LOA and nom slate?

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by crair70, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    I read somewhere that is a candidate has a LOA and receives the MOC nomination it is not "charged" to the MOC. Am I understanding this correctly that is the MOC has 1 available slot at a SA and nominates 2 candidates who have LOA and 1 who doesn't, all 3 that all can be appointed since 2 had LOA and will not be charged to the MOC and 1 who didn't have an LOA will be his 1 charged?

    Also our MOC uses the principal ranking (think that is what it is called) where he gives 1 candidate the nom and lists 9 unranked alternates... Assuming a few of those unranked alternates have LOA how would that work?
    Thanks or any clarification.
     
  2. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    I have read this as well. However, it is my understanding that each appointment must be charged. MOC's do end up with multiple appointees in their district because one appointee may be charged to them, another to the Vice President, President, ROTC, another Senator, the Superintendent, or other nomination source. Also each MOC can have 5 cadets at a time at each SA so some years they will also have multiple appointees charged to them.

    You are describing a Principal with Competing Alternatives nomination method. For a complete description of the three different nomination methods check this PDF of the Congressional Admissions Guide. If a candidate receives an LOA, is fully qualified (3Qed), and receives a nomination from ANY source then they will receive an appointment. Who the nomination is charged to is irrelevant from your standpoint. I would't expend brain cells trying to figure it out at this point.
     
  3. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    thanks blackbird! Wouldn't it be my DS luck that his MOC uses the Principal with Competing Alternatives nomination method. Says only 25% of MOC use this method. Of course gives 100% of the power to the MOC (maybe for political purposes- big contributor- kid get nom???). Being we are in a competitive state (CA) and each candidate was told they will get 15-20 minute interview, seems somewhat unfair. I would think the SA should be able to evaluate who of the 10 on the slate is most competitive and fits what they are looking for! Sorry- just venting!:thumbdown:
    Thankfully my DS has a presidential- wondering if admissions take the MOC nomination practice into consideration when deciding who to give a presidential appointment to? Hope so!!
     
  4. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    Crair, it is what it is. However, consider that MOCs do not evaluate the candidates. The evaluation and selection is delegated to a SA board usually consisting of people from the community who are very familiar with the SAs, like AD and Reserve officers many of which are SA grads.

    I believe that candidates with Presidential noms are just racked and stacked and the top 100 receive an appointment. Practice for a nomination interview will not be a consideration.
     
  5. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    BlackBird is correct.

    I chair my MOC's USAFA board...there are three of us on it: all are USAFA grads.

    I know the members of the other boards (USNA/USMMA, and USMA) as well; MOST are SA grads.

    As for the Presidential...BB is correct; the SA does the "rack and stack" and selects the top 100.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  6. 1017225

    1017225 Member

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    Blackbird, that PDF was really helpful, thanks! :thumb:
     
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Actually, for USNA,many of the top 100 on the Presidential list will be charged against their MOC and those subsequently receiving Presidential appointments will reach much further down the list. Also, be aware that there are restrictions on Presidential nominations receiving alternate appointments.
     
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    No. Maybe. Yes. Sometimes. It depends. If the MOC utilizes the competitive method of submitting his slate, CGO is required, by law, to pick the most competitive candidate for the primary nomination, which will probably be one of the LOAs, and will be charged to the MOC. If the MOC selects via the Principal route, he will determine which of any of your example of three and will receive his principal nomination and be charged to him. All others will go into the national pool.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2011
  9. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    Mongo, thanks for the clarification. I get that a candidate who receives a Presidential nomination (and is in the top 100) as well as a MOC nomination may have their appointment charged against the MOC. Therefore their Presidential appointment slot could go to a candidate that was not in the top 100. And clearly this is not USNA specific but would apply to other SAs as well.

    But what do you mean by "there are restrictions in Presential nominations receiving alternate appointments"?

    Thanks
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    The first 150 alternates to receive appointments go exclusively to those from the MOCs slates who did not receive appointments. After that, three out of four must come from the same slates but also including those from delegates of Guam, Puerto Rica, DC, etc. The other one fourth may may include those from qualified candidates with any other type of nomination (such as Presidential) depending on their competitiveness as compared to the MOC alternates.
     
  11. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm...good to know about USNA. I've asked this at USAFA and "SO" far been told that's "typically" not the case but...in any given day/week/month...the admissions folks will do what they need to.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  12. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    Thanks Mongo for clarifying!
    So just to be sure I am understanding all of this...
    If a MOG uses the "principal with unranked alternates" method and the principal is 3Q- he will get the nom and appointment and all the other unranked candidates go into the national pool and are racked and stacked.-right? Is this the "sec of navy" nom I hear about since I assume they can not be charged to the MOC? Much better than how my DS understood it at his MOC academy night- he left there thinking if you are not the principal nom you are "SOL" and being we are in CA and 50+ kids were there at the open house, it painted a VERY bleak picture- even for a kid who has a pres and is 3Q already!

    After reading this thread it really explains WHY it is so important to apply for all eligible noms. Just gives the SA more opportunities to give you an appointment.

    One last question...
    I read that the USNA had 800+ pres noms last year. I assume that just like they had 19,000+ applications, those 800+ pres noms include kids who where not 3Q and therefore can not compete for an appointment. Any idea or guess past off past years what % of those with pres noms are 3Q candidates. I am sure that info is not released by USNA but wondering if those of you in the know have heard any unofficial figures.

    I know someone will give the textbook post..."all this doesn't matter- make yourself the most competitive you can-blah blah blah" But I disagree- knowledge is power and knowing as much as you can about the process is very helpful- that is what this forum is for. Having this info will surely not make my DS decide to put forth less of an effort.

    Again- thanks to Mongo, Blackbird and Flieger83 for the replies!
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I understand wanting to be the most informed about the process, however, I think people who give you the blah, blah, blah also have a point.

    The fact is 100 get the appointment via the Presidential slate, and every yr boards change. A few yrs back the amount opening a packet with the USNA was considerably less, but the number appointed remained the same. The point is those stats would now be outdated for this yrs class. Last yr they had 800 and 19K+ open, this yr they could have 1000 and 17K+ open. Look at the PAR stats, every yr it increases, what was strong yrs ago maybe seen as median now, if you went off those stats maybe you wouldn't do 1 more SAT, and that maybe could equate into a TWE. The variables are too great and change year to year. The only constant is 100 will get appointed to this source and that's all that matters.

    That is why you see people say the blah, blah, blah, you can't get caught up on the stats.

    Remember Presidential is not geographic centric, it is national. So, what I would look at if it was me, for learning purposes, would be if certain states have more statistically; not in actual numbers, but %. This would allow you to see how your personal state fares with the presidential. Granted it is the top 100, and again there are more variables, such as if the MOCs talk. VA doesn't talk, it is a 1 MOC nom state. NC they do talk, and so many will have all 3, and thus no need to be pulled from the Presidential.

    You see, even if you got to that level of intense review, you still come back to variables and instead of getting a migraine, you realize it is all about submitting the best application blah, blah, blah.
     
  14. Candidad

    Candidad Member

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    Crair70, my son finds himself in this exact situation for USNA (an LOA and a congresswoman who uses the principal + competitive alternative nomination method), which on the whole, is better than any alternative at this point. He is in a very competitive CA District, and has applied to all 4 nominating sources available to him.

    The way I interpret the process is that someone with an LOA needs a nomination, but it does not need to be a principal nomination. I suspect nominating boards want to maximize the number of kids appointed from their district and they may name a good candidate who does not have an LOA as the principal to maximize that candidate's chances, figuring a candidate with an LOA will also get an appointment as an alternate.

    I say this based on how the USNA explains the nomination process, which is also what my son's BGO told him:

    "Members may use any one of the following methods to nominate candidates to fill their vacancies:

    -nominate 10 candidates for each vacancy, permitting the Naval Academy to evaluate and select them for admission on a competitive basis;

    -designate one principal nominee and nine other candidates as alternates, ranked in order of preference; or

    -nominate one principal nominee and nine other candidates as competitors, permitting the Naval Academy to select the alternate competitors for admission.

    "In each of these methods, one fully qualified nominee is offered an appointment to the Naval Academy to fill the vacancy. The remaining fully qualified nominees also are considered carefully, and many are selected for admissions to fill the entering class from a national competition of qualified alternates." [emphasis added]

    I believe someone with an LOA in our district would fit the highlighted category. Becoming a nominee is the important part.
     
  15. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    An LOA candidate needs "a nomination." You don't need to be the principal nominee. If an MOC nominates someone else as the principal and you as an alternate and you have an LOA, USNA must give you an appointment if you are o/w qualified (medically, CFA). Usually, that nom comes from SecNav.
     
  16. nuensis

    nuensis USNA 2016

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    Does this apply to NJROTC noms as well?
     

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