Low PCSM Score for Pilot

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by cowskee, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. cowskee

    cowskee New Member

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    Hello all,

    I took the TBAS today, and quite frankly, I'm pretty shocked at my results. I thought I did well on it, and I was surprised that I ended up getting a 30 PCSM score (out of 100). My AFOQT Pilot score was decent, a 67, but I have zero flight hours. Paying to get flight hours is pretty much out of the question. Other than my PCSM score, I feel like I stack up decently for rated packages:

    PFA (15%): 100
    GPA (10%): 3.66, Civil Engineering
    PCSM (40%): 30, with a 67 pilot and 0 flight hours
    FT (15%): Bottom third
    RSS (20%): Top 10%

    I'll probably go in and talk to my Det Commander about my options at this point; however, I have several questions if any of you have any info or have been through the rated process before:

    1. What have the average PCSM scores been for selects of the new PCSM 2.0 program?

    2. Should I re-take the AFOQT and try to score higher on my pilot section? It's a mystery how much it is weighed in the PCSM, but if I can get it up to an 80 or above, then maybe I can raise my PCSM 15-20 points?

    3. Most of the other cadets I've talked to have had high PCSM scores because their flight hours jacked up their scores 20-30 points. For example, if I get 200 hours, I can raise my score up to a 76 PCSM....so are there other cadets in my boat who don't have flight hours and have low PCSM scores?

    Thanks for the input.
     
  2. cowskee

    cowskee New Member

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    To piggy back on this, the other cadets who tested with me today also got low PCSM scores: one got a 7, and the other got a 33 (and he had similar AFOQT pilot score as me). They also didn't have any flight hours. So, is this a new trend if you don't have any flight hours and you take the TBAS?
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    FT Bottom third? Honestly if that is not a mistake it might ding you a lot.
     
  4. Zero

    Zero Member

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    Bottom third and top third is not even that large of a difference, maybe 5 points in order of merit, hardly a big hit. But 1 flight hour can make a huge difference. It is like 99 dollars to get a "discovery or intro flight" which will give you one hour and a log book. Make it happen, it will boost your score a lot. Talk to your cadre, its risky retaking the AFOQT incase you fail other portions or do worse on the pilot section. Get 100 dollars, get 1 hour it can raise your score like 10 or more points.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with Zero regarding getting at least one flight hour.

    My poi t about being bottom third dinging them is if they placed all four on their list, it could be a make or break between pilot and CSO or RPA.
    ~ The OP said flight hours are basically a no good, hence I am looking at only the cards they are currently holding.
    ~~ A cadet with even 0 hours top 50% is still going to have more points....hence the ding remark.
    ~~~I am curious as an engineering major they didn't score in the 90s for pilot and :nav since it really is close to the ACT M and Science portions.
    ~~~~ My DH and DS jokingly say if they told me what was asked on the TBAS they would have to kill me, so I really don't know what the AFOQT or TBAS is like.

    Without a doubt 3.66 cgpa in tech will help.

    To be honest, I would ask the folks for Xmas, birthday, graduation, etc. Flight hours, and preferably with an IP that has AF flight hours. Getting a UPT slot is step one, but IFS is the first big hurdle.
    ~ You will arrive at Pueblo on Wed. and your first bold face exam will be Friday. Bust it and you will retake on Monday. 2nd exam will be Tuesday or Wednesday.. While you are studying for the retake, the others are studying for the next exam.
    ~~ Bold face is serious, miss a comma or period and you answered incorrectly.

    25% typically wash out/bust IFS. Flight hours will help you.

    Once you get past the academics and get up in the air, landing can be the next biggie. Cross winds without flying experience can be daunting and stressful.
    ~ Bust one and you will be put up for what the AF calls an 88 ride. Bust the 88 and you will be sent for an 89. Bust 89 and you will be FEBd
    ~~ OBTW at the same time you are taking academic tests too.

    That sounds scary, but once in UPT they amp it up even more.

    Our DS had solo'd few hours short of a PPL, and still at UPT he had problems.

    I am not trying to be Janie Raincloud, but trying to stress that Zero is right. You have the academic smarts, but being a pilot is also about handling the stick. Please hit raimius signature link on this forum so you get a true perspective of what life will be like once you start IFS.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2014
  6. hadha

    hadha Member

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    I have no insight to add, as I'm in the same boat you're in, but I just wanted to mention that I got a 31 PCSM score with a 67 Pilot AFOQT score and no flight hours. So you're definitely not alone :/ Hopefully we still have a chance to make it in!
     
  7. T210Flyer

    T210Flyer New Member

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    Nah. making your socks smile isnt going to get you a pilot slot. HOURS, HOURS, HOURS.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree hours are the most important thing, but what commander is going to rack and stack you as their top cadet compared to others in your unit IF you were the bottom at FT?

    PCSM is only part of the score. A big part, but SFT and CoC is almost equal to that percentage.

    So, in essence that bottom third at SFT can come back and bite you twice. Can you honestly say if your unit is like my DSs and 15 apply for rated, the CoC is going to rank them at the top if 10 of them graduated from SFT in the top third?

    If the answer is no, and the CoCs ranking equals 20% than it can ding you twice. That was my point. It is not just the small percentage for the board, but how it can impact another percentage.

    In the end not everyone is going to get pilot, some are going to get RPA or CSO or ABM. Every single point matters.
     
  9. cowskee

    cowskee New Member

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    Hi all,

    Sorry for the delay in responding to your posts. Finals are here and I've been busy. I went in and talked to my detachment commander, and he said not to worry too much about the low PCSM score. According to him we had cadets in the 40's get picked up. He also said that even if I got a 99 on the AFOQT-Pilot, the highest PCSM score I could get with no flight hours is a 50. I've came to the decision that I'm going to get roughly 6 hours of flight time over break to bring my PCSM score into the 40's.

    I'm not too worried about the low FT rank; its in the past and there's nothing I can do about it anymore. I have a great relationship with my det commander, and did an excellent job as a POC - flight commander, wing staff position, etc... Compared to the other cadets graduating in my fiscal year, I am confident that I will have a good commanders ranking (which counts for 25% as opposed to 15% for FT).

    Furthermore, I have excellent GPA, and a perfect PFA score, which combined count for 20% of package. Therefore, it's pretty clear at this point all I have to control is my PCSM score. I'm going to be shuffling out roughly $150/hr over break to get the 6 hours I need to get my PCSM score to where I want it.

    In the end, all I can do at this point is speculate - and It's not really worth the time. Packages go in between now and 5 JAN, so I'll just have to wait and pray. Good luck to all of the other cadets out there who are going through the same process, I hope you all get what you desire! Also, thank you to all of you who responded to this thread!
     
  10. cowskee

    cowskee New Member

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    One more quick thing, if anyone was wondering what the breakdown is...I am in the process of filling out the paperwork now and this is the breakdown I was given in a MFR from the AFROTC Registrar:

    FT - 15%
    PFA - 10%
    GPA - 10%
    RSS (Commander's ranking) - 25%
    PCSM - 40%

    Hope this helps anyone who didn't know.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You have the right attitude. Worrying isn't going to accomplish anything. The AF knows that there is going to be a pilot shortage very soon. Feb will be here soon enough. Good luck.
     
  12. becksgirl

    becksgirl Member

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    I'm just curious when you guys first took the TBAS? My son is going to compete for a rated spot and his detachment is in the works to schedule his test for next week before he flies home for break. Did you take it multiple times already?

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If I recall correctly, you must wait 180 days before you can retake it. I doubt many cadets take it more than once before going up for the first rated board.

    Our DS didn't take it until mid Dec. and had his scores within a week.
     
  14. undflyboy

    undflyboy Member

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    Interesting. I have a 66 with no flight hours. AFOQT is 96.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    a 96 AFOQT is a great score.

    I think it is really hard to gauge what the score to feel safe for this year will be needed. The reason why is this years group was the first year that had to announce last year before SFT selection if they were going to go rated. Nobody knows the size of the pool. Nobody knows if some of these cadets decided to go rated for the sft slot and in years past would not have opted this route.
    ~ The problem is they can only push so many student through UPT at one time. They only have so many hours in a day and so many instructors and aircraft. Currently they have @9 month backlog at UPT. It also impacts airframe training. My DSs unit runs 24/7 6 days a week to get them through. On Sunday it is a 12 hour tempo.

    Cowskee,

    Make sure you bring your log book in as proof that you got the hours in. At least, our DS had to bring his in, but he did it when he took the TBAS, I am assuming you can take it to the det. and they can submit it into your records for you.

    Also, if you can research flight schools, try to find someone that has prior military flight experience because they will know what instructors pay attention to for flying aspects. Some actually have different type of aircraft that are similar to IFS aircraft.
     
  16. undflyboy

    undflyboy Member

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    Clearly I can't type well on my phone. I meant to say I have a 66 PCSM with no flight hours. Which is why I thought it was interesting that someones det commander said the highest you can get with no flight hours is a 50.
     
  17. T210Flyer

    T210Flyer New Member

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    OR, rush a Guard or Reserve unit and they could give 2 ****s about FT or *** kiss RSS. They want to know if you can fly and if you are someone guys can spend 6 months in the desert with.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Guard and reserve units are different. Like you stated they want to know if they are a fit in the unit, but for these posters they have signed their contracts and will now need HQ AFROTC to release them. Last year they did release cadets, but I don't believe they have stated if this will be an option for 16. On top of that the units need to be hiring.
     
  19. Zero

    Zero Member

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    I personally would highly doubt your CoC is going to rate you lower because of your FT score. First off FT is FT and your ranked there for a reason. Your det ranking is to rank you for your actions at the Det. not at FT otherwise why have both? Every CoC is different so it may be the case but I would doubt it is that way everywhere.
     
  20. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

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    Does the AFOQT score really equate to a better pilot? What are some of the scores that people on this board got who later made it through UPT? From what I've seen the scores can range from 1-99, right? I guess my question is how accurate that the score can predict how good of a pilot you will be? I am still learning so much about the process and trying to soak it all up so that I have the best information when the time comes.
     

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