More Jets?

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by nick0094, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. nick0094

    nick0094 Member

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    This is a quote a got from another website, I was just wondering how much truth there was to it: "Ok, if you want to fly jets do the navy. they have way more fighters then the air force. the AF is mainly cargo and transport. In the Af only 4% of the personel are pilots. And only 1% of that 4% are fighter pilots, so you have a VERY slim chance of flying jets, unlike if you were in the navy"




    Thank You,
     
  2. Kero

    Kero Member

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    I am not sure about percentages and but as for the navy if you are medically and anthro qualified, which severly lessens the pool available for pilot so other than those hurdles which you can do little to overcome, it is not that hard to get pilot.

    From there if you work hard in primary, getting jet grades is very doable and at least lately almost everyone with jet grades who selects it have been getting it.

    Then the only hurdle is not getting E2/C2 in advanced, which is the minority, but not being a jet guy (by choice) I can't give more information.

    The gist of the post is it is very doable, not hard, just a lot of work.
     
  3. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    The USAF has many more figher/attack jets than the Navy.
    Approximately the top 10% in USAF pilot training get fighters...although with all the new UAV slots, that percentage may change.
     
  4. Kero

    Kero Member

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    Another benifit of naval aviation, UAV's are flown by enlisted sailors not officers.

    also well rethinking this question it occured to me that the original stat was probably that Naval Aviation (as in Navy and Marines) has more jets than the Air Force (not sure If thats true just a guess) and this was misinterpreted by the website you got the quote from. Still has no effect on how easy they are get.
     
  5. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    Well, the USAF has over 900 F-16s, about 100 F-22s, about 250 F-15Es, plus A-10s and F-15C/Ds.
    I doubt the USN/USMC has more than that.
     
  6. Riv-Rod

    Riv-Rod Member

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    yeah but recently the air force has ordered less fighter and bomber pilots together than UAV pilots. So the numbers will probably change.
     
  7. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Okay...here's my VERY QUICK assessment from various military/online sources.

    One thing: I think some of the jets listed for AF are "ANG/AFRC" aircraft because they're not in the "Active Duty" inventory. They would be F-15A/B and F-16A/B. BUT...they're there.

    Here's what I found:

    US NAVY
    F-5's 36
    F/A-18A 74
    F/A-18B 26
    F/A-18C 286
    F/A-18D 47
    F/A-18E 156
    F/A-18F 176
    TOTAL: 801

    USAF
    A-10A 111
    A-10C 138
    F-15A 57
    F-15B 14
    F-15C 336
    F-15D 54
    F-15E 224
    F-16A 27
    F-16B 28
    F-16C 1,082
    F-16D 180
    F-22A 145
    OA-10A 108
    TOTAL: 2,504

    Note: these are JUST the "fighter/attack/strike" aircraft. I left out ALL the other various types.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  8. devildog55

    devildog55 Member

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    You dont join a service branch so you can "fly jets". You will be solely disappointed when you dont get jets, and get helicopters. Remember, its the service, and the needs of the branch comes first. To become a Naval Officer, you must realize you will be on a ship a lot and a leader of Sailors. Many Navy pilots would go SWO if they couldnt be a pilot, and many USMC guys would probably go infantry. If you just want to fly jets join the USAF.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Devildog is 100% correct, and even in the AF as an AFA grad there is no guarantee that you will fly. Bullet's pilot that he was crewed with at FTU washed out days before graduation and lost his wings. So the path can even change right when you can feel the light at the end of the tunnel on you. A couple of yrs ago that happened at SJAFB where Bullet had to preside over the FEB. Same result, he lost his wings.

    Join for the branch, have the goal, but be willing to serve at the pleasure of the branch.
     
  10. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Dead on accurate statements!!

    I can't tell you how "sad" it is to sit on an FEB (flight evaluation board) where you have to decide whether or not to continue a pilot in their aircraft or in flying period.

    For "newbies" its usually that they just can't adapt to the myriad demands of 3-dimensional thinking while employing a very complicated piece of machinery. With the "old heads" its usually because they've become complacent, dangerous, or seemingly just don't care anymore. That was the case with the latest FEB I was a participant in.

    FOCUS on the end goal; not the "coolest jets" or "who has the most" or ...

    I went to UPT saying: "I grew up in the fighter community, I will fly fighters or I don't care!!!" :thumbdown:

    I'm a good example...I did very well and got a fighter assignment...and then lost it a few weeks later to a situation totally out of my control. I was DEVASTATED!! LIFE WAS OVER!

    And then I realized: I really REALLY wanted those wings!!! So I pressed ahead and "gritted my teeth" when I was assigned to a KC-135. But I said: "I'll be the BEST F-135 pilot the AF has ever seen!" And I did pretty well.

    And one day I was asked if I'd like to "take an exchange" for a tour in a fighter? YES!

    And I flew the F-15, my first choice out of UPT (not my original assignment, that was an F-4) and had a VERY TOUGH time adapting to the demands of that marvelous jet! As Bullet can attest (we flew different versions but...): the jet is not hard to fly; but to EMPLOY it is...well it's NOT easy. BUT...I wanted it so I worked long hours and was blessed with great instructors and...

    Here I am later, a guy that the AF blessed with the opportunity to fly several jets: KC-135A/E/Q/R/T, F-15C/D, T-38. And I was PAID to do it! :thumb:

    The GOAL: WINGS should be your target; the plane you fly is just the "occupational area" of your expertise. Make the decision in what area you'd like to serve, then realize that it might not happen, so have your backup plan. If the service you're considering does NOT have that backup plan, reconsider your plan.

    Mine was simple:

    a. PILOT
    b. WSO
    c. Civil Engineer (Can go ANYWHERE in the AF)

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Thank you Devildog, Pima, and Flieger for your last comments. I was trying to "Hold my Tongue" on this thread. And you all know how hard it is for me to hold my tongue on anything. I have ALWAYS believed; and WILL ALWAYS believe; that the #1 reason a person SHOULD apply to a military academy is to serve their country. And if the capacity in which you want to serve your country is as a Commissioned Officer, then the academy is one of the paths you can go. Sometimes ROTC or OTS is the better route depending on the individual. And if directly going into college isn't to a person's liking, then going enlisted might be the right answer. And I hold the exact SAME respect, pride, and thanks for anyone who chooses to serve our great country in uniform. Whether they are enlisted or officer; Air Force/Navy/Army/Coast Guard/MM; active duty/guard/reserve; etc... I consider each of them equally admirable. No one says that college/academy/ROTC/OTS is the only way to go.

    Yes, there are a lot of young people will dreams and aspirations. They see the glory of Flying. There is nothing wrong with this. But that can not be the main reason for applying to the academy. Just like the free/inexpensive education provided by the academy shouldn't be the main reason for applying. Yes, it's a benefit/perk, but it can't be the main reason. In MY OPINION, if any reason other than to serve your country is the MAIN REASON for applying to the academy; then I think you are wrong and should reconsider your decision. If the MAIN reason is the free education, then please contact me. I will be more than happy to help you understand plenty of ways to go to college without killing your parent's retirement account or having $100,000+ in student loans when you graduate. I've helped many students in the past in this area and it's not that hard.

    DON'T GET ME WRONG!!!!! There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a free education. Nothing wrong with taking advantage of the many benefits of the academy and a military career, such as health care, retirement, world travel, great training for a civilian job down the line, and a host of other things. I'm not saying you shouldn't consider these things. You most definitely should. But if anything other than "I want to serve my country" is the #1 reason for applying; then I believe you need to reconsider. And that included flying jets. You need to first say:
    1) I want to serve my country.
    2) How do I want to serve my county? e.g. Civil service, military, peace corp, etc...
    3) If military; am I more into the Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard, Army, etc...?
    4) If military; do I want active duty or guard/reserve?
    5) If military; If the job I want is not an option because of whatever reason, would I be happier in a different branch of the military, or the military at all?
    6) If military; which branch is more conducive to my interests, goals, future, etc...? (This is where flying planes can be looked at)

    #5 is the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION you need to ask yourself. You are NOT GUARANTEED any job in the military. You might not be medically qualified to fly. You might fail out of UPT or similar pre-requisites. There may not be any slots available at that time. (Yes, they have shut down pilot slots in the past). You might not graduate high enough at the academy to be offered a pilot slot. That's why #5 is so important. If by chance, 4 years later, the career/job you wanted is not to be; are you still happy and committed with being in the military and serving your country. If the answer is probably NOT, then DON'T APPLY TO THE ACADEMY. You are taking a slot away from someone else who believes in "Service Before Self".

    I guess my question is: If you had no idea what type of jobs were available after graduating the academy; and you knew that they could put you in anything from a fighter jet, to a missile silo, to a desk in civil engineering, to being a Lt. at a public affairs center; would you still want to go to the academy??? If the answer is yes, then by all means apply. If not, then don't apply. And the same question applies to the benefits, education, travel, etc... If the medical benefits changed to where you had to pay monthly premiums like a civilian company, or you had to pay part of the educational costs, etc... would you still want to apply to the academy and be in the military? If yes, then great. If no, then don't apply. I know many of these questions are hypothetical and almost rhetoric because they almost can't happen. But that is what the academy, fellow cadets, fellow service members, and our country's citizens want. They want applicants who want to serve their country. That is why we are an all volunteer service still in this point in time. Because we generally get highly qualified and highly motivated volunteers. At the academy, in ROTC, in the enlisted force, and through OTS. We DON'T WANT people who put themselves, the money, the education, the jobs, etc... first. Sorry, but I won't be "Politically Correct" on this one. That is not what any of us want. Yes, it is part of your decision. It has to be. No doubt. But again, look at #5 above. If the job doesn't work out for you, CAN YOU LIVE WITH THE MILITARY COMMITMENT? If yes, then you are who the military and country are looking for. If you think it's going to be a major let down and affect your moral and attitude because you don't get the job you wanted, then don't even apply.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    When Bullet and I say we had a come to JC meeting with DS, that's what we discussed. It also included the fact that don't think you are saving Dad and Mom money and that's why you want to go, or that Dad was AF.

    Our DS made me laugh before he left for college on the ROTC full scholarship(he was the wierdo that opted ROTC over AFA). He said I want to fly the 22...sorry dad (Bullet works on the 35 and flew the Strike), but my main goal is to retire as a Full Bird Col so I will outrank Dad. To me that is a great aspiration. He has his short term goal of flying, but his ultimate has nothing to do with the jet. This might also be existing because anybody who makes it to O-5 and above will tell you the jet is now a dream, and the desk is a reality. He also has his backups planned in case the flying thing doesn't work out.

    Okay Mike, the next time you want to vent, go and take a shot of Weed, wait five minutes and then vent :thumb: Now before you hit post, take another shot and re-read it...if its all good, hit the reply button, otherwise repeat:shake: If you have to take a third, just crawl up in front of the tv and turn ESPN on, as long as you are close enough to the tv :barf:

    Sorry could not resist...let CC explain WEED to you!

    Hey we are going to the AF V Navy game so I will in your honor take a shot of Weed at the AOG tent, but if it is warm temp I will be swearing your name. Bullet will be too if I gag:thumbdown:
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2009
  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I couldn't make it to Minnesota to watch the game this weekend. So I watched it on the tv. But as we do prior to any falcon football game, we toast to those before us. And I always keep some week in the fridge/freezer for such an occasion. But if you and Bullet ever get out this way; Colorado/Wyoming; make sure you let me know. We need to hook up.

    Back on target:::

    I don't want the OP or anyone else to think that I was dogging him. I'm just very passionate about the military and our academies. We're not in a situation where the draft is in affect. It's an all volunteer force. And I know that with the economy the way it is, that it is not uncommon for more people to consider the academy and ROTC as an alternative to a traditional education if the economy was in better condition. I know this is normal, but I simply wish it wasn't a fact. I wish all those considering a military career; whether through the academy, ROTC, OTS, or enlisted, would truly look inside and determine their motives. I can't tell anyone that they can't apply to the academy or join the military for reasons other than for patriotic reasons. And I won't say that those who come in with other motives don't serve honorably. Many do. Whether it's a 5 and dive from the academy, or a 4 year stint as an enlisted person. And many who come in for personal reasons other than service before self, convert over. Just like many who have wanted the military for as long as they can remember, come in and realize that it really isn't for them. I do know and understand the mind of a 17-18 year old.

    But I've seen and heard all the excuses. Recruited athlete comes to the academy; doesn't get the starting position or playing time they thought they should have; and they drop out of the academy in the first 2 years. Cadet who realizes they are physically disqualified from flying, and decides to bail out. I've even seen where after 3+ years of the academy, when a person didn't quite get the job they wanted, they found "Jehovah Witness" and said they could no longer serve the military because of their faith. I'm not saying that any of this scenarios is wrong. But it is a waste. No where in the constitution does it say that the government is suppose to provide anyone with a professional education. The purpose of the education is to serve the military and your country. The fact that you have the education forever and can benefit from it after military service is just a bonus.

    I hope the OP finds the right service for his liking. I hope he applies and gets accepted. I hope that he serves honorably and the military can help him achieve all his goals in life. But I also hope that he finds the true meaning of "Serving". later... mike...
     
  14. gunner1zeus

    gunner1zeus Member

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    CC
    dying of curiosity what is WEED/WEEK Pima stated you would explain, forgive my ignorance
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I had a typo; it's WEED. As in Jeremiah Weed. I could try and explain it, but that would not do it justice. It is not only a tradition, but it's an evolution. It has evolved from the folklore of the links below, to a tradition to celebrate, toast, and remember. To each individual, Jeremiah Weed has a different meaning. Depending on who you are, where you are, the first time ever having it, to the memories of those before you who have had it.

    In it's simplest form, Jeremiah Weed is an alcoholic drink. 100 proof. But it's not the drink that's important. It's the purpose behind it. As it has evolved, it has turned into a ritual to toast. To remember. To realize we were not the first, nor will we be the last. To pray that some day our services will no longer be needed, yet at the same time proud to be willing to serve and put it all on the line if necessary. But most of all, in memory of those who DID put it all on the line.

    The rest of the story; well, you'll have to figure that out for yourself some day. And thus, the evolution. Later..... Mike......

    http://www.check-six.com/lib/Drinks/JeremiahWeed.htm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Weed
     

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