Military Status while attending USNA

Back on the original topic...

Mids are confused too - at least as far as being recognized in public goes. "Thank you for your service." gets a polite response with the thought "but I haven't done anything to earn your thanks...yet." left unsaid.
 
Not so. They've volunteered and are in training to enter into harm's way. Seems to me they require a major briefing that service includes preparing to serve. And more notably, lead. Part of their preparation is in recognizing and embracing the respect and honor earned and merited by that uniform they have been called to wear.They are a symbol appreciated among free citizens benefitting from the price paid by those who have worn and now wear those uniforms.

These young men and women are indeed every bit service men and service women.
 
I have to agree with both WhistlePig AND osdad. Are they serving? They surely are in my opinion. Are they confused about that? My DS sure is whenever he hears that 'thanks for serving'. What really amazes me is how often he hears that. I particularly noticed it while we were all vacationing in Key West 2 Christmases ago. Due to his haircut and perhaps his incredible physique, he was thanked a few times a day for his service. He was gracious about it and also went on to explain his situation, virtually denying he was serving - at which point folks would thank him again. Having been a young adult myself during and after Viet Nam I was amazed at the recognition he received from folks who could have simply ignored him. The country surely is in a different place today than when I was young.
 
I've always been mixed on it. Yes, they are serving, but up until the graduate, it's a free ride with a uniform. Then they pay it back. Being willing to volunteer is not the same as serving, BUT I think it is worth acknowledging.

Like most cadets and midshipmen, I've had to do my share of forced replies. Eventually you just say "your welcome."

They're thanking your uniform, and what you represent, not always you as an individual.

It also varies across the country. Some places have just moved on. Some are still vocal.

It doesn't stop after you graduate, you just feel less underserving.
 
Agree with WP and LITS. It is a mixed blessing but they do pay it back as they say "one nickel at a time". Liked seeing Marines stand tall as we walked to the parade ground last Friday with "Good Morning Mam". DD always hated someone thanking her for her service while at the Academy. Like it was hard to walk from Brancroft to class in 1/2" snow. "Your Welcome" is probably the best reply.
 
I always find it ridiculous and disingenuous when appointments are treated as scholarships. Scholarships may have precursive requirements, but they require no paybacks. As many others have rightly noted, a SA education is not free. And the "get out of jail" with no repayment only remains for 2 years, as we know.

Both sides of this card can be, and as we see are, debated, altho it's purely an an academic exercise.

As noted, I've come down on the side that this is far more in-service with a BS degree being required in order to go on fully active duty vs. it's a free college education requiring 5-8 years of employment to pay back the scholarship and college-with-uniforms. One of the differentiating points is the fundamental assumption that all inducted are on queue to learn and lead in specific lines of national service. While there are "outs" they are not intended options. They are with rare exceptions, a result of some sort of personal or institutional failure, and are seen as undesirable, unintended losses, not merely attrition. Furthermore, the fact that none can "transfer" in further bolsters my point. Lastly, the fact that with rare exception, when one leaves, returning is rarely a possibility. They are effectively finished as military service men and women.

Mids experiencing discomfort in receiving the gratitude of a grateful citizenry simply fail to recognize why they wear a uniform in public. Back when most men did, this wasn't a question like today when much of today's culture has not a clue about military service and its unique status in our society. And it's not like serving in the Peace Corps or AmeriCorps or many other avenues of worthy service to others.
 
following this thread,

Just out of curiosity, for those attending USNA when are uniforms to be worn both on/and off the campus? For those who have graduated and are serving when are uniforms to be/not to be worn?
 
Whistle Pig said:
I always find it ridiculous and disingenuous when appointments are treated as scholarships. Scholarships may have precursive requirements, but they require no paybacks. As many others have rightly noted, a SA education is not free. And the "get out of jail" with no repayment only remains for 2 years, as we know.
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Perhaps you should suggest to Navy, Army and AF that they rename their ROTC scholarships to something other than scholarships. Their "get out of jail" card only lasts 1 year.
 
That's a totally different gig. Fully different missions altho they seem similar.But your point's not lost. As noted, earlier, we can split all the hairs we want and do here. Makes not a lick of diff. As my advising prof always waxed, "ya gotta stand somewhere to look at anything." I know where I stand, and it's often lonely, the proverbial "overlook overlooked" or " dirt road not taken." And it's made all the difference.
 
Uniforms are required first two years at USNA for on Campus and off You are a tourist attraction. After 2nd class and 1st and after graduation it is Uniform of the Day for graduates. Correct me if I am wrong but Marines may not wear fatigues off base. Good call.
 
I completely agree with LITS and packer.

MIDN aren't CURRENTLY working to keep this country safe. They are LEARNING how to lead so they can keep this country safe in the FUTURE. I agree with LITS, that their decision to EVENTUALLY be a leader of Sailors and Marines should be recognized, but I wouldn't consider this as "serving." I felt that way when I was a MIDN and will always feel that way.

My definition of service (not considering those who have served) is ACTIVELY engaged in or supporting military operations (which, by the way, isn't just limited to military personnel). MIDN don't fit that definition.
 
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I never could understand why so many parents of midshipmen are reticent to admit that their child is getting a FREE education.

Here's the definition of a free education in my book: If you're not borrowing money to pay for college and you're not writing checks to the college for tuition, room & board, books and a meal plan - your kid is on a "scholarship"!

In fact, it's more than free. They're getting paid to get a college degree!

Yes, I know they have a military obligation after they graduate. That's called a job! Is it a dangerous job? Sure - sometimes. But firemen, police officers and, heck, some social workers also have dangerous jobs. They're still called jobs.

I wonder how many USNA graduates would voluntarily forego their military obligation upon graduation? My guess is that they embrace that "obligation"! I'll bet there are many college graduates who would happily serve that obligation, even without a scholarship.

Let's face it - it's a tremendous deal. Technically, I guess, it's not a "scholarship". That's because it's better than a scholarship!

I'm not shy about telling people what a great deal it is. My opinion is this, "If it sounds too good to be true - then apply!" Good luck with that. That's when they find out that those who get that "scholarship" actually earned it.
 
With two others in tuition schools I agree with Memphis9489.:thumb: Other Schools were at least 55K a year for DD. It is FREE with monthly stipend and you can't get any better than that.
 
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usnabgo08 said:
My definition of service (not considering those who have served) is ACTIVELY engaged in or supporting military operations (which, by the way, isn't just limited to military personnel). MIDN don't fit that definition.
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Some did.

Which is why only one service academy flies a battle standard, having lost 142 students during WWII while actively supporting military operations, and remains the only academy to deploy their members during wartime.

Despite being the only service academy that is not a military academy.

Well done, KP.
 
Nor a ward of the Department of Defense.

And thus as an entity of Homeland Security, always sucking on the hind teat of government funding, with more pragmatic evidence of this poor-sister standing in a fleet of too many antiquated, worn ships. A sad and unfortunate scenario, for sure.:thumbdown:
 
Whistle Pig said:
Nor a ward of the Department of Defense.

And thus as an entity of Homeland Security, always sucking on the hind teat of government funding, with more pragmatic evidence of this poor-sister standing in a fleet of too many antiquated, worn ships. A sad and unfortunate scenario, for sure.:thumbdown:
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:confused:

Obviously you know nothing about the USMMA, it's position under the Dept of Transportation (not DHS), nor it's role in serving the commerce of the USA.

In other words - why would you post such meaningless incorrect drivel?
 
Which is why only one service academy flies a battle standard, having lost 142 students during WWII while actively supporting military operations, and remains the only academy to deploy their members during wartime.
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Can you explain this? Not sure what the definition of this deployment is -- don't they go out and train on merchants as part of their experience? If that is the case, I wouldn't consider that service. Yes, they are away for a longer period than MIDN or cadets during their summer experiences (in total), but the purpose of them on merchants is to gain experience (as part of their USMMA education). I don't have a great background on USMMA, so I might be way off.
 
usnabgo08 said:
Can you explain this? Not sure what the definition of this deployment is -- don't they go out and train on merchants as part of their experience? If that is the case, I wouldn't consider that service. Yes, they are away for a longer period than MIDN or cadets during their summer experiences (in total), but the purpose of them on merchants is to gain experience (as part of their USMMA education). I don't have a great background on USMMA, so I might be way off.
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During WW2 142 USMMA Mids were killed while serving on merchant ships that were running much needed supplies to our troops in the European Theater. These ships were often in huge "convoys" running accross the pond so that at least a few of them made it through the screen of German U-Boat attacks. Here is one example of the heroism shown by a member of the 142:

Edwin Joseph O'Hara
Engine Cadet-Midshipman on SS Stephen Hopkins 09/27/42

For extraordinary heroism under unusual hazards.

Two enemy surface raiders suddenly appeared out of the morning mist to attack the small merchantman upon which he was serving. Heavy guns of one raider pounded his ship, and machine guns from the other, sprayed her decks for one-half hour at close quarters. The heroic gun crew of O'Hara's ship exchanged shot for shot with the enemy, placing thirty-five shells into the waterline of one of the raiders until its crew was forced to abandon their sinking ship. The gun commander was mortally wounded early in the action, and all of the gun crew were killed or wounded when an enemy shell exploded the magazine of their gun.

At the explosion, O'Hara ran aft and single-handedly served and fired the damaged gun with five live shells remaining in the ready box, scoring direct hits near the waterline of the second raider. O'Hara was mortally wounded in this action. With boilers blown up, engines destroyed, masts shot away, and ablaze from stem to stern, the gallant merchantman finally went under carrying O'Hara and several of his fighting shipmates with her.

The magnificent courage of this young cadet constitutes a degree of heroism which will be an enduring inspiration to seamen of the United States Merchant Marine everywhere.

For the President
Admiral Emory Scott Land
 
Memphis9489 said:
I never could understand why so many parents of midshipmen are reticent to admit that their child is getting a FREE education.

Here's the definition of a free education in my book: If you're not borrowing money to pay for college and you're not writing checks to the college for tuition, room & board, books and a meal plan - your kid is on a "scholarship"!

In fact, it's more than free. They're getting paid to get a college degree!

Yes, I know they have a military obligation after they graduate. That's called a job! Is it a dangerous job? Sure - sometimes. But firemen, police officers and, heck, some social workers also have dangerous jobs. They're still called jobs.

I wonder how many USNA graduates would voluntarily forego their military obligation upon graduation? My guess is that they embrace that "obligation"! I'll bet there are many college graduates who would happily serve that obligation, even without a scholarship.

Let's face it - it's a tremendous deal. Technically, I guess, it's not a "scholarship". That's because it's better than a scholarship!

I'm not shy about telling people what a great deal it is. My opinion is this, "If it sounds too good to be true - then apply!" Good luck with that. That's when they find out that those who get that "scholarship" actually earned it.
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During the application process I often played devils advocate with my son and was regularly pointing out that it wasn't really free. I was trying to make him think about this from all of the angles. He finally had enough and told me to knock it off as because as far as he was concerned an appointment meant a free education because he was going to serve one way or another anyway. That ended my pestering on the subject!
 
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