More changes for the new APFT

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by AscoreD, Feb 14, 2012.

  1. AscoreD

    AscoreD Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    5
  3. AscoreD

    AscoreD Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    This new PT test will definitely have a big impact on those going to LDAC in 2013...
     
  4. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Well, it's only 9 minute miles and I assume that was for a max score. Not that I could do it, but then I'm not un the Army. But the Marines have to do 3, 6 minute miles for a max score, so it doesn't sound too bad to me. Don't know when the AROTC folks would find time to do the ruck march though.
     
  5. vira

    vira Surfrider

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    You’ll have to run up to four miles in 36 minutes or less, and do a 12-mile ruck march in four hours or less.

    The thing with this though is that it would take up a lot of time, that's what the National Guard and Reserve are units saying at least.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Yes it would, hence my last comment. I don't see how how it gets done. I could perhaps see 9 miles in 3 hours for the ruck. It at least sets the same pace. Rucks are more mental than anthing else though, or at least thats what my DS says.
     
  7. vira

    vira Surfrider

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my unit, we would only conduct 5 mile rucks but for long ones? Ranger Challenge did it on Saturdays, but that would mean every Cadet would lose a Saturday
     
  8. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    5
    I could do it easily but I do not see the practicality of the 4 mile over the 2 mile run. Using the term "gut" check is not a appropriate rationale for the adjustment when the other suggestions include cutting the shuttle run and long jump because older service members apparently are not agile enough.While every service member should be capable of running 4 miles, consistently training to this standard will do more harm on the body than good. Kinesiology and physiology research suggests that interval training is better than long drawn out runs.

    Ruck marches are not difficult as long as you pack your gear correctly/efficiently and take care of your feet PRIOR to seeting off.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    I agree. I don't see how AROTC gets this done. They would need some different standard... unless, of course, they plan on heavy weeding.
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    606
    You are all overlooking a key point.

    The PT test is a semi-annual requirement. Divisional, Corps, and, FORSCOM training guidance (350-1) requires that a 12-mile ruck march at the 15-minute standard pace be conducted either quarterly (XVIIIth Airborne Corps units) or semi-annually. Thus, at worst, the new test would require only one additional ruck march per year. For most units, they can knock out two birds with one stone.


    Heaven forbid cadets lose a saturday. It's not as though they're on scholarship to become officers or something...
     
  11. vira

    vira Surfrider

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's not necessarily a bad thing, but for ROTC, the APFT is conducted monthly. Worse is you'll probably lose some non-contracted cadets who aren't motivated enough to put in the extra time.

    Adding on, since majority of ROTC cadets do not ruck up to 12 miles, we should be doing some extra practice (not sure if necessary though) to be ready if this comes into fruition, so like what kinnem and I are saying, this might just weed out some cadets
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    606
    Good.
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    836
    As a plus the Army will be able to save quite a bit of money on those scholarships they give out, seeing that so many new scholarship winners either fail or barely pass the APFT used today. Passing a new APFT the first semester like this one will be very difficult if the new cadet does not work out, Hard, the summer before school starts.

    I know my son's will find just one fault with this new run. They go to a school that gets it's share of snow. There are times when the weather is so bad they require them to take the APFT in the Rec. Center. They have an indoor track that winds around the Facility, problem is, it takes 18 laps with several turns to equal 1 mile. Can you imagine, 30 plus cadets running 72 laps, I'd buy popcorn to watch that, I guess the could do the Ruck by walking up and down the Admin Tower stairs 380 times. Just to be clear this was meant to be tongue and cheek.
     
  14. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    48 laps around a quarter mile track would probably meet the definition of cruel and unusual punishment, especially for the people who are assigned to keep score.
     
  15. vira

    vira Surfrider

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    For us, running around the track seems like a test of will rather than endurance :rolleyes:

    But it is good for keeping pace
     
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Well Scout, they're not ALL on scholarship but point taken. I think the concern is the monthly inventory PFTs that (at least many) units conduct. So it would be more often than quarterly I think. But you're right. If you want to commission you give up your Saturday. If not, well it's your decision. But it's not like all these kids are getting paid to do this as scholarship holders or active duty soldiers. If my DS were Army I know he would do it without a second thought and probably even look forward to it. But I'm sure there are many who might be lost to the Army, not because of the difficulty but because of the time taken from their STUDIES and real part-time JOBS! Just my $0.02.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    606
    You're right. They might lose some. Too bad. Commissioning AD means guaranteed employment. If serving and being employed isn't worth that time to you, great. Go do something else.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    I think most people would agree with Scout. The Army has their needs to fulfill their mission.

    What I find interesting about this is that people are saying it might be a way to RIF or loss of personal time. Those were not my 1st thoughts. My 1st thought was after yrs of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan may have seen that the troops were not fit enough with the current program.

    I give the Army the benefit of the doubt that there was no dubious intent, their intent is to protect every AD member. A weak link hurts the entire chain. They are protecting your child by doing everything possible that in the battle field everyone is fit.

    Ask yourself if the bad happens to your child or yourself, wouldn't you now want that higher standard? If the answer is yes, than you will have no problem meeting the stds.
     
  19. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    With a 12 mile ruck march, the APFT would almost certainly have to become a two day affair. I doubt you would want to make people run two, three or four miles within minutes of a 12 mile scamper.

    Also, my understanding of the Ranger Challenge Competition ruck march (10 miles?) was that the team had to stay together. As such it's a great test of unit cohesiveness (though Cadet Delahanty indicates some of his quite fit teammates tossed their cookies in the process). However, as an individual fitness test it would totally lose this worthwhile aspect.
     
  20. vira

    vira Surfrider

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    We have cadets falling out of 5 mile rucks, so they need to work to prepare to pass this, if this becomes part of the PFT, or find another program
     

Share This Page