McCain calls out Obama on Marine 1

And the candidate he endorsed in 2008?

She had no leadership experience to compare with a USNA graduate and military officer.

Being an USNA graduate and military officer doesn't give anyone the open road to presidency....I don't think :confused:
 
Being an USNA graduate and military officer doesn't give anyone the open road to presidency....I don't think :confused:

But it does give them more leadership experience than being 1st lady, don't cha think?

Clark criticized McCain for a lack of leadership experience. He is a hypocrite for endorsing Hillary.
 
But it does give them more leadership experience than being 1st lady, don't cha think?

Clark criticized McCain for a lack of leadership experience. He is a hypocrite for endorsing Hillary.

She also held other government positions. (I'm not saying I support her, I never wanted her to win, but if McCain was eligible- so was she.)

The thing about McCain was that he based his campaign off how was a POW and fighter pilot. With all due respect, everyone else focused on either Senatorial, Congressional, and/or other government positions. Ignoring that McCain was ever in the USN (because he really didn't hold any leadership positions there) then they are pretty much both in the same playing field...with different ideals.
 
She also held other government positions. (I'm not saying I support her, I never wanted her to win, but if McCain was eligible- so was she.)

The thing about McCain was that he based his campaign off how was a POW and fighter pilot. With all due respect, everyone else focused on either Senatorial, Congressional, and/or other government positions. Ignoring that McCain was ever in the USN (because he really didn't hold any leadership positions there) then they are pretty much both in the same playing field...with different ideals.

She was in those positions far less than he had been. Maybe if McCain's wife had been president, he would have had more of a chance.


All one has to do is watch Rick Sanchez on CNN to figure out how "quality" that programing is....I feel like I'm watching TMZ when CNN's on.
 
She was in those positions far less than he had been. Maybe if McCain's wife had been president, he would have had more of a chance.


All one has to do is watch Rick Sanchez on CNN to figure out how "quality" that programing is....I feel like I'm watching TMZ when CNN's on.

I'm not saying that she held them for longer periods than McCain (otherwise she'd be 100), I was saying that being an USNA grad/ Military Officer per se doesn't show leadership position. (not going against those that are in the academies, since I'm applying myself, but it's a wild assumption that many people took seriously.) Like saying I was in a pie eating contest, therefore you can count on me finishing my food tonight. (LOL)

I think Sanchez is awesome to listen to (just the way O'Reilly is). He doesn't really try to plant his opinions on anyone, he brings people to his show and discusses the issues with them. With a grain of salt, it't entertaining. (pretty much the same way O'Reillly and others do).
 
I find Rick Sanchez to be an ignorant "a-hole", and that's mostly because of the way he address the people he interviews and the personal bias so prevalent in his "reports".
 
Squadron Command Not leadership?

Ignoring that McCain was ever in the USN (because he really didn't hold any leadership positions there) then they are pretty much both in the same playing field...with different ideals.

From Wikipedia: In 1976 John McCain became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records, and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation.
McCain served as the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate beginning in 1977. His key behind-the-scenes role gained congressional financing for a new supercarrier against the wishes of the Carter administration.


NOT the same as "dodging bullets" with Sinbad the Comedian.
 
I was saying that being an USNA grad/ Military Officer per se doesn't show leadership position.

You are trained at the academies to be a leader...you do not go to the SA to become a pilot or a Ranger or a SWO...you go to get the best education in leading military members. I am sure there are many cadets or now officers from the SA's that will tell you beside going to class they had other leadership positions as a cadet. As a commander in an operational squadron that is at war, there is nothing worse than having to tell a spouse with young children I sent your husband to his death. It takes a great amount of personal mettle to understand that it was something that had to be done and coming to terms with their death...not to be rude to our President or Hillary, but they have never had to send somebody into battle...many many military members have. Clinton took a lot of heat for not truly understanding the military...USS Cole and not capturing UBL are just 2 of the examples.

People now question if President Obama gets the military by removing Iraq too early and becoming friends with Medved from Russia. Be honest, he is willing to get rid of a strategic defense system in Eastern Europe if Russia helps us with IRAN. I get assistance, but I am not willing to sell ourselves out to PUTIN...Medved is the puppet for PUTIN. Look at Russia and how chummy they have become with Chavez, I have no warm and fuzzy feelings about our relationship with Russia...do any of you?


Obama will always have the support of the military, b/c they took an oath, but there is a difference in following orders b/c you are told to and doing it voluntarily. The military was pumped to see McCain win the nom...for the 1st time there would be a guy who lived the life...walked the walk and b/c of his 2 children serving gave a feeling that he understood the price families were currently paying, esp. since one is enlisted an 1 will be a USNA grad. He gained respect sev yrs ago when he demanded Rummys resignation...military members were cheering YES. He put his political life on the line for the surge. He put his political life on the line again by stating he was against torture (for Repubs that was an issue). He said what he thought and that is what killed him politically.

I will support the Obama's for only so long...they understand that they are on tenuous footing with the military. He will have many struggles for sure, but by immediately asking the DOD to reduce their budget by 10%, which in reality hurts our national security and families while at the same time giving 335 million for STDS...condoms or again how much did that mouse in SF get will make the military start to say to themselves HERE WE GO AGAIN.

Do not fool yourself, us old craniums know exactly how that budget will effect the military...Family Support will lose funding....Tri-Care and Concordia will go up in costs...live in base housing and stove breaks it will be considered non-essential and you will wait 3 days+...start expecting to pay for subscriptions...and then there will be also this...CANNIBALIZING JETS even more...PCS's will be paid after the move instead of prior (they did that for TDY's in the 90's)...RIFS...overall due more with less.

Best yet, does Obama believe that his wifes ability to support military families (that is her platform) can occur when the military budget gets cut? The military will cut pay and bennies prior to operational things. Military families always pay first when budgets get cut, whether it is a pay or hospitalization or medical, they hit there first before they stop buying JP8

Personally and off topic I am just ticked at Pres. Obama talking about CEOs getting 27K curtains and he won't accept it, but Michael Smith (did the curtains) is redecorating the WH...How much do you think that will cost. While he asks the military to cut costs...Desiree Rogers was sent on a fact finding mission (tax payer dollars) to attend NY Fashion shows for Michelle...She stayed at the 4 Seasons in NY and flew in a military aircraft....she stated it was to find up and coming designers for Michelle to highlight in her clothing...Cut me an F'ing break...here's an idea...google the designers and have them fly to DC on their own dime and come to the WH, give the savings to Fisher House. Every up and coming designer would max out their own credit cards to dress Michelle, be real nobody would turn down an invite to the WH. WALK THE TALK

Done with my rant...steeling myself for the attack against my beliefs
 
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I find Rick Sanchez to be an ignorant "a-hole", and that's mostly because of the way he address the people he interviews and the personal bias so prevalent in his "reports".

Well "ignorant" can be debatable. But why would anyone watch Bill O'Reilly if all he does is rant and call his guests "stupid" and what-not? Their "a-hole personalities are what are so great watching. The funnier thing is, though, anyone with tangible proof can come up to these people and tell them that they're saying is wrong (mostly it happens through other television shows e.g. The Colbert Report, The Rachel Maddow Show, Daily Show with Jon Stewart, etc where clips would be played and blah blah blah you know the rest). But O'Reilly has history of constantly being wrong. I believe he even acknowledged it once on camera (Many years ago, I don't remember). These people, are the kind of people you think about what they are saying, and if you believe what they're trying to convey, you should still double check and not take it directly as fact, but if you don't believe what they say (even when they show you clips and logically/illogically analyze them in front of you) then that's fine too.
The fact that they are "a-holes" or they have personal bias (Of course they're going to have personal bias, Otherwise instead of a person it would a teleprompter reading from a direct source. I don't think the ratings would be that great that way.) doesn't matter, what they tell/show us does.
 
From Wikipedia: In 1976 John McCain became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He improved the unit's flight readiness and safety records, and won the squadron its first-ever Meritorious Unit Commendation.
McCain served as the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate beginning in 1977. His key behind-the-scenes role gained congressional financing for a new supercarrier against the wishes of the Carter administration.


NOT the same as "dodging bullets" with Sinbad the Comedian.

From Wikepedia: the sky is actually green.

How do you improve an unit's safety records? And from Wikipedia: The Navy's "Meritorious Unit Commendation" was started ten years earlier, and it is of the significance of a bronze medal. I guess you can all this an achievement?

His behind-the-scenes role is what we call "Pork" today, the very same thing many of the people in this forum are against. It's the equivalent of someone putting a pork of billion of dollars to get anything against the wishes of the Obama administration. I don't know if I could call that leadership.
 
You are trained at the academies to be a leader...you do not go to the SA to become a pilot or a Ranger or a SWO...you go to get the best education in leading military members. I am sure there are many cadets or now officers from the SA's that will tell you beside going to class they had other leadership positions as a cadet. As a commander in an operational squadron that is at war, there is nothing worse than having to tell a spouse with young children I sent your husband to his death. It takes a great amount of personal mettle to understand that it was something that had to be done and coming to terms with their death...not to be rude to our President or Hillary, but they have never had to send somebody into battle...many many military members have. Clinton took a lot of heat for not truly understanding the military...USS Cole and not capturing UBL are just 2 of the examples.

People now question if President Obama gets the military by removing Iraq too early and becoming friends with Medved from Russia. Be honest, he is willing to get rid of a strategic defense system in Eastern Europe if Russia helps us with IRAN. I get assistance, but I am not willing to sell ourselves out to PUTIN...Medved is the puppet for PUTIN. Look at Russia and how chummy they have become with Chavez, I have no warm and fuzzy feelings about our relationship with Russia...do any of you?


Obama will always have the support of the military, b/c they took an oath, but there is a difference in following orders b/c you are told to and doing it voluntarily. The military was pumped to see McCain win the nom...for the 1st time there would be a guy who lived the life...walked the walk and b/c of his 2 children serving gave a feeling that he understood the price families were currently paying, esp. since one is enlisted an 1 will be a USNA grad. He gained respect sev yrs ago when he demanded Rummys resignation...military members were cheering YES. He put his political life on the line for the surge. He put his political life on the line again by stating he was against torture (for Repubs that was an issue). He said what he thought and that is what killed him politically.

I will support the Obama's for only so long...they understand that they are on tenuous footing with the military. He will have many struggles for sure, but by immediately asking the DOD to reduce their budget by 10%, which in reality hurts our national security and families while at the same time giving 335 million for STDS...condoms or again how much did that mouse in SF get will make the military start to say to themselves HERE WE GO AGAIN.

Do not fool yourself, us old craniums know exactly how that budget will effect the military...Family Support will lose funding....Tri-Care and Concordia will go up in costs...live in base housing and stove breaks it will be considered non-essential and you will wait 3 days+...start expecting to pay for subscriptions...and then there will be also this...CANNIBALIZING JETS even more...PCS's will be paid after the move instead of prior (they did that for TDY's in the 90's)...RIFS...overall due more with less.

Best yet, does Obama believe that his wifes ability to support military families (that is her platform) can occur when the military budget gets cut? The military will cut pay and bennies prior to operational things. Military families always pay first when budgets get cut, whether it is a pay or hospitalization or medical, they hit there first before they stop buying JP8

Personally and off topic I am just ticked at Pres. Obama talking about CEOs getting 27K curtains and he won't accept it, but Michael Smith (did the curtains) is redecorating the WH...How much do you think that will cost. While he asks the military to cut costs...Desiree Rogers was sent on a fact finding mission (tax payer dollars) to attend NY Fashion shows for Michelle...She stayed at the 4 Seasons in NY and flew in a military aircraft....she stated it was to find up and coming designers for Michelle to highlight in her clothing...Cut me an F'ing break...here's an idea...google the designers and have them fly to DC on their own dime and come to the WH, give the savings to Fisher House. Every up and coming designer would max out their own credit cards to dress Michelle, be real nobody would turn down an invite to the WH. WALK THE TALK

Done with my rant...steeling myself for the attack against my beliefs

Yes, you also go to law school to be trained to be a lawyer, to medical school to become a doctor, etc. Why do we have bad lawyers that graduated from Harvard Law School? Why do we have bad doctors that graduated from Johns Hopkins Medical School? No offense, it was mentioned later in this forum that many will graduate from the academies without the right intentions of becoming the best leaders they could possibly be, and there are those who no matter how hard they try, they come short.:rolleyes:

I'm not going to take your words about the facts you mentioned after that (no offense, I'd have to read it and I really should get some homework started right now) but if you're right, I think it's unwise to "give" Iraq to Russia, but I would like to know the details before giving Pres. Obama the cold shoulder.

I was watching The Rachel Maddow Show (It's hilarious how she resembles that other host from Countdown but I can never remember his name for some reason.) and Barney Frank was talking about how he wanted the military budget to get cut 25% (everyone knows who he is). Anyway, I was just thinking that because obviously this is a biased forum, we can't see it the way everyone outside the military sees it, and he made a compelling case for that decision. Everyone should see/read an excerpt from the conversation.
 
How do you improve an unit's safety records? And from Wikipedia: The Navy's "Meritorious Unit Commendation" was started ten years earlier, and it is of the significance of a bronze medal. I guess you can all this an achievement?

Did you seriously just imply that the significance BRONZE STAR isn't that great?! :eek:
 
Did you seriously just imply that the significance BRONZE STAR isn't that great?! :eek:

No, sir. I did not.
I was seriously asking how you improve safety records, and I was merely defining what he had accomplished. But I mean- I guess that makes him presidential.
 
No, sir. I did not.
I was seriously asking how you improve safety records, and I was merely defining what he had accomplished. But I mean- I guess that makes him presidential.

Once you get in the military, you will realize just how big a deal, I mean BIG, safety and security are. Actually is a big deal.
 
Once you get in the military, you will realize just how big a deal, I mean BIG, safety and security are. Actually is a big deal.

I understand that safety and security are important lol. Again- my question regarding safety and security was "How do you improve an unit's safety records?" The bronze medal I was speaking off isn't handed out because of this. It is handed out for: "Unit heroism lesser than that required of a Presidential Unit Citation or non-combat service which was outstanding when compared to other units or organizations performing similar service."
And there was no sarcasm in my response. I just don't see how an unit's heroism's truly reflects a single officer. I'd like this explained too.
 
In many ways, unitedstatesafa2013 I hope you are successful in your quest to attend a service academy. If that occurs, I urge you to have an open mind during your four-year leadership experience. For example, my read of your Barney Frank comment makes me think you suggest that people that have no military experience are in a better position to make decisions about military appropriations because they are not "biased." Mr. Frank's rationale, with respect, is not why it's good for the military to cut it's appropriation by 25%, but to what better purposes that money could be used. That is called "the ends justify the means"

But I'm really troubled about your characterization of Senator McCain's "leadership experience" over his military (including USNA) and government career in contrast to Secretary Clinton's (I'm still trying to figure out what other "government positions" she held to which you refer). You seem to address her "experience" by diminishing Senator McCain's. Would you say the same of Senator Jim Webb?
 
In many ways, unitedstatesafa2013 I hope you are successful in your quest to attend a service academy. If that occurs, I urge you to have an open mind during your four-year leadership experience. For example, my read of your Barney Frank comment makes me think you suggest that people that have no military experience are in a better position to make decisions about military appropriations because they are not "biased." Mr. Frank's rationale, with respect, is not why it's good for the military to cut it's appropriation by 25%, but to what better purposes that money could be used. That is called "the ends justify the means"

But I'm really troubled about your characterization of Senator McCain's "leadership experience" over his military (including USNA) and government career in contrast to Secretary Clinton's (I'm still trying to figure out what other "government positions" she held to which you refer). You seem to address her "experience" by diminishing Senator McCain's. Would you say the same of Senator Jim Webb?

That's funny how you mention that communist quote, I was just talking to my friend about how 2 + 2 = 5 haha. Anyway, you're right- he is looking for a better way to use the money. He's also known as a financial genius, and considering we are in a recession (not in a war where we must fund a lot of money into weapons that are not necessary*) we should be listening to him (I would say the same thing if he was a Republican, but it turns out he's gay and apparently that's a "sin") when it concerns diverting more money to more useful places. Again, call it Communism or Socialism, whatever suits you.

I also know it's contradictory to what I am getting myself into, but I am not wishing to attend the AFA for the sole reason of benefiting from the money and the benefits (although I can't complain because they are corrently very satisfactory) that military officers receive from the government. I do admire McCain for doing what he did in the service, but this does not convince me that he will make a good leader. (I remember saying that I also never supported Hillary Clinton, so I am in no way saying that she had more experience than him)- I was saying that:

1. Both Hillary and McCain were in the Senate. Yes, it's true.
2. Hillary's affiliation with Bill helped her. Yes, also true.
3. McCain's previous military service helped him. Very true.
4. I first responded to Luigi's claim that McCain being an USNA graduate and military officer, it immediately gave him more leadership experience than Hillary Clinton, or Wesley's supporter. (which by the way was a followup to nothing previously argued or mentioned.) (Also- this ties in with the "how a doctor doesn't have to be a good physician because he/she went to Johns Hopkins Medical School." This is also a broadly accepted misconception.

I wasn't trying to diminish his experience, I was trying to say that it also wasn't enough to convince me he would be a good president. Jim Webb seems to be more decorated than McCain...or McCain's unit at the time, whichever way you see it. But now that we are talking heavily about McCain, I will have to say that these things ticked me off:
1. He is very elderly.
2. He is a "maverick" with a "maverick" vice president nominee.
3. His vice-president nominee was Palin.
4. He has different ideals.
5. His temper, I don't mind.
6. His "views" in the Senate conflict his actions. (aka His pushing for a new supercarrier when Liaison (pork), but standing against it today).
7.If anything had happened to him while in office, we would have had Palin.
8. Some of his campaign followers and the blind accusations they made about Pres Obama. (this really disgusted me)
9. and probably other things that will come back to me later.
 
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