LOA received, where does nomination come from?

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Coach62, Nov 27, 2015.

  1. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    Just curious here.

    I was just told by a local admin officer that since my son received an LOA that the senators are not likely to give him a Nom, and that the MOC may do the same. He said they consider it a wasted nomination.

    He knows what he's talking about, he's been in this area for years. So, that leaves the question, since those nominations appear unlikely, where would it come from? The only condition on his LOA was the nomination.

    He also said that he's never personally seen someone receive an LOA and not get an appointment.
     
  2. brovol

    brovol Member

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    I wonder if he meant that they won't give him a principal nomination. I believe everyone must secure a nomination. If he has one, with a LOA, then he is good, but he will need to be 3 qualified still.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  3. Norfolk63

    Norfolk63 privateer

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    Most likely he is referring to LOA candidates not being charged against the MOC slate of 10 noms.
     
  4. brovol

    brovol Member

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    I thought it did still count in terms of the moc's 10 nominations per appointment slot, but did not count in terms of the MOC's 5 total slots (total students at the academy at any one time). Am I wrong on that?
     
  5. time2

    time2 Member

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    He still needs a NOM to get an appointment. Perhaps you misunderstood something he told you. Where a NOM gets charged can be different from where it is issued.
     
  6. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    A Nom is required. There are other sources outside the MOCs. If you read the sticky on nominations thread it provides a list of all sources. And yes what your BGO mentions is a possibility. A MOC could essentially 'game' the system and not give him a Nom or use a principle on another candidate. This would either require USNA to use a Supt's nom or any other source he is possibility eligible for. A MOC could do this because he or she thinks that your son received an LOA, USNA already wants him bad enough, they will find him a Nom. This allows a MOC to have more candidates from your area at USNA. There are a ton of scenarios that could play out in this situation that would allow your son get a Nom. Fingers crossed it all works out and best of luck.
     
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  7. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    As usual NavyHoops you're a great help. It's a bit unnerving to know after working his butt off to get the LOA he may have to scramble for a Nom.
     
  8. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    To be honest if I had that scenario I would be too. What they can do is give a ranked slate and put your son last on the list. This gives him a Nom, but likelihood of winning a ranked slate that low obviously drops too. This essentially allows your son a Nom and another nearly guaranteed candidate getting in from your district. It allows your DS to move onto the NWL. Only those with a MOC Nom can go to the NWL. This would allow him to receive a Sec Nav Nom yet not be charged to his MOC. There are also very limited Supt noms. But once again, USNA controls all these.

    In no way am I saying this is what will happen, but it is a way a MOC can 'game' the system. Hopefully I haven't screwed this up. You can read up on how the NWL works as there are plenty of older threads on it. It is rare for an LOA candidate to not get a Nom, but of course no one wants to be 'that guy'. Will definitely be following to see what happens! Statistically he should be good so that is the bright side.
     
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  9. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    Thank you once again, the more I learn, the more confused I am LOL.....

    On a side note, My son scored 20 pts in last night's game, the bad news is that was almost half the teams points:( We played a VERY talented team and were just outmatched.
     
  10. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    The national pool consists of ALL (i.e. MOC, ROTC, Presidential, etc.) candidates who received a nomination and were not selected for an appointment from their slate. The catch is that 75% of those offered appointments from the national pool MUST have been nominated by a MOC, while up to 25% can come from non-MOC sources. This is yet another reason why you should be applying to ALL sources. For example, if you only receive a Presidential and are not one of the 100 who receive an appointment from this source, then you have limited yourself in the national pool, whereas, if you applied and received a MOC nomination, not only does it help with an additional slate, but now you are not limited in the national pool!
     
  11. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    08, thanks for clarification on break down. Didn't realize that 25% can come from others. Make sure to apply for the VP Nom also, it's probably the easiest of all to apply for.
     
  12. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    I'll make sure he did, he most likely already did. He still hasen't had his MOC interview yet. That's in a week. I guess his MOC does things weird and likes to keep things secret. This whole political thing is the unnerving part.
     
  13. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    I'm curious as to how that math works out. 75% of 1200 is 900. Each MOC gets 1.25 appointments (5 every 4 years). 1.25 X 535 (MOC's) = 669 which leaves 231. Not questioning you of course just trying to understand the process. I appreciate your advice and will make sure he's done a VP also.

    You'd think the VP would get more than 5 nominations. I understand the dean gets up to 50, correct?
     
  14. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    There is no easy way, but you might want to ask your MOC's office. I had a similar experience on a nomination panel, where one member suggested that we don't give a nomination to a candidate with an LOA. The committee decision was we will give nomination based on merit. If the MOC's answer is yes, you could try to get the admissions office to engage the MOC's office to reconsider. Sometimes, it's a lack of understanding or misunderstanding, not a political calculation. For some MOC's office, SA nomination is an additional duty given to a staffer or one staffer has been doing it for forever.
     
  15. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    There is the NWL and the Supt's Noms too. If I remember right the NWL is 150 and Supt's is 50. The Dean I don't believe gets any... its the Supt. There can also Noms for ROTC, children of deceased/100% disabled vets, kids of KIA/MIA, kids of MOH recipients, prior enlisted noms, also US Territories can nominate candidates. These Noms all have different rules, regs and limitations.
     
  16. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    I wasn't perfectly clear on the 75% criteria (since for most, it is MOCs), but it applies to:

    Coach62, the 75% doesn't apply to the overall number of appointments (which is what you were applying it to), it applies to those in the national pool. The national pool is composed of those who were on a slate and were not a slate winner (i.e. the 8.75 other candidates, the # of those qualified for a presidential nomination - 100, etc.) and there is some overlap (i.e. candidate who had a presidential and MOC nomination but was not selected from either slate -- they are only counted once). This ends up being a decent sized number when you consider those who fit this criteria AND are triple qualified (probably around ~2,200). From that pool, the 75% rule is applied. For arguments sake, if after all the slates were decided, there were 200 appointments left...that means 150 of the appointments must (and it can be more than 75%...it just has to be AT LEAST) be candidates who were nominated from the sources above (and were not slate winners).

    Bottom line...no need to worry about the fuzzy math, candidates should apply to ALL eligible sources (especially those listed above).
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  17. Fast505

    Fast505 Member

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    Very helpful thread, esp with DS coming from an ultra-competitive district (MD-5). Sounds like we should not be surprised if my DS does not top any slate even with his LOA. In fact, he is the third candidate from his HS with an LOA, although one is apparently set on going USAFA.
     
  18. Coach62

    Coach62 Member

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    Thank you and hoops for your help, it's really appreciated. One last question I promise.

    If the MOC issues a list of 10 and my DS is somewhere on the list but not at the top, does that count as a Nom?
     
  19. proudofmyboy

    proudofmyboy Member

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    yes...
     
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  20. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Yes! Good luck to him. Keep us posted on the Nom and hoops season!
     

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