Morrison guilty

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Just_A_Mom, Apr 10, 2007.

  1. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/lo...on0410,0,5052343.story?coll=bal-local-arundel

    Kenny Morrison found guilty and sentenced to two years.

    He deserves it. But he was failed by the culture at the academy that allowed this to happen in the first place.

    Now instead of blaming the supe (or the woman involved) it is time for the Naval Academy alumni, faculty and community to step up and embrace a culture of respect and sobriety. Nothing will change in mids behavior until the expectation of that change permeates the entire community.

    I feel badly for the mids who act in a responsible and reasonable manner to have to deal with the endless lectures on proper behavior. But honestly, if officers are expected to look out for their fellow sailors in the fleet then surely they can look out for their fellow mids when it comes to excessive party behavior.
     
  2. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    That's right it is not his fault but societies. Really, I go for the personal responsibility route. Until our children, young people and even adults take personal responsibility and stop blaming everyone and everything else for every mess they get themselves into, bad behavior will continue.... after all it is not my fault.... The Academy did not fail at anything here. Kenny Morrison failed himself, his victim, the Academy and his fellow midshipmen.

    Exactly what culture are you talking about? The same culture that is in every high school, college and univeristy in America? Replace the words USNA with The University of "State" Same story, same problems, same State Media out cry, same alumni concern....This is not a problem that is unique to USNA.
     
  3. ChipAyten

    ChipAyten Member

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    Right on, USNA nor did any of the alumni or Mids force Morrison to do what he did, he made the conscious decision and must face the consequences. I hope things like this dont give the USNA a bad rep. similar to that of the area it is located in.
     
  4. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Don’t think so. USNA and the other service academies are different. The “culture” is totally different than State U. The SAs impose restrictions on personal liberty that does not exist at civilian schools. Due to these restrictions, midshipmen and cadets perceive that they are being withheld the normal rights of passage available to their friends who are attending civilian schools. Hence, when they are allowed the opportunity, be it Friday night, spring break, or whatever, their immaturity requires them to play catch up. Additionally, rules such as the 0-1-2 regulation also contribute to immaturity by making alcohol consumption a matter of regulation vice a matter of conscience. Additionally, most civilian colleges do not have required coed living arrangements where curfews are enforced requiring drunken hormone ridden young adults to be thrown together on a daily basis in what can only be considered an extremely volatile situation.

    Things used to be easy. No drinking in uniform. No civilian clothes within the 7 mile limit. No going outside the 7 mile limit unless on an authorized weekend. And I think a basic variation of this was still in effect as little as 10 years ago. Alcohol has opened up a whole new can of worms and while one of the major purposes of the Academy is to build character, rules and regulations promoting immaturity and irresponsibility are not helping matters. And no, I do not know the answer.
     
  5. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    What more do you want? They just tossed the turd in jail! Should the Brigade march through Annapolis doing a ritual self-flagellation, now? :rolleyes:
     
  6. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Are you saying that the Naval Academy alumni are wrong in supporting Lamar Owens? That's the one where the alumni and community are blaming the Supe and the woman involved. The Supe actually has pretty much stayed out of this one. And do you know for a fact that the woman is blameless in this one? There was highly conflicting testimony.
     
  7. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Me too. I said he deserved it.

    You are correct. Bad behavior will also continue as long as it is tolerated. The culture of the institution or community chooses the level of tolerance. As long as kids/mids/adults think they can get away with bad behavior it will continue.

    Let me put it this way - if a group of mids are out on the town having a good time and one gets a little drunk and gets in a fight. Do his buddies look the other way, do they stand back and cheer or do they pull him away and remove him from the situation? Now ask yourself the same question only substitute "fight" for "taking advantage of a woman". Same answer? Probably not.
    I would be willing to bet most guys would remove their friends from a fight than from an unconsenting woman.


    You are absolutely correct. I went to college, sure there was drinking. The level today is more intense and far more "binge" drinking occurs. This I do not understand. I don't know why parents condone teenage drinking by letting their kids and friends drink at home. I don't know why young adults need to do shots to get ready to go out, or why they feel the need to drink themselves into oblivion.

    One thing I do know tolerance of bad behavior starts in the home in the teenage years. If parents look the other way while their kids party in high school, it will continue. Kids who party in high school bring their party habits with them to college - doesn't matter which college they attend.
     
  8. nurseypoo

    nurseypoo Parent

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    Thoughtful insights, Just A Mom.
     
  9. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    All in all, a good post. I agree with you. However,


    here i think you may be off base. A fight is a black and white situation. Fights are wrong. Fights will definitely get one in trouble. Now, for the second situation, while putting the moves on a consenting woman is probably the main reason for the evening foray, moves on an unconsenting one should not be tolerated. Unless the woman is wearing a sign around her neck, the friends are probably not privy to the ensuing conversations that caused their friend to determine that he had a "green light".

    The mids I have seen are honorable and mature. I would think that they would protect a friend from going too far with an unconsenting woman. I also think they would quietly cheer on a friend with a consenting woman. The issue for both Academy incidents was that of the level of consent. Alcohol was involved. Alcohol clouded the issues on both sides. Alcohol was a major problem. They need to solve the alcohol problem.
     
  10. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    J_A_M this is so true! The Mids who partied in high school continue to do so at USNA, as they would have done so at any other University.

    Every College Kid in America is immature on some level, the SA's do not have a market on immaturity. I am curious as to why one would think that SA students are somehow more immature? USNA69 in your first post the mids are perceived as immature yet in following post they are now honorable and mature. Please explain the change the change in your view.

    I was under the impression that he was convicted by seven officers on the jury panel. Is my impression wrong? Were they, the jury panel, wrong? Were any of us in the courtroom to hear the "highly conflicting testimony?"

    Very true. This is a statement that can be said and is being said at every institution of higher ed and unfortunately high school in America. Again the SA’s do not have the market on alcohol problems, it is a society problem.

    Possibly, but maybe not. One of the topics that was presented to the parents during the Supe’s brief at Plebe Parents weekend was the culture of drinking. The Supe, along with the Commandant and the Academic Dean stood before us and acknowledged that these are college age kids with the same problems that every college in America faces. They are addressing the issue. At least USNA has 0-0-1-3; and as the letter that came to the parents stated, "trying to instill responsible use of alcohol." Alcohol has been a part of the Military for many years. A good family friend, USNA'45 is the first in the afternoon to grab the Scotch for the 4 O'clock cocktail hour, what he views as responsible drinking - even though he does it at the club and then drives home. At least 0-0-1-3 is a guidline that shows what he is doing is in fact irresponsible. A policy that tries to instill “responsible use” must be given a chance to work. It has been in place for less than a year. Does it make any sense that we teach these kids how to shoot a weapon, drive a million dollar ship and we dare not teach them responsible use of Alcohol?

    Society has changed whether we like it or not. Were the good old days really the "good ol days?" or is it a memory of what is perceived as better times? We all think it was much better when we were in school or did we just not realize at the time what was going on around us, just like today’s kids don't see it.

    Here is an article from a member of the Class of 1963 for the May Issue of Shipmate magazine: http://www.usna63.org/shipmate/columns/May2006.html

    Were times really any different than they are today?

    We as a society give these kids everything and allow behavior that is appalling. If appropriate behavior is not taught at home, I seriously doubt given society today, turning the clock back at USNA will work either. Anyone who sends a child off to one of the SA and thinks that they will somehow be isolated from today’s culture is not living in the present time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  11. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    I was trying to draw a correlation between a restrictive lifestyle and immature behavior. Obviously, with you, I failed totally.


    No change of view at all. Again I was stating that I believe a restrictive culture promotes immature behavior. You yourself stated the perception of the military being an alcohol tolerant society. My last statement was a personal statement as to what I had seen personally in order to preface my opinion of JAM's hypothesis. I have met and observed only honorable and mature midshipmen, none who would have exhibited the behavior commensurate with the two courts martials, or for that matter, not helping their friends.


    Again, didn't say anything about the "good ol days" and did not mean to imply anything of the sort. I simply was pointing out that it was easier to enforce alcohol rules because under most situations, it was against the regulations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  12. nurseypoo

    nurseypoo Parent

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    "If appropriate behavior is not taught at home, I seriously doubt given society today, turning the clock back at USNA will work either."

    Well said, profmom.
     
  13. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    I did miss understand then, I had interpreted your statements that somehow the restrictive life style was better. Then can I draw the conclusion that as Alumni maybe you do not feel that it is, or you see it's downside?

    Only questions for conversation. As you said, I don't know the answer. We all wish we did or that there was not this problem.

    I too have not witnessed anything that I would call immature behavior. There was a group of Sorority sisters from our State University, one whom is a friend of my Mid, who were on the cruise ship Glory for spring break. She said that she saw no behavior that she would have found offensive out of the mids that she meet - she did say she really didn't see them all that much. The Mids that we saw in Philly after the Army Navy Game were all just having a good time, nothing immature about it. Behavior that all of us can be proud of. What I did see that was a concern: a Parent of a Second Class Mid, while the Mid was in Uniform at the Army Navy Game, buying and handing his Mid a beer, correct me if I am wrong but I did understand that "while on duty" no alcohol is allowed? Is this not yet another problem when the parents promote/enable behavior that is in conflict with regulations?

    If enforcing Alcohol rules was easier because for the most part it was against the regulations, didn't the Midshipmen just find ways to break the rules anyway, work hard play hard attitude? Did you find that the rules were enforced more than they are today? And If they were, any ideas to why.

    Question: Did Maryland ever have 18 year old legal drinking? Just Curious; and wonder if it did how that affected the Academy.

    I really do think we are on the same page here. There is a problem, the problem I do not believe is unique to the Service Academies, but probably somewhat different at the Service Academies. Problem with alcohol in general is pretty much universal. Sexual Misconduct...no excuse to occur on either a female or males part.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  14. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    No, I did not mean to imply that a restrictive lifestyle was either better or worse, only different. And more of a challenge, probably, with which to deal.

    These two entire episodes have been a miniscule part of the brigade and I was solely using them alone as examples of immature behavior. I firmly believe that the majority of the midshipmen are mature and responsible individuals.

    My 'good ol times' statement was merely an attempt to show how much more difficult and complex these issues have become. Of course there was alcohol abuse back then but it, being against the rules and regulations, was easy to confront. Not so, anymore.

    I think I basically agree with all three of you in that it has got to be a character issue addressed from within. However, I might disagree in that the restrictive nature of the military makes it an even more difficult issue than that of the general college population at large. I applaud the steps that have been taken to curb the irresponsible use of alcohol but caution against them being seen as the cure-all end-all to the problem.

    Yes, I think MD did once upon a time have an 18 yr old drinking age. But, no matter how hard that is for you 'kids' to believe, it ended a few years before my time. However, they didn't do away with slot machines until my Youngster year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2007
  15. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    And the biggest difference is getting these kids to realize that they have to live in a Bradley Olson Baltimore Sun created zero tolerance higher standard fish bowl than their civilian college contemporaries.
     
  16. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    ^^^^^Very True

    Slot machines...oh my that could get a few in $ trouble :wink:

    Seems neighborhood poker games in our state are the lastest way to get arrested. Summer leave and the boy will need to stay away from the Friday night poker game with all of his friends! Don't want to make the Academy/Military News with "Mid arrested for ...."
     
  17. The Commissioner

    The Commissioner Retired Staff Member Founding Member

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    He probably agrees with the statement, "to whom much is given, much is expected."
     
  18. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    If you are referring to God-given talents, I couldn't agree more. However, if you are referring to a "given" education, I couldn't disagree more. I prefer to look at it as a loan where the interest could very well be one's life.
     
  19. Profmom2

    Profmom2 Member

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    What a great response when one gets well "it's not costing you anything."
     

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