Marine transportation vs. logistics

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by vampsoul, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    Which major would be better for someone seeking a commission? What are the major differences between the two majors? Is one more math or English oriented than the other? Thanks.
     
  2. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Seeking a commission in which service? which branch? Navy SWO vs Army Logistics, etc.

    To be honest your major doesn't matter too much when it comes time to do your job in the military. Some have some minor benefits over others, but you may have some specific instances based on which branch and corps or service you are looking at.
     
  3. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    Mainly I am just wondering about the main differences between the 2 majors. From the catalog, it looks like they have almost all of the same courses.
     
  4. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    They do...I'll have to leave it to one of the more recent grads or current midshipmen to explain the differences as that major was added after I was already there.
     
  5. 2009KPer

    2009KPer Member

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    Either major will equally prepare you to sail as a deck officer. Marine Trans (commonly referred to as "straight deck") has nothing that Logistics doesn't. Logistics majors do take a few extra business/logistics classes, in addition to the Marine Trans classes. Straight deckies get a few more electives to make up for the lack of the other classes.

    The third deck major, Maritime Operations and Technology (referred to as the "shopper" program) is Marine Trans with some engine classes thrown in and is probably the most demanding of the deck majors - you only get one true elective over all four years. It's the closest thing that KP currently has to the old Dualie major.
     
  6. vampsoul

    vampsoul Candidate

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    Ah, I get why they call it "straight deck" now. I was working on my KP essay, and you have to say which major you intend, so I wanted to be clear between the differences of the deck majors. Thank you.
     
  7. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Upon successful completion of Marine Operations and technology - "shopper" a successful candidate should also be elgible for certification as a "Qualified Member of the Engine Department" - QMED as well as having their Thrid Mate's ticket. Under the "old Dualie" program 2009KPer mentions you sat for both the Third mate and Third A/E liscence. Because of the increased SCTW watchstanding requirements it's just impossible in four years to get the watchstanding time for to qualify and sit for both Liscences in 4 years.

    The idea of the "shopper" program is that if a newly graduated KP shopper desires they can ship as a QMED and then using that time sit for their Third A/E. Apparently of the State Maritime Academies, Cal Maritime now has a similar program as well.

    2009KPer has provided a nice short and sweet, laymen's/regular guy's description of the differences.
     
  8. kpmom2013

    kpmom2013 Member

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    Shopper

    If a KP graduate really does not want to work as an engineer (and thus does not intend to become licenced) is there any professional advantage to a deckie having the QMED? (Communicating with your engineers? Driving modern ships with unmanned engine rooms?) It seems like a lot of extra work and totally removes any elective classes. Just wondering what the tradeoffs are if anyone has any input.
     
  9. 2009KPer

    2009KPer Member

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    I was a shopper, so my view on the program may be a little biased, but here goes...

    I would say that if you want to sail as a deck officer, this is the best major within the deck side. Yes, it is more work and you lose electives, but the experience gained by working in the engine room can be applied to work on deck, especially on tankers (where the deck officers are directly responsible for a lot of machinery) and tugs (many of which often don't carry dedicated engineers). Remember, though - we still had a full load of deck classes and got the same deck license as the other deckies.

    I'm a very hands-on person and love working with machinery and tools, so I very much enjoyed my experience "working in the basement" and I know that the engineers also liked to see a deckie that wanted to learn more about what goes on down there. It's amazing how many mates (and captains, for that matter) have no clue about the e/r machinery and can't always appreciate what goes on down there, the limitations of the equipment or why things are the way they are.

    While I don't consider myself at all to be anywhere close to a licensed engineer, the 90+ days I spent there plus the classroom learning was just an experience that we had, that the other deckies didn't.

    My $.02
     
  10. kpmom2013

    kpmom2013 Member

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    2009KPer

    Thanks for your perspective. My son is still determined to go this route even though everyone at KP seems to be trying to talk him out of it. I appreciate your perspective, and I will forward it on to him.
     
  11. 2009KPer

    2009KPer Member

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    I got the same stuff said to me too by upperclassmen when I got there.

    Do NOT let him listen to it!!! The mids (and others) who push that are usually not part of that major, so they (especially the mids) really don't know what they're talking about. NOBODY who was in my section at the end regretted doing it and we were probably the most tightly-knit section (only 21 of us in '09). Do not worry about those who say that "the engine stuff will detract from his deck education." We had some of the highest averages in our deck classes and did better on license than the other sections - your deckie stuff will not suffer much, if at all. The best faculty contacts at KP for the shoppers (including those prospective plebes) are CAPT Brown and CDR Gardner, both Dept of Marine Eng. I would encourage your son to talk to them before making his decision, as well as some upperclassmen who are actually shoppers, preferably the first classmen who have already done their engine time.

    I should also add that IF he doesn't like it (or can't hack the extra academics), he can always "downgrade" to straight deck, with little consequence, if any. Doing the opposite (ie: starting as straight deck and deciding he wants to be a shopper) is damn near impossible, especially after plebe year.
     
  12. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    My son is a 2012 "shopper"; I wanted to go Daul but didn't make the cut Plebe Year in 1979. Every word of KP2009's post is IMHO totally right on. For my 2 cents if you want to be a Deckie and want to go into the Commercial Maritime Industry post graduation, it's the best major to take. I also understand from my son there are two Cal Martime :shopper" grads on his current ship that he is sailing his first sea year on and they say the same thing, and tell him the attitude/reaction of "non-shoppers" is similar at Cal as well...
     
  13. kpmom2011

    kpmom2011 Member

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    As far as majors and math it is my understanding that System Engineering has the most math, and the most advanced. Also with a Systems Engineer major your son/daughter may select a minor. It's the only major at KP that offers a minor. The class of 2011 had several choices of minors, Nuclear, Offshore Oil Drilling, Electrical and I know others, but can't think of it. I've also been told that if one is thinking about trying to go flight (active duty), a degree in engineering helps. my 2 cents :shake:
     
  14. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Major doesn't matter for flight...if that's a goal pick the one you will enjoy the most and do the best in.
     
  15. deepsea

    deepsea Member

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    As a shopper Alum, I recommend it to anyone who wants to go deck. A mate coming out of a straight deck curriculum on todays ships or especially working on an older ship will use every bit of practical engineering training. I frequently tell candidates that the most useful class I took at Kings Point was electrical engineering. I use it everyday on our vessels here at KP, at my house, my car, etc...... I worked on ships as a chief mate where I did way more engineering work than "deckie" work, and have seen some horrible mates with no understanding of basic engineering concepts get in alot of trouble at sea.
     

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