I guess it shows my ignorance, as a parent, I've never heard of a "Little Ivy." Or maybe its because we live in the west. Out of curiosity, did your school counselor and/or you have to sign an agreemenent to accept at the Ivy school if accepted? I thought early decision schools required you and your counselor to agree in advance to accept the admission if offered. As I recall, my DD was not able to apply to early admission schools when she applied to SAs because she and her counselor could not sign the required agreement that she would attend if offered the position. I know counselors at my DD's school made clear that they would only sign these agreements if they were sure the student would fulfill their obligation if accepted because it puts the school and counselor in a bad spot if too many students renige on their agreement. Even if I'm wrong, the suggestions to call the Ivy school (and talk to your counselor if appropriate) seem best.
May be Forced to take USNA Off the Table
- Thread starter Harbor1
- Start date
Freda'sMom
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 299
That is no longer the case, the rules were changed last year.
The schools in the NCAA now have the option of guaranteeing the full 4 years, and some are doing so.
This was from ESPN but I can't post the link.
While the thought process is yours and yours alone, it can't hurt to gather additional information to make a decision.
My opinion is that you should tell the coaches at your "little Ivy" that you are applying regular decision to their school and also to the USNA. If they want you as an athlete they will "hold" a spot for you. Even if they don't, you will have a reasonable chance of being accepted as an RD applicant. If your stats are not good enough to get in as a RD applicant then you are probably better off not going to that school and having to struggle academically for four years. This approach leaves open ALL your options
JMPO....
usna1985
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 7,835
Had this happen to a candidate about 5 yrs ago with a "real" Ivy -- Columbia -- and another last year also with Columbia. Both said it was a binding decision and they withdrew their USNA applications.
I agree with those who suggest contacting the school. Also, I would try to understand how they "enforce" your decision. I understand that you want to do the honorable thing and honor your commitment, but if you back out, what are their options? After all, this is your life.
For those going forward, you are unlikely to hear from any SA before an ED commitment is due. Consider what that means if you apply ED. In some cases, you may really be telling yourself that your ED school is your first choice.
I agree with those who suggest contacting the school. Also, I would try to understand how they "enforce" your decision. I understand that you want to do the honorable thing and honor your commitment, but if you back out, what are their options? After all, this is your life.
For those going forward, you are unlikely to hear from any SA before an ED commitment is due. Consider what that means if you apply ED. In some cases, you may really be telling yourself that your ED school is your first choice.
Doesn't always work that way in the real world. My kid had a D1 offer from a good school. We told the school that we would like a little time to make a decision. Coach said that is fine, but as we need time he will continue to look at other options and if one of the other options takes the offer then our offer would be off the table. College recruiting really is a jigsaw game with tons of moving pieces both on the athlete and coach side.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
There is nothing wrong with making a call, either to the Little Ivy or USNA. If USNA really wants you, it may help them move a little faster... if the Little Ivy understands the situation, maybe they can work it out too.
We assume things are set in stone... it's amazing what a little call can do.
We assume things are set in stone... it's amazing what a little call can do.
Not insinuating anything by the term "Little Ivy", its just what thier called, just like others use "SA's" for service academies. I also don't want it to sound like I was talking my ball and running in the term "it's my decision alone". The whole reason I posted here was to gain experienced advice but in the process was questioned for even showing interest in an option, instructed as to honorable ways out (???), told to withdraw my SA app ASAP, asked why I'd even consider an ED, given mis information on the ED process, told my athletic scholarships offered were wrong, and was cleared on there is "little Ivy" and "Real" Ivies ( taken like USNA is a real commission and ROTC is a Little commission). Hence my regret on the topic.
Attempting to force the NA's hand as suggested is a no go. I'm sure they hear stories all the time and I respect their process. As for the "College", they also have their process and 15k applicants of their own. Athletics, college or not is a business, you have your offer and there is always someone else next in line and they need to fill their spots in efforts to field the best team possible. Athletics especially at this academic level and no ability to offer athletic scholarships use ED as their recruiting tool. Guaranteed Admissions into these school with their 13-18% admission rate is award enough, and delaying until regular decision puts you in the general pool and subject to the needs of the college.
Again, thank you all.
Attempting to force the NA's hand as suggested is a no go. I'm sure they hear stories all the time and I respect their process. As for the "College", they also have their process and 15k applicants of their own. Athletics, college or not is a business, you have your offer and there is always someone else next in line and they need to fill their spots in efforts to field the best team possible. Athletics especially at this academic level and no ability to offer athletic scholarships use ED as their recruiting tool. Guaranteed Admissions into these school with their 13-18% admission rate is award enough, and delaying until regular decision puts you in the general pool and subject to the needs of the college.
Again, thank you all.
I would suggest you figure out how not to take things so personal. All of these folks are actually trying to help you.
Harbor,
Perception is a funny thing for sure. I'm sorry if some of the posts here struck you in a way that was offensive.
Exceptional young people such as yourself deserve to be congratulated for your accomplishments and desire to do great things (as you were several times). And you also deserve to hear honest opinions, differing or otherwise, when you solicit input from people as you did.
On a personal note, my posts to you were not geared on giving you advice, but rather asking you if you already kind of "knew" the right thing for yourself in your heart but needed to look at it fearlessly. For some folks in your position, there is such a passion to do a certain thing beyond school that they want to chase that dream even if it's risky. For others, they want to keep more options open and have only a general sense of where they are headed. I happen to have two children and one falls in each of those camps.
These are important decisions you are making for sure. But continue to think them through as you have, seek good advice, and trust your "inner voice" if it's speaking to you loudly.... even if no one else can hear it.
Good luck and I think you will do well whatever path you decide on.
Didn't take it personal at all and thanked all many times in my posts. Internet posts rarely nail the intent and context so I apologize if it came off that way.
Here is my 2 cents
Colleges are trying to prevent smart kids like you from "college shopping". In my opinion that is their problem not yours. You need to make the biggest and toughest decision of your young life. "Which top school do I choose, as it will shape my life for the next several years and beyond."
You have until November 29 to sign or reject an offer. My question to you and your parents is " is that a legal and binding document that obligates you to commit money'? If answer is yes, is it a simple small deposit you can afford to forfeit, or is the answer no it does not obligate you to pay anything until later in 2014. If there is no financial obligation in signing the document, then sign it and keep waiting on a reply from USNA and any other colleges you may be interested in. This is a free country and you do have the right to change your mind. This school is trying to strong arm you.
Colleges are trying to prevent smart kids like you from "college shopping". In my opinion that is their problem not yours. You need to make the biggest and toughest decision of your young life. "Which top school do I choose, as it will shape my life for the next several years and beyond."
You have until November 29 to sign or reject an offer. My question to you and your parents is " is that a legal and binding document that obligates you to commit money'? If answer is yes, is it a simple small deposit you can afford to forfeit, or is the answer no it does not obligate you to pay anything until later in 2014. If there is no financial obligation in signing the document, then sign it and keep waiting on a reply from USNA and any other colleges you may be interested in. This is a free country and you do have the right to change your mind. This school is trying to strong arm you.
What complicates this whole process is the sports issue. If this young man commits to going there and then backs out at the last minute, he is leaving a void on that team that the coach thought was filled. That isn't fair to his future teamates or the coach.
Yes, but national letter of intent day is not until Feb (I believe) so recruiting continues. Perhaps this coach is using ED as a way to circumvent the NCAA timeline and get Harbor signed before then. Wouldn't be the first time a coach has used admission tricks to get a player he/she wants.
If a coach makes a verbal offer (at least in my kid's sport) and it is accepted then that offer is solid and they don't take it back. The coach doesn't continue to recruit for that same position since in effect that slot is "filled." I just went thru this process this year with my kid so I am pretty familiar with the ins-and-out of it.
I assume you have not been through this process before. It isn't verbal (as in just spoken). It is in writing, but it isn't binding until NLI is signed. It is called a "verbal commitment." Coaches (and players) can back out of verbal committments, but they get a bad reputation so are weary to do that (at least in the sports that I am familiar with).
My kid had a "verbal commitment" at the beginning of junior year in high school to a D1 school and so did many of her friends. Every single one of the verbals was honored by the coaches.
AcademyFriend1
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 200
Dear Harbor,
You may have given up reading by this time! First of all, congratulations -- it sounds like you have some superb athletic and academic accomplishments. Second, you have had a very mature tone on this thread, and it sounds like you are taking a mature and thoughtful approach to exploring your college options.
I am a teacher at a school that has a fair amount of students who play sports at the Division I level and at strong DIII schools, such as the NESCAC schools. I'm relatively familiar with the recruiting process as well as the overall college applications process for fairly selective schools.
You are in a legitimate dilemma. My two cents (if you haven't "closed the banks to deposits") are as follows:
1. An inquiry to the school as a whole if they consider the Service Academies to be subject to the "must withdraw all applications" rule would not lead them to think you are trying to strong-arm or game the system -- the Service Academies are different enough that they certainly would not resent the inquiry. You would not have to direct the inquiry to the coach, but to the admissions office. My gut is that the rule is fairly inflexible, though.
2. I know that the coaches put a lot of pressure on recruits to commit to a program, and that is true at the DIII level as well. My experience in recent years is that coaches will say "we want you, and we want you to show your interest in us by applying ED. If you wait we might not have a spot for you." With that said, the fact that they are pursuing you by pushing you to apply ED does probably mean that you have more leverage than you think. If you choose to, you can try to use that leverage by applying regular decision, while explaining to the coach that the sole reason you are applying regular is because of your interest in the service academies. The coach may be able to see beyond athletics, or at least see that the SA is not a direct competitor. Arguably, it is worth a conversation?
Good luck to you.
You may have given up reading by this time! First of all, congratulations -- it sounds like you have some superb athletic and academic accomplishments. Second, you have had a very mature tone on this thread, and it sounds like you are taking a mature and thoughtful approach to exploring your college options.
I am a teacher at a school that has a fair amount of students who play sports at the Division I level and at strong DIII schools, such as the NESCAC schools. I'm relatively familiar with the recruiting process as well as the overall college applications process for fairly selective schools.
You are in a legitimate dilemma. My two cents (if you haven't "closed the banks to deposits") are as follows:
1. An inquiry to the school as a whole if they consider the Service Academies to be subject to the "must withdraw all applications" rule would not lead them to think you are trying to strong-arm or game the system -- the Service Academies are different enough that they certainly would not resent the inquiry. You would not have to direct the inquiry to the coach, but to the admissions office. My gut is that the rule is fairly inflexible, though.
2. I know that the coaches put a lot of pressure on recruits to commit to a program, and that is true at the DIII level as well. My experience in recent years is that coaches will say "we want you, and we want you to show your interest in us by applying ED. If you wait we might not have a spot for you." With that said, the fact that they are pursuing you by pushing you to apply ED does probably mean that you have more leverage than you think. If you choose to, you can try to use that leverage by applying regular decision, while explaining to the coach that the sole reason you are applying regular is because of your interest in the service academies. The coach may be able to see beyond athletics, or at least see that the SA is not a direct competitor. Arguably, it is worth a conversation?
Good luck to you.