win friends, but I don't think the Colonel's response helped to limit the distraction the Captain's letter made. I submit multiple internet threads and news articles as Exhibit A...
     

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