Discussion in 'Nominations' started by dpt135, Oct 11, 2010.
When an MOC gives you a nomination is it for a specific SA or is it good for any academy?
It is for a specific academy, but s/he can give you a nom to more than one academy
I only have two choices and one is way above the other. Do I scrap choice #2 and go for it all on choice #1? What if they want to give a nom to choice #2 and not #1? Should you just be grateful for any nomination?
There isn't one person here that can answer that question for you. If they try, they are unintentionally doing you a disservice.
Only you can decide if your 2nd choice academy is something you want to do or not. My son, like some others, was hell bent on the Air Force Academy. He didn't even want to be TEMPTED by an offer for another academy. So, he DIDN'T APPLY to anything except the air force academy. He figured that if he didn't get accepted, he'd try for OTS. (He like to do things 100%, so "Part Time Cadet and Part Time Student (ROTC) wasn't something he wanted to do). Luckily for him, it all worked out and he received his appointment.
But there are some that simply want to serve. For whatever reason, they are happy to serve any branch of the military, receive an education from any of the academies, and they applied to all of them. Again, this has to be YOUR decision. There is no right/wrong answer. What does matter, is that is doesn't matter what my son did, or Fencermom's kids did, or what Ramius and Hornet did, or what any of this year's applicants are doing. It only matters what you WANT to do.
Sorry that this isn't the advice you are looking for, but it's the right advice. If you really don't care what branch of the military you serve, then the choice is pretty easy. Apply to all, get nominations for as many as possible, hope for an appointment, and if you receive more than one appointment, enjoy picking. If what branch of the service does matter to you that you serve in, then you have to decide if another branch would be acceptable for your goals, aspirations, and your willingness to serve. Good luck to you. mike....
Our DS's friend was in your predicament 3 yrs ago. He wanted one SA way more than the other, and only put 2 on his list. He got the one he didn't want. The irony was the MOC did principal noms. The person that got his dream SA, wanted his nom. They called the MOC and the MOC switched the two, both of them are now at the SA they wanted in the 1st place.
Not saying it is common for that to happen, but it does happen.
Also, I know right now you have the "dream" SA in your mind, but it is amazing how some candidates also change their mind along the way.
Additionally, I would assume you are applying to all 3 MOC's. Sometimes the MOC's talk, so it is possible that Sen A gives you a nom to 1 SA, Sen B gives you a nom to the 2nd SA, and Cong gives you one to either one, or neither.
Thank you all for the info. Another question, is it ok to ask your MOC if they do Primary nominations(where they prioritize?) or what is the other term.. where they give a list and let the academies pick? What are the proper terms and is it ok to ask?
The correct term is "Principal" nomination, not "primary."
Nominees may be submitted in three categories:
with a principal candidate and nine ranked alternates,
or with a principal candidate and nine unranked alternates.
When the Member specifies a principal candidate, that individual will be appointed to a DOD academy as long as he or she meets all other admission criteria. If the principal candidate is disqualified, the service academies will appoint the first fully qualified, ranked alternate, if specified by the Member. In circumstances where Members do not specify a principal candidate or ranked alternates, one individual from among the Member’s nominees who is found to be fully qualified will be appointed by the academies to serve as cadets.
Competitive is the usual informal terminology.
Sometimes the MOC will put in their application or website that they submit a "Competitive" slate of nominees.
If so, there is no need to ask. If you want to know you can always call and ask. They may not tell you because they may switch it around depending on how many and who applies.
Your ALO usually knows the answer. Many ALO's work closely with the MOC's. Some are even on their boards. We had our 2 senators who did the competitive method and allowed the academy to pick whoever they wanted to. Our representative on the other hand, listed her principal and ranked the other 9. That representative has since retired, and the new representative goes with the competitive method when she allows the academies to choose; along with the senators. But if you ask your ALO/BGO/MALO, they will know.
Sorry to disappoint you, but not all of us know. Most do NOT work with the MOC nominating committees, so the only way we know is if we call up and ask or run into the MOC's point person at a college fair, etc. And, as noted, MOCs can change their approach on a whim.
If you want the answer, ask your MOC's SA point person as, unless your ALO, etc. has just recently spoken with the MOC's office, his/her info may be outdated and wrong.
That sucks. Curious... Do you speak with your MOC's staff about applicants? Not actual individual names, but the academies/process in general? I know quite a few MOCs who are very involved with such things. MOCs who visit and speak at Boy/Girl's state, academies, ROTC, etc... Guess some MOC's are more involved with their states than others are.
No. I currently have no involvement other than hearing our MOC's representative speak at college fairs and occasionally asking a general question before or after the event. However, many years ago (when I wasn't a BGO), I did serve on my (then) MOC's committee, so am generally familiar with the process. That said, every MOC is different.
The Navy organization is such that the Area Coordinator (The head BGO for the entire state/major area) liaisons with the MOCs. In 15 years as a BGO and earlier as a MOC SA selection board member, I have never heard of a BGO 'working' with a MOC.
Were I to ask a MOC rep the type of nomination that the issued, I would treat it as confidential information with the understanding that if they wanted the candidates themselves to know, they would tell them. I specifically state to my candidates, when I am explaining the types of nominations, that I do not perrsonally know how their MOCs nominate.
Yes, everyone is different. The advice here is sound.
To show how different it is/may be...here in AZ...I have an ALO assigned to each MoC and with the exception of one, the MoC's staff keeps that ALO in the loop on ALL things related to military/USAFA, etc.
We know how their nomination processes work, we're actively involved as the AF board chairs, etc...etc...
Other services...it depends, as Mongo and others have said.
Of course the BEST source of information re: MoC's nomination's is their staff!
Which is why I try to never make blanket statements or speak for the other SAs and when I do, preface it with "This is the way USNA does it."
DS wants USNA over other SAs. MOC and Senators ask him to list SAs in order of preference. What to do? Suppose he lists USNA on MOC app, USMA on senator 1 app, USAFA on senator 2 app. Suppose he doesn't get nomination from MOC, but gets one from either senator. Could he change the SA selection after the nomination is received? Or should he simply list USNA on all 3? What if USMA or USAFA sends him LOA but USNA doesn't, either before or after receiving nomination? Lots of different scenarios.
If he wants USNA above all others, he should list the USNA as his #1 on every MoC application.
Trying to play the "nomination game" by listing them in different orders could result in no nominations at all, or 2 nominations to his #2 and #3 choices without a nom to USNA.
Example - Sen #1 may have noms available for USNA and USMA, and sees that your son's #1 choice on the application is USMA, so he gives the USNA nom to another candidate who listed USNA as #1, and gives the USMA nom to your son. In the MoC's eyes, he has satisfied both candidates #1 choice.
^ I concur. Your son needs to chase the dream. This means applying consistently as USNA #1.
Totally concur with what's been said; and I see this every year with my MoC.
We tell the candidates: "If you are interested in more than one SA, then say so, in which order you prefer...and then plan on a long day."
Because we will allow each board to interview the candidate. At the end of the day, we board "chairs" will confer on those that listed multiples and say: "Okay...Candidate KK wanted USAFA first, USMA second, USNA third, USMMA fourth...we at USAFA have him/her ranked #3...where are you?"
If we're limited on nominations, then they're likely to receive ONLY a nomination to that SA that was their highest scoring SA during their interview. On the other hand, if we are NOT limited on nominations, then they might actually receive a nom from our MoC for more than one SA (not common, but not unheard of).
Just depends upon the number of applicants that are "qualified" and the openings available to the MoC.
Yesterday, I hand dellivered one of my MOC applications. So, I asked the SA organizer if they choose a primary or do a slate of nominations. She said they do a slate because they feel the SAs know what they are looking for and want them to choose which candidate is best for their academy. I'll see how that works out for me. I guess I have to get an interview first. Those are mailed in a couple of weeks. Thanks for the advice above.
Separate names with a comma.