Midshipman in Naval Academy sex case not guilty

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by sheriff3, Mar 20, 2014.

  1. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2013
    Messages:
    1,000
    Likes Received:
    318
    Any idea what happens to these guys now? Are they still with the academy? If so is their military career wrecked before it even starts?
     
  2. gonavy14

    gonavy14 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    15
    The guy will likely still be kicked out for honor offenses resulting from making false statements during the trial. Who knows what will happen with the girl. Either way she doesn't deserve to stay at the Academy.
     
  3. osdad

    osdad Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    28
    I think she's a Firstie so they better decide quickly (not really something at which the Navy excels.)
     
  4. MedB

    MedB Parent

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    116
    Have not been following this case, so no flames please when I ask this question...

    I am inferring that because this male mid was found not guilty of the assault charge, then it's assumed the female mid must have been lieing... Therefore she should be disenrolled. Is that the general thought?
     
  5. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,508
    Likes Received:
    457
    I believe the press article said the male midshipman agreed to resign in lieu of the Academy pursuing the charges sent back to them.

    The fact that the male was not convicted does not necessarily mean the woman was lying. Criminal cases require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The trier may have had reasonable doubt for a variety of reasons. Also, juries (and/or judges) may not believe someone who is telling the truth or may believe someone who is in fact lying. The fact here is that the trier of fact was not convinced that the prosecution proved the defendant was guilty of the sexual assault charge beyond a reasonable doubt.
     
  6. bandad

    bandad Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    22
    I don't know all the details and I am not sure I understand the "she doesn't deserve to be there" line of thinking. If she was raped, without alcohol being a contributing factor, than it is pretty simple - she should stay in school and they should be kicked out. Of course it wasn't that simple and alcohol was a factor for all of the mids involved.

    If they were all drunk, which I believe they all were, than it is more complicated. After a lot of drinks, people can loose control and bad things can happen. I think the logic in this case is basically they were all guilty. I sort of understand that line of thinking but I cannot make the leap to they were all guilty when we are talking about sexual assault. They were all certainly guilty of underage drinking and/or not drinking responsibly, having an unauthorized party in a house of the premises, and a lot of folks making bad decisions (beyond the 4 mids directly involved).

    I am curious as to why folks think that she should be kicked out. Also, why is the female mid being ostracized by the brigade?

    Now there may be more to the story that I am missing...
     
  7. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    I don't know how it is at Navy, but my cadets days at West Point, those offenses mentioned above, you forget to include "sexual activities," would have gotten cadets separated.
     
  8. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
  9. JMC0759

    JMC0759 S-USMMA '12 D-USAFA '15

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    21
    As others have stated just because there was not a conviction doesn't mean the victim was lying. And other than using bad judgement by using alcohol I don't see why you say she does not belong there. She is, after all is said, a victim.

    And from a law enforcement perspective - sexual assaults are hard cases to prove. There was probably no physical evidence and you have to rely on your victim to learn what happened. Using alcohol to the point she can't remember did not help her case.
     
  10. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,089
    Likes Received:
    2,445
    The Mids could still face administrative punishment which could result in separation. These charges can range from underage drinking (not 100% positive but I think these guys were all of age) to the catch all of conduct unbecoming. There are several catch all charges like conduct unbecoming that they can use. It appears the Mids have already agreed to resign and not face this part of the process. All of these Mids consumed large amounts of alcohol and made very poor decisions... That is the bottom line. Drinking in excess in of itself is not illegal, nor is sex, but with all the decisions made that night they demonstrated a lack of judgement that shows they are unfit to be military officers.

    No service military system works quickly just like the civilian world. That goes for the active duty world also. You are right, she should not be facing backlash. When I was a Mid we had a few similar incidences. All of them involved female Mids who had less than stellar reputations, involved he said said situations and had lots of gray areas. I have no idea about this young lady, but I hope she is getting the counseling she needs and this can server as a wake up for all young men and women regarding excess alcohol, making good decisions, and watching out for their buddies.
     
  11. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    Are you saying that all the mids that were drinking other than her are unfit to be military officers, or does her drinking indicate that she is also unfit to be a military officer?
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  12. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    It also doesn't mean that she was telling the truth or that the males were lying.
    Other than bad judgement by using alcohol and having sex... which is the same thing the males supposedly did.
    Perhaps....but not proven.
     
  13. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,089
    Likes Received:
    2,445
    No. The Accused male Mids. Heck could there have been more there that night we do not know about who served underage attendees, frat, etc but that is not a part of the prosecution for this case.

    The second question is a hard one in these cases and can debated for hours and is an extreme gray area in my opinion. Can't remember all the details of the case.... But I do not think any male Mids were found guilty during any of the hearings of assault? Could be wrong. Doesn't mean she was not assaulted but it just can't be proven in court. She is still a victim in the way the process plays out. Because of that, female Mids in similar cases have very rarely been thrown out for poor decision making. With the current state of military sexual assaults and so much press and Congressional attention, can you imagine the media if USNA decides to have her face admin charges for conduct unbecoming or similar charges? Also,what does the rest of her USNA academic, conduct, performance, honor transcript look like? I think this goes for anyone who has gotten in trouble, especially weeks before graduation. Was she a solid, high performing Mid prior to this event? I have no idea. It's a bad situation for all involved.
     
  14. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    OK...so while drinking in excess in of itself is not illegal, nor is sex, only the decisions by the male mids demonstrated a lack of judgement that shows they are unfit to be military officers. Why?
    Well....that seems fair and reasonable. Thanks.
     
  15. MedB

    MedB Parent

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Messages:
    593
    Likes Received:
    116
    Thanks USNA, exactly the point of my question.
     
  16. JMC0759

    JMC0759 S-USMMA '12 D-USAFA '15

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2008
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    21
    And that is the inherent problem with trying to prove a sexual assault case. Who you believe is telling the truth.....
     
  17. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    Doesn't seem like much of a problem. Just punish the males whether they are proven guilty or not and assume the female is a victim.

    If males and females are drinking and having sex, assume the females are not responsible for their actions and the males are. Very simple.
     
  18. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,508
    Likes Received:
    457
    Speaking generally . . . not about the facts of this particular matter . . . Rape/sexual assault is largely based on whether the alleged victim consented.

    Being intoxicated is not a defense to a criminal act, so whether the alleged perpetrator was drunk is largely irrelevant to that person's guilt. When the person who was allegedly assaulted was intoxicated, it is more difficult for the trier of fact to determine whether that person consented and thus more difficult to determine if a crime was committed.

    In the eyes of the law, both are responsible for their actions regardless of whether they are intoxicated. However, the victim's level of intoxication is relevant only as to her (or his) ability to consent and to remember the event, including whether she consented. The fact that she was too drunk to consent does not give someone the right to "assume" consent. The perpetrator's level of intoxication is irrelevant in terms of guilt if the trier of fact determines the victim did not consent.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014
  19. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    Right back to "Who you believe is telling the truth . . . "
     
  20. gonavy14

    gonavy14 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2014
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    15
    I agree that just because Tate was found not guilty does not mean the girl was lying. I didn't mean to say that she should be kicked out for lying. We don't know if she lied or not. I meant to say that she doesn't deserve to graduate due to her poor decision making and conduct unbecoming. Remember that if she graduates she could be an officer in charge of you or someone you know. Do you really want the person in charge of you to go out at night and get so drunk that she doesn't remember anything about what happened the next day?
     

Share This Page