Misdemeanor

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by robby113, Dec 28, 2011.

  1. robby113

    robby113 New Member

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    Someone I know was arrested for underage drinking. This person was a first time offender, and this is the only offense on their record. I think the person said that they would be given a deferred prosecution which basically means that as long as they complete the requirements, pay their fine, & keep their nose clean the misdemeanor will be dropped. This person has applied to all the service academies & has received a nomination to USMA, USNA, & USAFA. Will the academies find out about this and if so will they let the person in? Im simply just trying to help my friend because they are very worried, so any advice would be much appreciated.
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    They will most likely find out.

    Bad move.
     
  3. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Not reporting it up front...

    Worse move.
     
  4. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Probably would have a smart move to report it.

    In all honestly if the court decides to drop it the only way I could see the SAs knowing would be if you provided the court docket. I had a dropped misdemeanor (traffic/driving related) and the only way ROTC found out was when I handed them the docket that said the charge was dropped after I paid the fine, took a class etc. Keep in mind this was prior to me being contracted and it had no effect on me continuing with the process. I am not 100% sure about SAs but being upfront and honest is always a step in the right direction.
     
  5. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Your friend will have to submit a police records check in the spring after receiving an appointment. The police will then send the form into the SA with the indication that your friend was arrested, even though the misdemeanor was dropped. However, the police will not release the details of the incident because your friend was presumably a minor. All they will report was that an arrest was made and something to the effect "Record discloses arrest, but no further information may be provided because of juvenile protection laws." The SA will likely then look to your friend and ask, "Gee, what's this arrest all about and why was it not reported?"

    Your friend absolutely needs to disclose this for at least the following reasons:

    1. It's the right thing to do. Your friend should not start off on the wrong foot.

    2. The information will be disclosed anyway when your friend has to submit the records check, so if it really is going to be a problem in terms of the SAs, he or she would want to know now rather than in May 2012 when his/her other options are no longer available.
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I had a classmate who got through 6 weeks of Swab Summer. At some point CGA found out he had a legal issue, which he did not report. Kicked out when he got back from EAGLE before the school year started.
     
  7. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    You will definitely want to report it, because it will be brought up in the future.

    Our son is a 2011 USAFA grad and during his first night of Christmas break back home during his Doolie year he was pulled over by the local police for a mechanical defect on our vehicle. During the traffic stop the officer noticed that our son's drivers license had expired on his birthday a few months prior. Our son explained that Wisconsin law states that the drivers license of a Wisconsin resident military member stationed outside the state of Wisconsin does not expire until 90 days after that member returns to Wisconsin permamently. The officer didn't know of the statute and issued a ticket anyway. Son returned to USAFA after break and reported it to his command. He soon after received a summons for a court date back in Wisconsin. Son then contacted the court, explained the statute (with reference to the statute number) and mailed a letter to them with the information. The charge was dropped with an apology from the judge and the court.

    Well, in every one of his security clearance interviews since then, this ticket has been brought up by the interviewing agent. Even though the charges were incorrect from the beginning and everything was dropped, it still appears on every one of his clearance reports.

    So, my advice is to report any contact with the law, no matter how small it may seem. It will be found during any reviews of your record for security clearances in the future.

    Stealth_81
     
  8. pennak

    pennak Member

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    this is a no brainer. You must disclose, up front and voluntarily.
     
  9. Packer

    Packer Member

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    You are getting good advice here. I would take it.
     
  10. robby113

    robby113 New Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it and I know my friend will too. I have one more question, but should my friend still contact all the academies even though this will be placed on his juvenile record? My friend was 17 when this happened, and he was explaining how once he turns a certain age his juvenile record will be shredded. So should he still contact the academies?
     
  11. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    As an ALO and USAF officer, I would say he should report it.

    As a "normal person" my ethics tell me to report it.

    His thoughts? I don't know...if he knows 100% for certain that when he turns 18 that this will disappear, be expunged, and that there will be NO record anywhere on this big-blue-marble known as earth for ANY investigating agency to find...then I suppose its up to him and his moral convictions.

    Personally, I think the advice above has been 100% spot-on! :thumb:

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  12. JMC0759

    JMC0759 S-USMMA '12 D-USAFA '15

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    What state does your friend live in? Is he sure that he is a juvenile at 17? You can been arrested for underage drinking and still be considered an adult.
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Why doesn't your friend so some initiative and ask his own questions?
     
  14. pennak

    pennak Member

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    Absolutely yes, he should contact the academies and any rotc unit to which he has applied. He should disclose completely the charge and the disposition of the charge with any documentation of both and make clear that he has learned his lesson. You have got to understand, these things almost never disappear completely. If he does not disclose and the academies or the rotc unit find out about it later, e.g., when they do a background investigation on him (and they will), then it is treated as a deliberate lie and the odds are very good that he will be expelled, as he should be IMHO. If he discloses completely and immediately, he will at least be treated with some consideration of the fact he disclosed. Again. A no-brainer.
     
  15. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    pennak is absolutely correct. Expungement means removal from public access (i.e., hidden from non-government employers, landlords, nosey neighbors, etc.), but the actual record entry of arrest is still maintained and is available confidentially for use by law enforcement, FBI background checks, etc. It can also be used against your friend if he or she commits another crime. The computer entry of arrest will never disappear in most jurisdictions, and officials are required to report that there is an entry but won't disclose what the entry is to the Service Academy (hmmmmm . . . how does your friend respond to the question "Hey, can you stop by my office and explain what this is all about???").

    Each jurisdiction has different law. Here's an example from Louisiana: http://expungement.uslegal.com/expungement-of-criminal-records/louisiana-expungement-law/

    California appears to have the same rules: http://www.lieberlaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1793340.html

    Disclaimer: The foregoing is NOT legal advice!!!
     
  16. JMC0759

    JMC0759 S-USMMA '12 D-USAFA '15

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    Exactly right. The dropping of charges will not remove a criminal history. The arrest information, including the fingerprint analysis is forwarded to the FBI. THAT will follow your friend around forever if the record is not expunged. If he was truly a juvenile he needs to make sure that his juvenile record is sealed by the court.

    As stated by everybody on this thread - honesty is the best policy.
     
  17. pennak

    pennak Member

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    Note as well that federal law will trump any non-disclosure policy of a state. See 5 U.S.C.A. § 9101. For example, the Office of Personnel Management (federal government) got a permanent injunction against the State of California when California refused to release the complete criminal history record information to OPM investigators. See U.S. v. California
    , 2007 WL 3341670 E.D.Cal.,2007

    Section 9101 provides that "pon request by the head of a covered agency, criminal justice agencies shall make available criminal history record information regarding individuals under investigation by that covered agency for the purpose of determining eligibility for any of the following:

    (A) Access to classified information.

    (B) Assignment to or retention in sensitive national security duties.

    (C) Acceptance or retention in the armed forces.

    (D) Appointment, retention, or assignment to a position of public trust or a critical or sensitive position while either employed by the Government or performing a Government contract.
     
  18. robby113

    robby113 New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it
     
  19. Dixieland

    Dixieland Member

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    After you read all of these posts to your friend and he realizes that he is going to have to come clean, please remind him of this old maxim: Your actions have consequences.
     
  20. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Im guessing "the friend" is the one asking the question.
     

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