My chances or receiving an AFROTC Scholarship or Army ROTC Scholarship???

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by family456, May 1, 2014.

  1. family456

    family456 New Member

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    I'm a junior in high school interested in going to Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Prescott, AZ. This school is extremely expensive and I want to go on any type of scholarship. My grades are as follows:

    Unweighted GPA: 3.4
    Weighted GPA: 3.6
    SAT: 1770 (planning on taking again)
    ACT: 25 taking again in June

    (planning to take SAT II Bio and Math 2 in June)

    EC:
    3 years of Water Polo: no varsity
    3 years of Swimming: 1 year varsity
    American Red Cross Club @ School (Vice Pres)
    Key Club @ School
    Hold a leadership position at my church
    Police Explorers (won 3 awards at the explorer academy)
    Student Council @ School

    I have a job secured as a lifeguard over the summer

    Also, at the ERAU I have a passion to become a pilot, but if in any way possible I want to prevent myself from serving full time, that's why I want to go in the National Guard/Reserve, but what exactly do you do in the National Guard/Reserve?

    Thank you for your answers.
     
  2. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    To be honest, with your gpa and standardized testing scores, an AFROTC scholarship, or NROTC one if you're looking into that too, is not likely. Maybe you can get an AROTC one, but I think they're becoming more academically competitive too.

    The thing is, you have 2 goals here that that may be in conflict with each other. Idk what kind of pilot you want to be, but for fixed wing AFROTC is your best bet, I believe army has mostly helo's. But if you only want Guard/Reserve AND want to do ROTC in college, Army is the only option for that. AF and Naval ROTC only commission active duty officers. Army is the only one with a Guard/Reserve component. Who knows, after a year or two in ROTC you may decide you really want to go active, Army allows you to make the choice. But if you really want to be a pilot and aren't into helo's, going into AFROTC will be better for you. Other option is to try to get a reserve pilot slot through OTS after finishing college which is pretty hard to do.

    Which is more important to you, being a pilot or being in the reserves/guard? And ERAU is extremely expensive. Nothing against them, but depending on what you want to study there are much cheaper options at schools with similar or better programs. It's pretty good for AE, but you'll have to decide if it's worth it for you in the long run. For example, my school is #2 for my major, the difference between it and the #1 school is .1 on the ranking chart. My school costs $10,000-$12,000 per year for me, that and room and board plus meals is totally covered for me. The #1 school costs $45,000-$50,000 per year. To me that .1 extra ranking wasn't worth the extra $40,000 or so I'd have to pay to go there.

    You should really explore your options and decide if the cost/benefit of going to ERAU is worth it for you. If after that you still think it's your best option then go for it, but be realistic about what you can manage financially if you don't get a scholarship, and bring your parents into the loop if they're going to have anything to do with paying for your education. Mine weren't going to pay for anything anyways out of principle, they feel young adults should be able to either get their own scholarships or loans to pay for their education, and I totally agree with them. A couple hundred every now and then if fine, but usually parents have their own student loans to deal with on top of everything else (unless they're rich). Don't take them taking on half/most of your debt lightly. If you're planning to have your parents pay for a good chunk of your education, they deserve some input into what's best for you and for your family if you have siblings coming behind you.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  3. family456

    family456 New Member

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    thanks for you reply.
    Do you know of any other schools with good aeronautical sciences departments that aren't as expensive as ERAU?
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If you do not want to go AD than DO NOT apply for AFROTC.

    AFROTC grads do not have a reserve/guard option. You will go ADAF.

    As for your chances nobody sits on the board, but the reality is you have 0% chance if you do not apply.

    Statistically you are on the academic short end of the stick for a 4 yr AFROTC scholarship. The avg SAT is closer to 1300 out of 1600. They do not super score the SAT, it is best sitting. Your ACT is at the min to be considered for boarding. A 24 V will be considered non-competitive. The avg ACT is 28 for a 7 and you will need at least a type 2, which hovers around a 30. A type 1 is over 31.

    Also, the way the AFROTC scholarship works is it is more like a 2+2 scholarship. It is guaranteed for 2 years, if selected for summer field training as a rising junior they will guarantee it for two more years. If not selected, you run the risk of being dis-enrolled and the loss of the scholarship.

    Finally, it is said constantly here, do not select the scholarship path if it is the only way you can afford to attend the college. The reason ROTC offers that first year with no repayment option is because they realize cadets decide that first year this was not the right path.
     
  5. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate-aerospace-aeronautical-astronautical

    U.S. New's rankings are pretty reliable, more so than forbes when it comes to colleges at least. It's best to get a feel for the school yourself, but this is a good place to start. ERAU is #1 for schools that don't offer a doctorate degree here http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-aerospace-aeronautical-astronautical, but look at the ones that do from the 1st link. There's a whole lot more of them and there are some really outstanding schools. But like I said, if after you've explored some more ERAU is still the best for you and you can swing it financially, go for it.
     
  6. family456

    family456 New Member

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    Thanks Prima.

    My mind right now is on and off about going serving AD because my goal in the end is to be an airline pilot and people have told me that serving as a pilot in the military will give you a higher chance in getting you a job at an airline company because of the hours you log in during the time you work for the Air Force. Is this true? If I do serve for 8-10 years, will it be easier for me to transition to civilian airlines? (I want to be an international airline pilot, hopefully a Boeing 747 or 777 type plane for a major company like Delta, American Airlines, UPS, etc.)
     
  7. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    From what I've heard from a retired general and a couple colonels in the AF, airlines love prior military pilots. That's part of why the military offers extra bonuses to pilots, to try and get them to stick around since they know, and the pilots know, they could be making more flying for an airline.
     
  8. family456

    family456 New Member

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    Just a question, are you a pilot?

    And if you are and you don't mind me asking: which school did you go to? Which company do you work for? And is all the money paying for flight trainings worth it?
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Our DS is an AF pilot (C-130J). The reality is if you want to fly the big planes for the airlines you are going g to want to go AF for many reasons.
    1. Army currently has very teeny tiny inventory of fixed wing, their inventory is rotor. It is the flip of the AF. AF has a small inventory of rotor, but the largest inventory of fixed.

    2. You will need a special rating, and it costs tens of thousands of dollars. Plus, the reason they love military pilots is the amount of multi-engine flight hours. Heavy pilots can rack up thousands in a very quick time. Bullet who flew F15Es for 20 years left with 2500+. Understand that a strike eagle mission is about 90-120 minutes, unless in combat. Or in other words, he had over 1200 sorties.
    ~~~ The reality is you do not fly everyday, maybe twice a week. You will be given a desk job too as a pilot because you don't fly everyday. You also will step out of the airframe for desk tours if you decide to stay and want to make rank. Hard to walk away from 150- 225k bonus. Fighter/heavy have different bonus structures, but it still is 25K a year on top of the flight pay that tops out at another 10k a year. Bullet flew for 14 of his 20 years.

    Flight time is not cheap, even much more expensive to train on multi engine aircraft. A Cessna flight hour costs @175+ an hour. Cessna's are not multi-engine.

    Most that do the non-mikitary path will get what we call puddle jumpers. IOWS, they will be the pilot that flies between DC and Raleigh....maybe or they fly out of executive airports where the big planes aren't in their way.
    ~~~ We had a friend that was an AF CSO, got his multi-engine while in the AF. He left as an O4 to become an airline pilot. After 4 years of puddle jumping he came back into to AF because financially he couldn't afford to keep jumping, and he was never brought up to the big leagues. Unfortunately for him, the AF brought him back at O4 and the same amount of years as when he left. He started UNT with Bullet. Bullet at that point collected his bonus, was an O5 and able to retire 4 years earlier than him.

    The airlines have a choice, take you that paid to get the min. Amount of hours for training, or take the pilot that made it through military pilot training.
    ~~~ Statistically, from start to finish for pilot wings, about 40% will wash out of training. 25-30% at IFS, and than 25-30% at UPT.

    These people also have lived in stressful situations in real life, be it in combat or when a plane malfunctions.

    Additionally, the way the world works (employment) a lot of times is the word you hear bantered about is networking. It is no different in the airlines. The AF flying world is not as big as some might believe. We have friends that fly for SWA, Jet Blue, United, Continental, UPS and FedEx. They are constantly writing recommendations for other AF pilots as a referral. The airline hiring committee takes that into consideration when choosing between the applicant that paid for it on their own and the one that was military with a recommendation from one of their pilots.
    ~~~ When we told our best friend that is a Captain for SWA that our DS got a C-130J he was so excited. To paraphrase him, that's great I'll be still at SWA when he joins us. :shake:
    We laughed and reminded him DS wants to do twenty.
    His response: We'll see, I am sure I can get him to see my side of things when his commitment is up in 9 years.

    NOW for your reality check.
    ~ You need to research the AF even more, especially AFROTC and going rated. You just don't say I want a pilot slot and they give it. You apply for all rated slots which include Navigator (CSO) , RPA and ABM. Your OML will determine which of those four you get.
    ~~~~ Two tests will be given, the AFOQT and TBAS for scoring purposes.

    Yet, I am getting ahead of myself. You will need to be selected for field training (earlier post)

    If you make it passed those hurdles, you will need to pass the flight class 1 physical. For AFROTC they will send you to Wright Pat AFB for a 3 day physical, everything from Ears, nose, throat to EKGs.

    Simultaneously, you will also be going through a top secret security clearance.

    OBTW, for what it is worth, becoming a pilot does not mean you need a degree in engineering. Our DS majored as a Govt and Politics major and like I said he was winged out of UPT last Friday. The top grad in his UPT class was not ROTC, not AFA, he was OCS prior enlisted, JMPO, the big reason to go engineering if you want to be a pilot is if your career goal is to become a test pilot. You must have an engineering degree for test pilot.
    ~~~~ At our DS det when he commissioned in 12, 50% were non-tech. 2 of the techs that got UPT never winged. 1 washed out at IFS and 1 at UPT. Flying is not just about being book smart, it is a lot about handling the stick.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  10. MSFaygo

    MSFaygo Member

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    Nice summary - especially good because it is based on several levels of experience! A 'must-read' for anyone who wants to be a pilot - great insight into what to expect down the road. This would be a good 'sticky' topic - right up there with room and board options. :thumb:
     
  11. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    What Pima said cannot be emphasized enough. There are other recent threads here that discuss Summer Field Training selection for this year. I'm probably wrong about what I recall, which is only 60% made the cut, but you can verify it on these threads. Be prepared to work your butt off both academically and in AFROTC. And have a backup plan in place for how you'll continue your schooling if you don't make the cut and lose the scholarship.
     
  12. Strength and Honor

    Strength and Honor Member

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    I think you have a good chance of getting at least a 3 year Army scholarship, especially if you can increase the test scores and get some more Varsity experience. From my experience, for popular ROTC schools like Embry Riddle, you've really got to make yourself stand out to the cadre..... Try your best to email them and show your interest, and interview there as well.

    Other public schools with good flying programs and ROTC are Purdue University and the University of North Dakota.
     
  13. mkhawk95

    mkhawk95 New Member

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    Perform

    Resume is not everything. I graduated highschool with a 2.9 unweighted and a 3.2 weighted. My SAT score, took the test one time, was a 1700. Add 2 years of Varsity Football and 1 year of Varsity Wrestling it still is a mediocre list of accomplishments. However, I crushed the fitness test and Interview, so I got an Army Scholarship to VMI. If you really want the scholarship you have to prove to them, not just on paper, that you can perform physically and professionally.
     
  14. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I see that you have a passion to be a pilot, but you didn't say "pilot in the Air Force". In fact, you didn't really say anything about why you want to be in the military other than 1) it might give you "any type of scholarship", and 2) you want to avoid Active Duty.

    Based only on your post, do you see why I might wonder if you even have any desire to serve your country? I see you want a scholarship, I see you want to be trained by the military so you can be a commercial pilot, but I don't see that you even like the military. To me, it's fine if just one of the reasons you want to serve is to be set up well for commercial life after your duty, but if it's the main reason, you'll hate it.

    What if I were to say to you: "Can someone tell me how to become a police officer? I have a passion to be the mayor of my town, and I'm told that being a police officer is a good thing to do first so I can get elected. I don't actually like the idea of the day to day life of a police officer, but that doesn't matter because my true passion is to get elected as Mayor, and that's a price I'm willing to pay.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  15. thwig

    thwig New Member

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    Hey if this helps i received a 4 year Army ROTC scholarship to the citadel (class of 2018) with a 22 act and 3.134 GPA. I had various leadership roles in sports and clubs. Dont worry about your numbers they look great just make build your profile as much as possible. Good luck!
     
  16. bob80q

    bob80q bob80q Banned

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    for the 2012-13 SY 4 year ROTC scholarship recipients averaged 3.77/1270, the competition will only get more fierce since with the drawdown of the military there will be fewer scholarships available. Keep in mind also that active duty pilots currently incur a 10 year active duty commitment after UPT. You can get a pilot slot through the AF Reserve and ANG but also exceedingly competitive and usually requires one to have a private pilot license and/or some type of aviation background like having been a crew chief or flight engineer. May want to consider joining the guard or reserve before college since it qualifies you for the GI bill and other tuition breaks, then look at a career field like aircraft maintenance or perhaps loadmaster.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Bob,

    Although that stat is true, the OP needs not just any type of scholarship, but at least a type 2, thus their stats will need to be higher.

    For the OP I say that because ERAU is more expensive than the allowablle in state tuition rate.

    The at least, really should be stressed because they really need a type 1 in reality. Type 2s are capped at 18k. This amount has not increased in approximately 6-7 years, with the current DoD budget being cut due to sequestration until after he will commission in five years, the chance of that 18k cap increasing will be slim. However, the chances of ERAU increasing their tuition every year by 5-10% is very likely. They could be out of pocket financially before they graduate.

    That being said, it is also important to realize how the numbers breakdown.
    5% of all scholarships are type 1. Those recipients score in the mid 1300 out of 1600
    15% are type 2. They are high 1200-low 1300
    80% are type 7. They are the high 1200s.
     

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