Lied on ROTC Scholarship Application?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by poopyphone8, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. poopyphone8

    poopyphone8 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    So my friend and I are both applying for Army ROTC 4 year scholarships. I'm not doing mine until the summer, but he is working on his now. The thing is, he put down his membership on the varsity swim team (which he is good at) but lied and said that he was co-captain of it. I told him it was a bad idea, but he doesn't think so. What kind of trouble can he get in for this? Or will the board even find out about it? Thanks.
     
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    835
    Part of the AROTC Application is a form in which the high school advisor verifies the applicant information. Not a good idea for your friend to stretch the truth.
     
  3. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    5
    Bad idea all around for starting off a potential Army officer career by lying.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    For our kids regarding their sealed transcripts that info was included, if your school does that, he will be feeling the cost of the lie.

    Just imagine the interview...I see you have co-captain, but the school does not acknowledge you are, can you explain why the discrepancy?

    Is he now going to lie again or come clean? Either way it wouldn't be the path I would choose.
     
  5. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Messages:
    379
    Likes Received:
    2
    Boy, if that doesn't just tick me off! :thumbdown:
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    You, me and the man behind the tree are ticked off.

    I hope he can remember to keep that lie, because if he tells anyone at the det how he played the game, he is probably in for a world of pain.

    Peers in his yr group that didn't get a scholarship will most likely resent him.

    The same peers may tell the MSIII/IVs. They in turn may tell the CoC. It could impact their OML.

    My mother drilled in my cranium a long time ago...the wheel is round.

    Lie to get a scholarship it will come back on you because you lied.

    The OP's friend does not get the military. Honor 1st, 2nd and last. I wonder how he will feel as an AD member when he supported somene for a position to find out they falsified their records? Granted due to the system that is unlikely, but the point is: You are the one that places your name on the line for support, would you not be angry that they shaded the truth?
     
  7. txpotato

    txpotato Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    68
    This angers me more than I can express. During the application process, our son was encouraged to "really think" about anything he could possibly put down that would enhance his chances. As a home schooler in a "no equal access" state, his resume lacks some of the usual blah blah blah that many applicants have. We declined and felt that stretching the truth is the same as a lie. I guess I shouldn't be shocked to find out there's gambling in Casa Blanca, but I am.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    OP refer this site to your friend. He will quickly see the negative.

    OBTW our DS got an AFROTC scholarship,commissioned in May. I have no bone in the fight, I just have anger/angst that he doesn't get the meaning of OFFICER.

    To me he is about the bucks from a scholarship perspective.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    835
    I would like to think that the vast majority of applicants are truthful on their applications. Being encouraged to "Think hard" is not always a bad thing, many applicants look at the application and just fill in the available boxes, the issue is that there are not that many boxes to check. This is why the application has an "Additional Remarks" section. What may seem minor to an applicant may be something worth noting in this section of the application. When my son first met with a ROO he said basically the same thing. During the meeting they talked about what he had done over the past 3 years, every now and then the ROO would tell him "Put that down in the application"

    The board looks at the whole person, my son would not have thought about putting down that he had an Advanced Scuba Certification, the ROO told him to include this. It's not stretching the truth, it's just making sure the applicant presents a complete picture of themselves. I'm sure this is what they had in mind when they told your son to Think Hard. That usual blah blah blah is what the boards are looking for.

    I do agree with you that outright lying on an application is wrong, luckily the application process has ways of fleshing those lies out.
     
  10. txpotato

    txpotato Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    68
    It was somehow implied that playing piano at a nursing home once or twice should be turned into "Volunteers with Elderly." Did we speak Spanish during our Spanish class? Call it a Spanish Club. Um, no. If he doesn't get a scholarship this time, then so be it.

    He was encouraged to bring his resume with him to his PMS interview. It seemed more impressive than his general application because he was able to note awards for races won (5K, 10K, 1/2 marathon, etc). I included a copy of it when I sent other paperwork in to Cadet Command. Will the Board see it or was it put in that "special file?"

    He did use the special remarks section to attempt to distinguish himself.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    835
    I would have to agree, "Volunteers with Elderly" would be a big stretch. My son dropped off food to a food bank, I guess he should have lised that he organized a Food Drive. I see your point.

    As long as he listed those awards on the Additional Remarks they will look at it. I'm not sure if the Board would look at a seperate resume or not. The best thing for any new applicants that read this is to always include these items on the Remarks section.

    The fact that your son used the Remarks section to round out his resume will help a lot. From your previous posts your son seems to have a well rounded application.

    Best of luck with the CGA as well, it warms the hearts of us old Coasties when these great young people consider the Coast Guard.

    Semper Paratus
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2013
  12. irishfan9

    irishfan9 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    I completely agree that a lie here does start a slippery slope, one that he will probably continue to build on with other lies down the road into his career. But maybe thats just how he is and that is unfortunate.

    However, I think it is a little dramatic to go as far as saying his peers will resent him. Maybe it is different at other battalions, I could not tell you which of our freshmen have scholarships or not nor will anyone ask; it doesn't matter as they are treated just the same. Also, no one really cares what people did in high school. I could care less if Joe was a co-captain of his swim team in high school. If there were other things that he lied about in addition, then possibly it would be obvious that he is full of it.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,535
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    I'm sure you're correct although it is a shame to lie on the application. However, he wouldn't be the first to learn the error of his ways and eventually live up the the honor that is expected of an officer.
     
  14. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,378
    Likes Received:
    334
    Tell him to go apply for a different scholarship. There are enough applicants with integrity applying for this one.
     
  15. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    Tell Him to Go Find Another Scholarship

    :thumbdown: to him.

    I'd point out to him that the polygraph he will inevitably take during the process of obtaining a security clearance has a way of ferreting out all types of deception, past and present. The personal ramifications of deceit are not ones he wants to face in the military. When you fill out the applications, you submit them to be true under oath, with potential guilt of perjury.

    There are stories on these boards of ROTC members and academy cadets being summarily discharged for less apparent violations. "Honor" in the WP motto ("Duty, Honor, Country") implies integrity and truthfulness. With the drawdown of troops, you can be assured that the leaders are going to be looking for ways to trim the corp.
     
  16. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    450
    You don't take a polygraph for a security clearance...even for a top secret clearance.

    Chances are this guy will never get caught. Chances are co captain of the swim team on his application won't change the likelyhood of him getting a scholarship one bit. Chances are if the best he has is co captain of the swim team he better have a pretty good plan B.

    If he thinks he helped himself by putting that on his application I'm thinking the only person he's really lying to is himself.
     
  17. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    58
    :thumb:

    I agree lying on the application is dishonorable - but Clarkson's comment is probably the most likely outcome. :smile:
     
  18. SoleTrain

    SoleTrain Must be the Kicks

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Uhh no he's not just lying to himself. He's lying to the United States Army. Pretty open-shut.

    I don't know if AROTC has an honor code, but in AF there is one, and if you break it you get tossed out so fast your head will spin.

    Pima hit the nail on the head. Sounds like this guy's in it for the money, not to serve as an officer. He clearly doesn't understand the standard he will potentially soon be held to.
     
  19. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread is a bit over the top. I will agree, it is unfair and wrong to lie on your application, but if you don't tell the boards what you do, don't be surprised when you don't get accepted.

    Look at it this way, how many meetings do you think the average kid goes to that writes down, Freshman Year Spanish Club. Do you think that was a better show of character than a kid that went down to the Senior home and entertained the elderly 4 or 5 times for an hour, or once or twice a month took food to a local food bank?

    My understanding is the military, wants to see a well rounded kid that was active, and probably really wants to see varsity sports and leadership rolls. They don't want to see a blank sheet of paper where the activities are. If you did something good be proud of it and put it down, if asked explain it truthfully, but don't sell yourself short.
     
  20. dcmom3

    dcmom3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    4
    Are you juniors? It could be he is anticipating being a co-captain his senior year. . Example you are a junior and have played bball grade 9, 10, 11 and the summer of your junior year you are filling out application you would also put 12. I does not make you a liar. MY DD new she would be co-captain her SR. year and included it.
     

Share This Page