Multiple Nomination

LMAO, ROFL! Bullet has always used that statement starting back when he attend PME at Leavenworth as an AF officer. He was constantly teased/taunted that the AF officers are Prima Donnas working banker hours, making a million plus flight pay. His answer has always been, not my fault YOU DIDN'T CHOOSE WISELY.

:shake: However, I didn't mean to imply by that, that they should go Air Force! :rolleyes:

Just kidding. Glad you got a kick out of it. I use it a lot myself. Part of what I like about it is that's it's only two words, and yet sounds so deep, thoughtful, and profound.
 
My real point, is that I believe the system is flawed and I feel the candidates with the very best whole candidate scores should be given all the opportunities without "having to choose wisely." I think the nomination system should be run the same, regardless of what state/district somebody lives in. I believe there really are kids who just want to serve and would truly be happy to go to any service academy and serve in any branch of the service, especially if their goal is to get a fully-funded excellent education that will rival any other institution. I know people will probably blast me about that statement, but I don't think this is a improper statement. Bottom line, though, if somebody really has a goal to serve, they will find a way to do it, even if they don't get into a SA, an ROTC Scholarship or even don't go to college initially.

I know the system is what it is and I have no sour grapes in any of this, as our DD has decided not to move forward with her SA applications. I know there is no reason to argue any of this, since you do have to work within the system as it is. I just stand on the principle that the system needs to be revamped. If nobody ever does voice their concern, then we are guaranteed that the system will never change.
 
My real point, is that I believe the system is flawed and I feel the candidates with the very best whole candidate scores should be given all the opportunities without "having to choose wisely." I think the nomination system should be run the same, regardless of what state/district somebody lives in. I believe there really are kids who just want to serve and would truly be happy to go to any service academy and serve in any branch of the service, especially if their goal is to get a fully-funded excellent education that will rival any other institution. I know people will probably blast me about that statement, but I don't think this is a improper statement. Bottom line, though, if somebody really has a goal to serve, they will find a way to do it, even if they don't get into a SA, an ROTC Scholarship or even don't go to college initially.

I know the system is what it is and I have no sour grapes in any of this, as our DD has decided not to move forward with her SA applications. I know there is no reason to argue any of this, since you do have to work within the system as it is. I just stand on the principle that the system needs to be revamped. If nobody ever does voice their concern, then we are guaranteed that the system will never change.

Understood. And you have no dog in the fight so I'm convinced this is principle with you. My own fear is that if it changes at all, it would only be for the worse. Doesn't seem like Congress ever makes anything better!
 
^^^^

I don't disagree. However, Congress designed the system (at a time when noms were used for political patronage, which they really aren't today) and the only one who can change it is Congress. And they have no incentive to do so b/c they have all the advantages.

The problem with inciting change is there isn't a sufficiently large consituency. Even in a VERY competitive state, only (at most) a few thousand candidates and their families are affected. Out of those, some will receive noms and so be happy. Others will know/accept the fact they weren't sufficient competitive (which, sadly, is the case for some candidates) and won't complain. That leaves a very small group of people who are unhappy with the system and they move on to Plan B. The next year, it's an entirely new group of people. So it would be hard to gain the traction needed for reform.

Lots of folks (including the SAs) would like to see a system more aligned with USCGA's. But, in an era of budget cuts and sequestration, the Services aren't going to go to battle with Congress on this point.

As an aside, I hope your DD didn't pull out for this reason. Having observed the system for many years, I do believe that -- as a general rule -- the most deserving candidates receive the noms. Are there some close calls? Sure. Are there some situation with which I would disagree? Sure. But this is a subjective process and, overall, it is probably as fair as any other that would replace it.
 
USNA1985 - I agree with everything you have said and the reasons we will probably never see a change.

The nomination process definitely did not affect DDs decision to not move forward. I truly believe she would have gotten a nomination (but don't all parent, think so? :smile:) based upon her total profile. Now that her goal is to pursue an ROTC scholarship, I hope she will be just as competitive in that arena.
 
I posted this already. I think people are assuming that there is a huge discrepancy between number 1 on the list and number 10, but I highly doubt it.

I am betting out of a pool in states that spread the wealth can have a pool of 700+ applicants. Think of states like CA, TX, FL, VA, MD, their population size is huge.

Do you really believe that nom #1 has 2100 best sitting, top 5% rank, NMSF, NHS, 2 Varsity sports for 3 yrs, 300 community service hrs, every AP offered at the school; and nom #10 has 1800 best sitting, a few APs, top 20% rank, with 1 sport for 1 yr?

I can share only what I know as I served my Senator's USMA board once and two difference Congressman's SA Boar 6 o 7 times, in MD.

For USMA Senatorial board, your statement is more true, but clear difference between #1 to #10 candidate. We had to rank order them. For MOC, very significant differences between #1 to #10 even for Navy nomination.


USMAROTC,

SA's are not 24/7/365 days a yr for 5 yrs. AD is! I would love one poster tell me why they would be happy with all 3 from a career perspective. Not the pat answer I want an SA education, and the training , but what happens after they pin on their butter bars in their career field.

I look at it differently as to how does a 17 or 18 year old that never flew a fighter jet off of an aircraft know what he or she wants to do as a career? The reality is most SA applicant take a guess on what they think they want to do. Does a kid who wants to be an Army Special Forces realize that they have to serve in non-SF branch for two years, apply to be SF, might not get selected, go through two years of schooling, multiple deployments, instead of killing terrorists like in the movies, but might be teaching Afghans soldiers to how to shoot their rifles.

I don't think "happy" is not a main reason why someone should pick a military service. I think "selflessness" is more fitting.
 
Not sure if this was covered in the last 2 pages. if so, I apologize.

When it comes to nominations, spreading the wealth by a senator or representative isn't really that bad; or unfair. Lets just use one academy as an example. We'll use air force. (Although army and navy have the same rules under title 10 USC). To make it even simpler to understand, we'll use my state (Wyoming) because it only has 1 representative.

Lets assume we have 30 qualified applicants all looking for a nomination. If there are some, say 3, that really stand out and kick butt; the senators and representative are totally free to give that individual a Principal Nomination. That even GUARANTEES the individual an appointment if they are qualified. As for the other 27 nominees; it doesn't matter if they only have 1 nomination or if they had all 3. Except for the one individual appointment charged to that slate, the rest go into the national pool. And once there, it doesn't matter if you have 1 nomination or 4. You don't get any extra points for that. So, for MOCs talking to each other, for the same academy, and giving out the MOST nominations possible and spreading the wealth, there is nothing wrong with that. They can reward their "Stand-Out" nominee with a principal guaranteed appointment. They rest; the academy will choose from. There's no advantage to having multiple nominations.

Now; where some of you make a good point, is when the MOC's are pitting each academy against each other. Let's assume again we're using Wyoming and 3 MOC's total, as an example. This time, we have 90 applicants for the big-3 academies. If the MOC's decide that the 30 they gave to the air force slate (10 each senator and 1 each representative), that they WOULDN'T ALLOW them to have a nomination to their West Point Slate or Annapolis slate; and they wanted to give 30 different to one and the final 30 to the other; then that indeed could be a problem. That's why MOC's / States who do it this way, request their applicants to RANK their choices of academies. They're hoping that their highest top-30 applicants each; equally want a different one of the big-3 academies. This way they can put 10 on each slate and maximize all 30 applicants each.

I know this can seem unfair if a person on the air force MOC slate, didn't get an appointment, and they were better qualified than someone on the Army or Navy list, who DID receive an appointment. But, because they chose and got a nomination for Air Force, they weren't allowed, per their MOC/s policies, to get a nomination to another academy. This could seem unfair, but you're never going to be able to please everyone. And I know some will say that it should simply be the "Most Qualified" on each slate. On paper, that makes sense; but this isn't paper. Just like the academy has to weight each applicant based on many factors; e.g. public school vs private vs home schooled; AP vs IB vs Neither available; etc... Well, the MOCs have to do the same thing. So who's really to say WHO's more qualified. If you're just going to look at a GPA and SAT/ACT scores; that's not enough. It's not enough for the academies. It's not enough for me as an ALO. And it's definitely not enough for a MOC. I've interviewed individual for numerous applications. I.e. Interviewed the same person for the academy AND for ROTC. Also, assisted the navy BGO in interviewing the same person to go to Anna. It was obvious, without asking, the excitement change this individual had for wanting to go to Anna. That type of "EXCITEMENT" means something to me. If I was the MOC and had limited slots and many more applicants, I'd have had no problem nominating this individual to Navy over someone else where navy wasn't their #1 choice. Even though "On Paper", that individual might have a higher GPA or ACT score.

I'm fortunate in Wyoming. Unless you are a really bad applicant, you're going to get at least 1 nomination for EACH academy if you apply. If you're in the top 50% of applicants, you'll probably get at least 2 nomination to EACH academy. If you're in the top 10%, you'll probably get all 3 nominations to all 3 academies. And our MOC's are starting to get on the "Principal" nomination band wagon too.

But unfortunately, not all districts and states are like that. You can't please every person. And unfortunately, you can't just say: "Give it to the most qualified, no matter how many they get". That is way too vague. That individual I said I'd give a nom to Navy in a heartbeat, If I had limited slots, I definitely wouldn't have given him one to West point. You could tell that his heart wasn't in it for west point. I definitely can't blame a MOC for wanting to give as many candidates a chance as possible. If a candidate doesn't know which academy they truly want to attend, and they just want all 3-4, then I have to wonder what is their deepest motivation. Maybe it is simple "TO SERVE" and which branch doesn't matter. That's possible, but very rare and very unlikely. But like I mentioned, I'd rather give nominations to a person's "1st choice" than to skip over a 1st choice and give it to someone where it was their 2nd or 3rd choice; simply because they had a higher gpa or SAT score.
 
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