Major at Other Academy

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Jayceguy, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello, I most likely will be attending west point as that is where I have a prin nom but I wanted to go to the naval academy to fly and get an aero engineering degree. West point only has aero systems engineering, which is not what I want. I know cadets can attend other academies for a semester if they choose, so I was wondering if I could study at USNA and take the aero engineering classes west point doesn't have, then go back to west point and take the other required classes. To sum things up, is it possible to get a degree in a major offered at an academy I will not be primarily attending? I realize I made this more confusing than it actually is.

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  2. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    If I understand your question, the answer is no.

    First, universities, including the SAs, must be accredited. Each major offered by the school must be accredited -- or, the school must be accredited to offer that major. To my knowledge, no school can offer a major for which that school is not accredited. Thus, if WP is not accredited for aero, you can't major in it at WP.

    Second, do not count on being able to exchange. Only a very small number of mids/cadets can exchange -- something like 12 per year. Not only must they stand VERY high in their class, but they must be able to complete their major in 4 yrs while taking classes at the other SA. Thus, if you are majoring in Ocean Engineering at USNA and it's not offered at WP, you must be able to fit the courses you need in the 3.5 years at USNA (or take analogous courses at WP) in order to exchange.

    Third, you do not need to major in aero in order to fly. USNA will beat that into your head. Pilots come from all majors. Majoring in aero is terrific -- but do it b/c you have an interest in the major, not b/c it will make you a better pilot.

    Fourth, if your heart is set on USNA, consider whether WP makes sense. I know more than a few people who "settled" on another SA when they didn't get into their first choice. It usually doesn't go well. Even when the person is successful at his/her "second choice," the person is not happy and tends to regret the decision.

    Good luck!
     
  3. time2

    time2 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    270
    ^^ I agree and would also add, what happens if you attend WP and for whatever reason don't get one of flight options when you graduate? If your goal is to fly over any other military obligation, need to understand there are no guarantees when you attend a service academy. Are you also set on a specific airframe? Is so, that is way too early in the process to be focused on that.

    I also don't know what exact courses may vary between those 2 majors you indicated: "Aero engineering" vs. "Aero systems engineering", but perhaps you need to step back and look at the bigger picture before going down a path that doesn't suit you. I would imagine there are some common courses between those majors. Is the difference really that big?
     
  4. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the info, and no I don't want to major in aero in order to fly, I want to major in aero because that's what I'm interested in, hence me wanting to fly. I don't think I could get myself to pass up WP for a not guaranteed USNA appointment next year, that and my parents would probably beat me over the head and call me crazy. If I got a prep school appointment it would probably be a different story. And no I am not settled on an airframe, but would want to be in a fighter. I realize that it is highly competitive, as is anything worth doing. I see USNA to have the most opportunities if one was not able to fly, plus they have the major I want so I was just wondering. What then would be the point to study at another school (other than the experience) if you couldn't get anything not offered at your original academy?

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  5. nuensis

    nuensis USNA 2016

    Joined:
    May 23, 2011
    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    79
    Judging by your posts, you should probably wait for that TWE before considering West Point.

    Don't go to West Point just because you can. If you want to fly jets, you'll have a bad time in the Army.
     
  6. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya I realize that. Everyone tells me I can cross commission, but nowadays that's a real shot in the dark.

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  7. Maplerock

    Maplerock Proud to be an American

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    583
    Likes Received:
    346
    I am all about Navy... But

    There is indeed something special about West Point. If you've been there, you know.

    You're what? 17? 18? I know that I didn't decide on my college major until I was a sophomore. I think you are wise to consider the Army appointment. They are both top notch schools, and Army offers plenty of solid opportunities for you to excel.

    You will still end up being a leader of men. I have had two sons already graduate, and neither has had opportunity to use their degree. They are still active duty and probably will be career officers. They will retire or get out some day, and then they will have the opportunity to use their degree.

    Army has something for you if you truly want to lead. They specialize in that. If you plan on five and dive then your major would be more important early on.

    I would again say a bird in the hand... but actually you have been given the rare chance for a wonderful and fulfilling career. That's better than any old bird.

    The only problem would be if you just don't think you could accept being beaten by Navy every year in football. :)
     
  8. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya that's one thing I guess I'd have to deal with ;)

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  9. futuremarinemom

    futuremarinemom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's still early. Don't give up hope. You may still get an appointment to USNA!
     
  10. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trying to stay hopeful!

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  11. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    If you want to fly fighters have you considered the Air Force? Seriously.

    Also, the reason you exchange is to experience the other SA. It really has little to do with academics or major beyond what I said.

    Interservice transfer is VERY rare. VERY rare.

    You should not attend WP b/c your parents want you to or would "kill you" if you didn't. That is the #1 reason people leave a SA -- they didn't really want to be there. Don't be that person.

    WP is a terrific place -- very special. But it's different than USNA and if it's not what YOU really want, then don't go.
     
  12. JMS

    JMS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2011
    Messages:
    448
    Likes Received:
    11
    I'm not sure what the differences are between areo Engineering and aero systems engineering, but I suspect as an undergrad at any school, they are microscopic. Perhaps the differences would be more meaningful in grad school.
    This may sound more harsh than I want it to, but it seems to me you are contemplating your tea leaves way too much. It is great to have a plan, but consider the fact that your plan will fall apart when you get 'hit in the face' with facts.
    My son is in an engineering program (AROTC). Half way through the first semester a whole bunch (I mean like half) the ROTC engineering majors are now criminology majors. Go to a school you're going to love for a program you think you will love, get your frosh classes under your belt, and expect changes.
     
  13. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    My parents really aren't trying to influence my decisions, I just don't want to let them down. Also, I did apply to AFA. Just waiting for the response.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  14. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    JMS, I suppose I am getting ahead of myself in places I should be. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

    Sent from my Desire HD using Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,810
    Likes Received:
    957
    +1 JMS

    All I keep thinking about is many, many kids will get the TWE, go NROTC, re-apply the following yr and get an appointment.

    Many of these kids because they had plan B applied for NROTC scholarship and received merit scholarships too, go this route, hence if it is financial and you were willing to go NAPS (extending commissioning by a yr) why not go this route?

    For me, I am having trouble understanding via your posts why this is not your plan B.

    It appears that you want fixed wing, fighters as a top choice. Every SA is 4 yrs., and AD is at least 5 yrs. 24/7/365 wherever they decide you will be stationed, and whatever career field they offer you.
    ~ Think SERVICE BEFORE SELF.

    As a hs. sr. you are looking at the short goal, which I get....commissioning and serving in the military, but the ball is in your court for that decision. You choose the service, you choose the degree. 4 yrs from now the ball is in their court for at least the next 5 yrs of your life until you are 27.

    Ask yourself what if the Army doesn't give you a flight slot? What is your plan B career field for the Army?

    Would you have any what ifs? What if I took the NROTC scholarship and re-applied the following yr, would I be at UPT now?

    I am not trying to sway you, if I was, I would say go AF! I am saying that this is not 4 yrs of your life with the Army. It will most likely be a decade (4 yrs SA + 5 yrs AD).

    Best wishes, hopes and luck.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,810
    Likes Received:
    957
    Xposted jaceguy.

    I am going to say this one thing as a parent.

    You will never let them down! Until you are a parent you won't get it. In the end we would rather you be happy than choose a path because you were concerned about letting us down.

    I would honestly sit down with them and have an honest conversation. Our DS applied only to the AFA and AFROTC. We sat him down because we felt the AFA was not a good fit for him personally. In the end he was only doing the AFA because he thought we wanted him to do it. We were supporting him because we thought he wanted the AFA.

    Notice all of us were making assumptions.

    He decided to go AFROTC and commissioned/graduated from his dream college. He is at UPT now.

    His career path was AF, nothing else, and his goal was UPT. He got both.
     
  17. Jayceguy

    Jayceguy Jayceguy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the advice. I have completed both the afrotc and nrotc applications so that is a very real option. I've even been told to go to WP for a year and reapply. I guess I've just got to figure out what I'm going to do. Still have to wait and see where I get accepted. Thanks again

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,810
    Likes Received:
    957
    One last thing from an anecdotal perspective. If I am correct you have a prin. to WP.

    Our friend's DS got a prin. to AFA, he wanted USNA. This is a state that the MOCs spread the wealth. 1 nom tops! He had no LOA to either the AFA or USNA..

    He contacted the MOC staff personally and told them that he really wanted USNA. He was even willing to take the chance as an alt. if that was going to be his only nom. The staff contacted the USNA prin. to see if they would switch. Fate was with him because the USNA prin wanted AFA. The MOC switched the nom, and both were able to attend their number 1 choice.
    ~~~ The fact is when you place 3 SAs on the list, and rotate the top 3 between the 3 MOCs you risk the chance of getting only one nom to the one that was not your 1st choice. In their case the two had placed their number 1 option on that slate, when it really wasn't their true number 1 choice.

    Just saying maybe you should talk to your BGO and ask if this is something you should consider. They may say in your state it is not wise, or they may say that give it a shot.

    JMPO, I would not do this without talking to your BGO 1st.
     
  19. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,511
    Likes Received:
    461
    Don't know who told you that but they aren't giving you good advice. For various reasons, SAs don't like to "pilfer" from each other -- IOW, your chances of being appointed to USNA directly from USMA are EXTREMELY small, if they exist at all. If you don't get into your first choice of SA, and you don't think you'll be happy at your second choice, go to civilian college and reapply. Your odds will be much better.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,810
    Likes Received:
    957
    jaceguy,

    If I recall you were concerned about sitting height for flying. I.E. not eligible for fighters since they are ejection seat.

    I ask because from a flying perspective (fixed wing) I get the cross roads.

    That being said, I have to say the people telling you some of these things need to be questioned where they are getting their information from.

    I agree with USNA regarding re-applying from WP.
    ~ You will need a nom. Why on earth would they give you a nom again when you are at an SA currently?

    You also posted on the AFA forum that you were told 80% of AFA grads for 13 went to RPA, which has been proven false.

    Finally, I am making an assumption here, but I believe the same will be true for the Navy regarding pilots.
    http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/11/14/af-pilots-rejecting-bonuses-to-leave-service.html

    Airlines are going to start hiring at a much higher rate, and that means for fixed wing pilots they will be leaving as fast or faster than the Navy can replace them.
    ~ AF wings pilots @ 1 yr. Navy is closer to 2 yrs.

    You have to ask at the end of the day the WHAT IF?

    What if I went USMA and got a helo?
    ~ What if I don't?

    What if I go NROTC for a yr and get USNA?
    ~ What if I don't and commission NROTC, but get a rated slot?

    Which one would you choose?
    ~ Gut answer should not be rated, it should be the service branch, especially if you want to make a career because, anyone that has made O5+ will tell you that to make rank you have to also fly a desk too, be it PME or something else. I don't think there are many O6s that didn't do PME in residence and a Pentagon tour.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013

Share This Page