MS4 needing guidance

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by fxrocks8, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. fxrocks8

    fxrocks8 Member

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    Hello,

    Recently I completed LDAC. However I screwed up LDAC big time in my opinion. I got an N due to messing up on Land Nav during night. Besides messing up Land Nav, I received all S's on on evaluations, with a couple of dimensional E's in areas such as leadership posistions, and my STX lane. My TAC told me that if my PMS agree's, that I can retrain/pass Land Nav back at my school, and have my N bumped up to an S. Is there anybody on here who knows if this true, and if so what should I do, to get this process rolling?

    If I can't get my N bumped up, Is there any chance at all if I can make AD in my current situation? I have a 3.5-3.6 GPA, 280 APFT, ranked 6/13 in my BN. In addition I have decent amount of extra-circulars in ROTC. I'm really trying to get QM, TC, or AG.
     
  2. k2rider

    k2rider Member

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    From everything I have read and heard, YES, you will be able to pass Land Nav back at your school.

    As far as the AD part of your question, I have no idea.
     
  3. khergan

    khergan Member

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    I would say pretty unlikely. We had a cadet with almost your exact stats last year who got an N at camp due to land nav. He didn't make AD.

    As far as I know, the land nav thing will be retrainable at campus, but it will not change your LDAC grade. Remember, your LDAC stats and evals are going into CCIMS right now, and accessions is right around the corner. There would be no point in having an N grade if everyone just got to revert it when they went back to campus. I may be wrong, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

    What I would do is still put AD down and just hope for the best. Just acknowledge that you're not guaranteed AD and that it's not the end of the world if you get Guard/Reserve. I have a good friend who got forced Guard and ended up getting a full time gig with them and is very happy.
     
  4. fxrocks8

    fxrocks8 Member

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    Do you know anything about the special branch program for people who have a 2.75+ GPA in certain degrees? If I remember correctly, at LDAC this year during the accessions brief, they were saying that if you have a certain degree, you can get AD regardless of where you fall on the OML (even if below the AD cutoff). I may have a specialized degree according to Cadet Command (Comp Sci) and wouldn't mind doing Signal. I think there were seven branches that qualified, but you had to serve for three additional years. Any info would be appreciated.
     
  5. Bayonet6

    Bayonet6 Member

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    Yes they did brief that and you would qualify with that degree. They briefed you had to list it #1 and ADSO for it.
     
  6. fxrocks8

    fxrocks8 Member

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    Awesome I Adso for signal two weeks ago and made it number 1 choice. I wonder how hard it will be to get AD signal even though I have the special degree and Adso for it, considering ill probably fall below the ad line.
     
  7. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    From the various LDAC threads for THIS year, that is no longer the case. LDAC has shifted focus from "let's see who will stand up under the pressure", to "let's see how we can equip these cadets better for AD by removing some of that pressure and making it a less risky learning environment". I wish I had a link to those articles from a year ago, but I can't find them at the moment. One of the items specifically addressed was failing Land Nav. Another was failing the PT test. Both are given the opportunity to remediate back at their Battalion.

    You could be right, but the two LDAC years and objectives are so different that I would bet not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  8. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

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    eh...

    I don't know how I feel about this...

    We place our enlisted service members under a considerable amount of stress during their initial training (considerable is relative). Those who can't handle TRAINING (physically and psychologically) are chaptered out of the military. No remorse, no excuses, thanks for trying out for the team.

    So now, not only do cadets get a "redo", they get a redo in a less stressful environment? Seriously?

    Its sad to say, but I feel the E-1 who was able to cope mentally and physically during BCT and AIT is better equipped to handle the stress of combat than the INF Officer who couldn't handle the pressure of reading a map on command...

    :eek3:

    Yup, I said it...
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Hey, maybe we can start a thread like they had on the USMA forum about how easy things are now, God I hope not, though it was fun to read.

    I do tend to agree with you.

    When my older son graduated from LDAC we attended the ceremony (We live not too far from Ft. Lewis) During the ceremony they commissioned a large group of End of Camp Commissions. I asked one of the officers in the stands about this, he told us that while some came back for medical or their school schedules, a large number were cadets that had failed LDAC the previous year. Things like Land Nav and APFT, if they received a recommendation they could come back and try LDAC again, if they passed this time they could commission.
    The cadets were not given the opportunity to remediate what they failed back at their battalion. They received extra training but were required to pass these things at LDAC the second time under the same pressure.

    Being able to fail these things at LDAC and then given the chance to pass them at the Battalion does seem to take a lot of pressure off. This pressure won't be lessened at schools like Mountain Warfare, Ranger School, or even BOLC. My son told me about D company at Flight school, it's filled with those that failed something at Flight School and are waiting a new Branch assignment.

    I'm from the old school that follows what you said..."No remorse, no excuses, thanks for trying out for the team"

    Of course we didn't have these new "I'm stressed out Yellow Cards" they can give their DI's buring BCT either.
     
  10. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    I could almost accept a failure at Land Nav as a lack of training issue that should reflect more on the cadre than on the cadet.

    I think some units may not be spending enough time on that activity. And Land Nav is not one of those activities you can train yourself in (unlike PT). Yeah, you can take long hikes through your favorite park, but hiding targets from yourself and providing those coordinates is kind of difficult to do.

    For this, I can see bringing them back next year. I don't think the same cadre who didn't prepare that cadet for Warrior Forge should be in charge of passing the cadet to AD.

    That being said, failing at PT should not be excusable unless someone severely injures his/herself during the event. Pack them up and bring them back again next year. If your form is bad, allow a retest on the last day after a bit of drill training (in addition to the regular stuff) during LDAC.

    Hopefully, they don't allow the ones who get an N for reasons other than PT and Land Nav a second chance.

    If you manage to go through 3 years of MS classes and cannot lead a squad out of a paper bag, that falls into "Thank you for playing. Turn in you uniform and return to civilian life, please." Another year with the same cadre isn't going to fix that problem.

    And pissing hot also falls in this category. Thank you for playing. Now pay back your scholarship. BTW, you need to fly yourself home. The Army is not going to pay to fly a drug problem home.
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    NROTC MO handles OCS failures the same way you describe how LDAC failures were handled in your older son's day. I know of an MO midshipman who failed OCS this past summer. He will go before a PRB back at the unit in the next few days. If allowed to remain (and I have no idea why he failed) he will get another crack at OCS the summer after his senior year and commission at that time (assuming he succeeds). Seems like the right way to proceed to me. I don't think they should necessarily be discharged right away, but certainly a review is in order.

    I certainly agree if you're pi$$ing hot, then there's the door, don't let it in you in the a$$ on the way out.
     
  12. k2rider

    k2rider Member

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    As a parent of (2) AROTC cadets at different schools....I can tell you that the training is vastly different at the various schools. My daughter had NEVER fired a rifle while at school and LDAC was her first experience with an M16/AR-15. My son, only an MS-I last year, was already out shooting with his unit. He also had more Land Nav opportunities so everything is not equal by any means.
     
  13. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    maybe this new "remediate at your home Battalion" is in reality an effort by CC to shine a spotlight on that sending Battalion... "WHY ARE NOT TRAINING YOUR CADETS PROPERLY!" It won't be long before that NCO is getting the job done, or replaced as soon as practicable. I would guess that CC is well aware of the huge disparity in the quality of training at the different Battalions, and is trying to clean that up.
     

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