Making religious freedom pay

cb7893 said:
Or like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhKELP-7UD8
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Boogity Boogity Boogity Amen really hooks you.

BTW, no disrespect meant for chaplains, I pass by this monument to a particluar chaplain when I take my elderly parents to church each sunday.


Watters-Monument.gif
 
aglages said:
Please describe how you would imagine the "initial contact" would occur that would not be considered force feeding, harrassment or proselytizing. Just curious how you envision this.
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Bill: Hey John, how's it going?
John: Good, you?
Bill: Great, God is good! Makes me feel like I should share the blessings I have been given. John, would you like to talk about faith?
John: No thanks Bill.
Bill: Ok, well if you ever do, just let me know.

Nothing forced there. But that because Bill backed off when John said no.


The example of harrassment would be more along the lines of:

Bill: Hey John, how's it going?
John: Good, you?
Bill: Great, God is good! Makes me feel like I should share the blessings I have been given. John, would you like to talk about faith?
John: No thanks Bill.
Bill: John, you never know when it's your time. You don't want to go to hell do you?
John: I'm just not comfortable with this Bill.
Bill: Well John, it's going to be much worse when your burning in the fires of hell for eternity. You need to hear what I have to say now. I'm only concerned for your soul.
John: Bill I said now...



Ok, so you can see where that goes.

Now maybe Bill is secure in his faith in both examples, and maybe Bill is concerned for John's wellbeing in both case.... but in the first case Bill says something and when John tells him no, he lets it drop. In the second case he continues to pursue. That continued push IS harrassment. The first example.... is not.
 
Norwichdad"

+1
Some of the best officers I ever met were Chaplains. Always careing and there for anyone whatever their persuasion.
 
aglages said:
Isn't this sharing your faith with a polite offer to share more?
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I'd classify it as such. I'm also willing to get there's someone out there willing to make a stink about "polite offers to share more."
 
LineInTheSand said:
.. I'm also willing to get there's someone out there willing to make a stink about "polite offers to share more."
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And we're back to the beginning of this thread:
:groupwave:Military Religious Freedom Foundation founder and president Mikey Weinstein
 
aglages said:
Where does the money come from that pays MWs salary..You? Enough people believe in what he does and evidently don't mind his compensation....otherwise they wouldn't donate. Supposedly MW did help save our USAFA cadets from the offensive whiteboard.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=36914&highlight=white+board

JMPO...but Evangelical Christians and others who seem to feel the need to proselytize tend to be the ones most opposed/offended by MW.

Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh III has told lawmakers that service members have a right not to be proselytized to by religious airmen.
“You have every right to your beliefs and to practice your faith freely. If someone asks you about your faith, tell them everything about it. [But] if they don’t ask you, don’t assume they want or need to know.
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Regarding where the money comes from, I doubt that MRFF is what the IRS calls “publically supported”. I suspect that the majority of its support comes from a few grants and large donations. I would be very surprised if MRFF support comes from servicemen giving $20/month or so as they would to other charitable organizations. My point is that MRFF is most likely pushing a few group’s ideas. Of course they like what they are getting! Please look at the MRFF’s Form 990 and tell me if I am wrong. It is available for public inspection.

Regarding sharing my faith, I can listen to Joe Soldier tell me what sex, booze, and rap have done for his life, but if I tell him what Jesus has done in mine, I’m up on charges? That’s sweet! Oh, wait, I can just walk away if I don’t like what I hear (I do!). I agree with LITS about first conversations… they are a “fork in the road” that I can take or ignore.

My thrust with the o.p. was truly not whether you are cool with MRFF or whether they have a right to do what they do (they do!), but rather how you feel about MRFF being a straw nonprofit. Most of would be outraged if we found that the president of a local charitable or service nonprofit was paying himself 50% of the organization’s income. This suggests that salary plus operating expenses (staff, car, travel, office expense) exceed 90% of community donations, and that little of value was being returned to the community.

My answer to the o.p. questions is that MRFF succeeds only because it’s views are supported and encouraged at the highest federal level. By the way, we are not a nation of laws. We are a nation of administrative regulations that interpret and enforce laws as bureaucrats see fit. The regs relating to unwelcome proselytizing are examples of this. Regs are virtually impossible for the average person to challenge.
 
Is this where I have to say that the highest federal level isn't always right? :biggrin:
 
If I may quote myself from my first post in this thread:
JMPO...but Evangelical Christians and others who seem to feel the need to proselytize tend to be the ones most opposed/offended by MW.
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The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
'Winston Churchill'
 
Proselytizing in the military is analogous to prayer in church. Both are promoted primarily by evangelical christians. Why? IMHO, it’s because they see a captured audience. Just as kids cannot walk out of the classroom, airmen, particularly junior members, have a limited sphere in which they’re allowed to move. Plus, being allowed to enter that sphere could easily be seen as tacit approval of the message being relayed.

I too believe that Chaplains serve an extremely useful purpose as councilors. All that I have met go out of their way to be available to any member without regard to their potentially different beliefs. But non-denominational “chaplains” would be just as praise worthy; you don’t have to be religious to have compassion and understanding.
 
Qualifications For Chaplin

Twenty years service by age sixty two.

Possess a bachelors degree (120 hours & 180 quarter hours from an accredited institution)

Poses a graduate degree of no less than seventy two semester hours in the field of theology or related studies from a qualified education institution.

Must have an endorsement from a qualified religious organization that is registered with the DOD

Like I said. Whatever their persuasion they were the best.
 
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