minority designation

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by dms17, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. dms17

    dms17 New Member

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    Hello out there, My DS was advised by someone at school to check the American Indian/Alaskan Native box in addition to white for race on his ROTC scholarship application. He is 1/16 Native American but can't prove it. I am concerned that this issue could come back to haunt him in the future if he is awarded a scholarship. His application has not met a review board yet so it may be possible to change it. Does anyone have any insight into this issue? I have tried searching for information on the web to no avail. Thanks so much if anyone can help.
     
  2. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    My advice: If you cannot prove it do not put it on the application.

    I am 25% Native American so that would make my kids 1/8. I would love to be able to prove it for the purposes of college aid but back in 1966 in Arizona my mom was discouraged from putting that info on a birth certificate. Different times back then for sure.
     
  3. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Look into genetic testing. There are markers in DNA which can indicate Native American ancestry, possibly even percentage. I wouldn't advise making a claim based solely on family lore.
     
  4. Kelsi

    Kelsi Class of 2019

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    Does being Native American really help?

    I'm Native American and carry a CDIB card that proves it. I marked Native American on my ROTC scholarship and uploaded the card with my social security card.

    How much do you all think that this would help? Is there other avenues out there for Native American scholarships?
     
  5. SpadGuy

    SpadGuy Member

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    the current administration very big on diversity and minority status.....Any PR will help them

     
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  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Which ROTC scholarship are you looking at? What are your SAT/ACT scores?

    Do I think it helps? Yes, No, Maybe!

    I am not sure because the scholarships are suppose to be merit based. For example, at least for AFROTC 60% of the score is PAR (prior academic record). Another specific percentage is the PFA. I can see that the interview portion can include the diversity aspect, but that is a very small percentage when compared to straight numbers. SAT, cgpa, PFA are all quantative. Black and white. Interview is subjective. Additionally, ECs will play into the score.
    ~ In other words, it may help, but I don't see it like URM at colleges where they can give you a true edge. URMS at many colleges can be a hook. For ROTC the % for being a URM is very small. They don't have to, or at least as far as I know are tied to diversity from a legal perspective, since it is merit. Not a loan, not a grant.

    Additionally, if you look at it from an equal opportunity aspect or diversity, I am not sure how it helps to give an edge. There is the freebie year. If they adhere to that than it would be hard for them to predict via ROTC because they cannot predict if they will stay in the program or commission out of the program. Plus, a very small % of cadets are on scholarship. Statistically, if memory serves me correctly, 16-18% of those that apply will receive a scholarship. There are many that join even as sophomores and eventually commission.
    ~ Comes back to the point how the scholarship and commissioning are two different aspects/issues from a diversity POV.

    I don't want anyone to assume that I am against diversity or that I have any insight. I am not. I believe it should exist. I am just looking at how the process works, be it PAR or the freebie year.
    ~ What if they try to have at all times 20% URM. Yet 50% of scholarship recipients drop after the freebie year. Does that mean next year to keep the 20% they raise the % offered to URM/diversity? Do that for several years, and it could mean the majority of scholarships are really no longer merit based.
    ~~ No flaming, I believe that statistically those that leave have no tie to this aspect,just saying it can impact if scholarships are offered based on diversity.
    ~~~ How can they plan this? OCS, heck yes. ROTC, impo, NO!

    I can seeing it being an edge from what I call the push/pull method. Some ROTC units sit on the admissions board and they may help from that aspect. Some don't. I can see it giving an edge if you are competitive for a scholarship, but I can't see it if every college on your list is a high reach.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Go to Barnes and Noble....they have many books on scholarships for unique backgrounds or to Google.
    ~ IE some state universities have scholarships. Some philanthropic organizations have scholarships.
    ~~ Very few people know that the Knights of Columbus offer scholarships. Nor do many people know that if you live near a military base/post the Officers Spouses Club offer scholarship. They are out there if you search.
    Many colleges offer scholarships/grants. You need to do the research
     
  8. Kelsi

    Kelsi Class of 2019

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    In looking at Army ROTC. I have a 3.7 Weighted GPA. I've taken 15 hours of college courses in highschool and several AP classes. My ACT is a 26. I have several volunteer hours, I'm President of my Schools National Honor Society and Ive been a class officer every year. I've bee accepted to every school I've applied and I've narrowed my choices down to Arkansas, Baylor or Texas A&M on where I want to go.
     
  9. Kelsi

    Kelsi Class of 2019

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    I also receive a Nomination to West Point but withdrew my application.
     
  10. Iwanttobeanofficer2019

    Iwanttobeanofficer2019 Member

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    Texas A&M has the best rotc in the country.
    Go there because they are a senior military college.
    There are only 6 in the nation. They have contributed as much if not more than the service academies to the military officer world.
    They were recognized in world war 2 for their contributions and the government gave them the honorary rank of general for their mascot reville. She is the only General ever in Rotc. I'm not talking about cadet brigadier generals either, I'm saying she's a General of the Corps of Cadets.

    I'll say it again. Go to Texas A&M.
    I'm going there if the USNA, USAFA, or USMMA doesn't work out. They're just as good . :)
     
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  11. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    While I applaud your enthusiasm and support for A&M, please know that your opinion of them is just that - an opinion. All of the SMCs have fine ROTC departments, as do most universities. They are all a path to the same destination.
     
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  12. Iwanttobeanofficer2019

    Iwanttobeanofficer2019 Member

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    I not only hold A&M in high esteem, I hold all of the senior military colleges to the same caliber. These include THE CITADEL, NORWICH, VIRGINIA TECH, VIRGINIA MILITARY INSTITUTE, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH GEORGIA, AND TEXAS A&M.

    Yes the Rotcs around the nation are all the same in pursuing the rank of an O-1.
    BUT...
    at a SMC-
    You are required to wear the uniform everyday, eat with your fellow cadets, sleep with your fellow cadets, study with your fellow cadets, and etc... At a senior military college you are receiving a near equivalent experience compared to that of a service academy life style. Although some cadets aren't contracted, they still have to do everything like a SA attendee.

    Regular Rotc
    With an ROTC in a regular non senior military college. Its only a class not a lifestyle. You attend ROTC class maybe 2 times a week and you so your pt the same amount. You wear the uniform once a week.

    Another reason I weighed in so heavily for Texas A&M is because your final choices tamu baylor and Arkansas. Tamu offers all branches of service and they are a senior military college. They consistently are ranked amongst the best military institutes in the nation, not baylor and arkansas, so I was only looking out for your best interests. If I didn't live in Texas and lived in Virginia, then I'd attend VMI or VT. I have no preference as long as it's a SMC, but it is in my best interests to stay home if I do not receive an appt to a S.A.

    This is not retalitation, it is just a justification. Thank you.
     
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  13. afrotc16

    afrotc16 Member

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    ROTC at ANY university is a lifestyle. Obviously, you really don't have any experience with ROTC at normal university (or even at a SMC, for that matter). I'm in uniform 3-4 days a week, doing work pertaining to ROTC probably 20-30 hours a week (minimum). I live with my fellow cadets (most cadets do), eat, sleep, study, you name it. SMCs are NOT better than any other ROTC program just because they are SMCs! And they don't necessarily turn out better officers than other ROTC programs.

    Go ahead and stay home if other schools aren't good enough for you, but normal ROTC programs are where cadets can attend almost ANY school, get a GREAT education (the purpose of college, anyway!), AND eventually commission as an officer. They require just as much perseverance and dedication as any SMC, and maybe even more because of the opportunity of normal college life to get you sidetracked. Please don't continue this elitist SMC thought throughout ROTC, because I can guarantee you that at any summer training program you go to, the other cadets hate cocky SMC cadets.

    @Kelsi - If you really want a SMC, then by all means, go ahead to Texas A&M. But, just my advice, look at the academic programs and ROTC programs at all the schools and pick the one that is best for you. You'll probably have a great experience, meet great people and become a great officer at any of those three schools.
     
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  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 afrotc16.

    Our DS went to a traditional college and believe it or not his unit won twice in a span of four years the best
    large detachment in the nation.

    He too spent 20-30 hours a week doing ROTC besides LLAB and PT due to the positions he held within the unit. Plus he was involved in Arnie Air Society which took up 10+ hours. Most of the cadets would also hang out in the cadet lounge between classes. He was also like afrotc16, his roommates after his freshmen year were AFROTC cadets.

    He went to UPT at Laughlin and several of his classmates that graduated prior or after he did were also at Laughlin, which gave them an automatic social circle and mentors in the ADAF. When he got married last May, two of his groomsmen were in his det.

    The point is unless your true reason of going to an SMC is to live a lifestyle closely resembling an SA it would be wrong to assume that going to a traditional ROTC unit means just doing a few hours as a cadet and the rest of the time you live a traditional college student life.
    ~ freshmen year especially fall semester maybe, but as you progress it changes. I recall our DS having a conversation about this with us when he became a junior. Many of his friends that were not ROTC had yet to start thinking about life after graduation, whereas, he and his ROTC peers were already facing life changing boards. As an AFROTC cadet that starts their sophomore year, during their junior year, if they want to fly, they fight for a slot. Their senior year it is all about career assignments and report dates.
    ~~ Go to a large university where FB and BBall is popular among students, it is even more apparent because many ROTC cadets will pass on attending the games due to the fact they have to be up at Odark thirty for PT. They don't get it, which is why the bond with other cadets becomes stronger.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Just curious why are you applying to USMMA?

    I am going to assume you want to fly and know that USMMA does commission into the Navy and AF. However, that being said, I would say investigate USMMA if my assumption is correct. It is not a guarantee, or at least from what I have read on this site.
    ~ Research what life will be like for those four years while at KP.

    I will say one thing, SMCs are great at accomplishing their mission, producing great officers. However, let's also remember that the future of the military is changing. One of the best Joint Chiefs was not an SMC grad....Colin Powell.

    A few other notables currently serving are:
    Admiral Winnefeld...Vice Chair JCS....graduate of Georgia Tech
    Gen. Dunford...Commandant of the Marine Corps....graduate of St. Michaels College

    Granted there are a couple at this level that are SMC grads, but please remember they got to their position in part on their drive and desire....something in my opinion an SMC, SA or ROTC cannot create. It is something they have in them or they don't.
     
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I too must say +1 to afrotc16. DS does PT 5 days a week (2 with his unit and 3 with buddies). DS is doing PT with buddies Friday evenings when everyone else is out drinking. A ROTC billet can easily suck 20 hours out of your week. This semester DS is holding 2 billets which I expect will take him 20 hours again (at least). ROTC programs at non-SMC schools are no picnic either but they do look different from programs at SMCs.
     
  17. Iwanttobeanofficer2019

    Iwanttobeanofficer2019 Member

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    I was just going by information that my JROTC instructor said and what other ROTC instructors said that was the biggest difference between a SMC and a Regular Rotc.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    So true!

    Look, the fact is at an SMC freshmen year is not fun compared to a traditional college with a ROTC program.

    I do not know the attrition rate at an SMC compared to a traditional college rOTC, but I do believe it is a personal decision.

    My DS was like Kelsi, and pulled his packet from USAFA (he had Pres. And all 3 MOC nominations). He is 2nd generation AF. Born into the AF to an F15E WSO that jumped with the 82nd. We were very mean parents. He had to run in the a.m. before school, make his bed and sit at attention at dinner. While his siblings dranksoda or ice tea, he drink milk, and had to pour it without looking down...plus recited the lunch menu for the next three days and 3 current events.
    ~ Just to show him the light side of things.
    ~~ If his room was not to my standards, I tossed it while he was at school.

    DS pulled his package because he WANTED to be a kid while keeping his toes in. He wanted to see life The college he opted to attend had his dream major.
     
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  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think we all get your position, and speaking for myself, I respect it, BUT every cadet and candidate is unique. There is no broad brush stroke that can be applied when you go AD.

    What is good for you, may not be true for someone else.
    Now back on topic, because I am sure they are looking for some financial support for college, be it ROTC or Native American heritage.
    Contact the admission department directly that you are applying to for matriculation.

    As an ROTC cadet, the minority of cadets are on scholarship. My DS was given many merit scholarships. One college was free ride and he could have walked on as a ROTC cadet because that is the system to ROTC.

    I don't know why the OP pulled their package for WP, but they did. I have no doubt they will be a great officer regardless if they commission via an SMC, ROTC or OCS.

    FYI, as an AROTC candidate there is a big reason why I would go to an SMC....caveat from what I have learned on this site via other posters....The Army does not guarantee AD unless your commissioning source is USMA or an SMC. AF and Navy do guarantee AD for every commissioning source...SA, SMC, Traditional ROTC or OCS.

    Something to think about Kelsi. Do you want to go AD or would you rather Guard/Reserve for the Army.
    ~ I maybe wrong, but I would double check my assumption if your goal is to go AD.
     
  20. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    You think your DS had it tough?

     

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