LOA + Nomination = Offer of Appointment?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Dolphins2012, Aug 31, 2011.

  1. Dolphins2012

    Dolphins2012 Parent

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    My DS just received an LOA to the Naval Academy. My initial understanding was that if one receives an LOA, receiving a nomination meant that you'll automatically receive an offer of appointment (assuming you remain Triple Qualified).

    Our MOC's website explains nominations:
    "The law pertaining to Senatorial appointments for each of the U.S. Service Academies stipulates that a Member of the United States Senate is allowed a maximum of five persons at each academy in any given year. This quota therefore determines the number of vacancies for each entering class. This year, it appears that I will be allowed to nominate for one vacancy each at the Air Force Academy, Military Academy and Naval Academy. I will be able to nominate ten candidates for each vacancy."

    I read this to mean that the senator will nominate 10 applicants to the Naval Academy, but the Academy will select only one for an appointment. One can easily imagine scenarios where a candidate with an LOA receives a nomination along with others in their state or district, but is but does not receive an offer of appointment due to the number of actual vacancies. E.g., Sen. Smith nominates ten kids for his single vacancy at the Naval Academy, and two of those nominees received LOAs, therefore, one of them won't receive an offer of appointment. This conflicts with my initial understanding that an LOA + Nomination = Offer of Appointment.
     
  2. futuremid

    futuremid Member

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    Try for your congressional nomination, not just senatorial. Don't worry about the process. Your understanding of it won't change how it works. Kick butt senior year and apply for every nomination. You've gotten this far already. Congratulations!
     
  3. Dolphins2012

    Dolphins2012 Parent

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    Thanks for the congrats. Never said my DS didn't apply to all nom sources (he did, to all four, and in June), I merely quoted one MOC's explanation of nominations. So the question remains: can a fully qualified candidate with an LOA receive a nomination and still not be offered an appointment due to limited vacancies?
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2011
  4. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Each MOC can nominate 10 for each slot they have available at each academy (typically one slot per year) - the academy has to select at least one of the MOCs nominees assuming they are 3Q'd but can select more. LOAs recipients don't count against the MOCs slot or vacancy. Our congressman had 4 accepted to the USNA - the "primary", two LOAs and one selected out of the national pool.
     
  5. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Dolphin, the other nine nominees from your Senator are eligible for and will compete in the national pool. LOAs, for the most part, if not all, are competitive in this arena. This, along with Presidentials and a few others, is how a single MOC can have more than one successful candidate from his only slate.
     
  6. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Although LOA recipients who are not the "primary" may be technically in the national pool they do not really compete with the other applicants as they already guaranteed admission assuming they have met any outstanding requirements.
     
  7. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    I don't think that generalization is actually true, maybe USNA1985 can chime in. All appointees are charged to an official nomination source -- whether Presedential, MOC, VP, ROTC/JROTC, etc. USNA Office of Nominations and Appointments is ultimately the ones who decide which source is charged for a particular appointee.

    Medical Qualification + Nomination + LOA = Appointment is a fact.

    The Member of Congress has three methods that can be used for nominations:
    1. USNA picks the candidate that they feel should be offered the appointment.
    2. USNA must pick the MOC designated primary candidate (if qualified). If unqualified, the next ordered nominee (#'s 2-10) could be picked for appointment (if qualified).
    3. USNA must pick the MOC designated primary candidate (if qualified). If unqualified, any next of the 9 nominees (unordered) could be picked for appointment (if qualified).
     
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Wrong. LOAs are not addressed by Federal Law. They were created by the Academy. Therefore, they must adhere to all facets of US Code Title 10. Those who do not receive principal nominations from their MOCs or SecNav, Presidential, Supt, or VP noms will enter via their competitiveness in the national pool.
     
  9. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    I know LOAs are not addressed by federal law. This debate has been aired here and on other websites. The point is that once in the national pool USNA is responsible for the selections and they have already selected the LOA recipients - again assuming they have met the outstanding requirements.
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    My point exactly.
     
  11. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Exactly. That is what I meant by "they don't really compete":smile:
     
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    However, since LOAs are early in the season and the final cutoff for national pool competitiveness is not determined until much later, should an LOA fall below this cutoff, USNA might have some scrambling to do.
     
  13. Dolphins2012

    Dolphins2012 Parent

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    So if a candidate is nominated but not the principal nominee selected for that MOCs vacancy, he/she is placed in the "national pool"? What is that and what process does that follow?

    (I apologize in advance if these has been repeatedly covered before, I try to search strings before asking a question).
     
  14. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Interesting point. I seem to recall my DS, who received both his LOA and his nomination in December, received his appointment early - before the cutoff for MOCs to submit their slates and way before most appointments from the national pool. So the questions is: Do most LOAs who have met their requirements receive their appointments right away?
     
  15. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    US Code Title 10 specifies that first all the primary methods of appointments are completed; MOC principal, SecNav, Presidential, and VP. Once these are completed, SecNav is authorized to fill the class with all those individuals receiving MOC nominations not resulting in appointments by order of merit (competitive by WPM ranking). This year my guess would be that this is around 400 or more candidates. LOAs, normally being the top WPM rankings for the entire class, usually have no problem being within this group.

    The CGO makes many decisions based on historical data. Some Admissions Officers might be quite aggressive while their relief is more conservative, or vice versa. Most LOAs, by definition, rank in the very top of the candidate pool, and subsequently, will also be in the top of the national pool. Therefore, once a nomination, principal or alternate, is received, the CGO may go ahead and award an appointment safe in the assumption that the individual is national pool competitive. Perchance an LOA near the bottom of the perceived cutoff will wait a lot longer. The Supts authority to appoint 50 individuals without nominations might also be utilized here to prevent anyone from falling through the cracks.
     
  16. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    All appointments must have a nomination but applicants chosen out of the national pool (including LOAs) do not count against the one or two slots a MOC may have open each year. I suppose it is theoretically possible for a MOC to have nominated 40 - 50 current Midshipmen if all ten of their nominations for each available slot somehow got chosen.
     
  17. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    Both my sons (twins) were nominated by their congresswoman. She had only one vacancy for the academy. They both had LOAs and they both got appointments.

    As you were already advised, don't be concerned about the vacancies and from whom you get the nomination.

    These stories about candidates getting LOAs and failing to get a nomination - I can assure you, there is something much more to those stories than what appears on the surface. That candidate did something or said something that was incredibly stupid somewhere along the line. Maybe their BGO doesn't even know about it.

    Look at the LOA letter. Has it been cc'd to your MOCs? It probably has. If not - make sure you send the MOCs a copy of the LOA. They need to know your son has an LOA.
     
  18. AikiBudo

    AikiBudo Member

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    Memphis is right. USNA does not give out a lot of LOAs - this means they really want the candidate. Most MOCs are happy to help out.
     
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Not necessarily. You are opening up an entirely new discussion here. usna1985 can tell you about extremely highly competitive areas where there are more than 10 highly qualified individuals. And MOCs can play games. I personally know of those who have. Knowing that the LOA would receive the competitive principal, they are afraid to nominate a principal +competitive not being sure that their selected principal will accept the appointment, knowing that a principal with numbered alternates would be obviously playing the system, simply leave the LOA off the slate, knowing that the Academy will find an opening. This used to be the case but CGO seems resolute in no longer following this path, at least to the extent they have in the past. Actual interview: "What will you do if you don't receive an appointment to USNA" (LOA in hand). "I will probably accept the full scholarship which I have received to (Prestigeous private university)". "They have NROTC. WIll you participate?" "I don't know, I haven't decided yet. No further explanation requested. Result: Nomination not received. Candidate not serious about Naval career. Reality: LOA admitted by Supts appointment and MOC awarded another principal.
     
  20. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I'm not saying these isolated stories of a candidate who had an LOA and didn't get an appointment wasn't "highly qualified". Being highly qualified does not provide immunity from doing or saying something stupid.

    But isn't this interview exchange an example of saying something rather stupid? You never indicate (or even hint) that you are not serious about a naval career when interviewing to get admission into the Naval Academy. Duh.
     

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