Naval Reserve question?

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by em23, Dec 17, 2011.

  1. em23

    em23 New Member

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    I need to clear up a few things about service obligations. I was hoping someone could enlighten me on these questions. So on "Acceptance Day" we take the Oath of Office into the Naval Reserve, but what rank are we in the Reserve? Like if we were called upon to serve while at the academy, would we immediately be pulled out and be commissioned Ensigns?

    And after graduation, if I plan on going Active Duty in the Navy, I wouldn't take a Naval Reserve commission right, since I would just go active duty anyways (kind of a stupid question) right? Thank you to anyone who answers these questions.
     
  2. bugsy

    bugsy Member

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    These aren't stupid questions. They are excellent questions that demonstrate you aren't glossy eyed about a SA but really interested in understanding what it means to be commisioned.

    There are typically 4 commisioning sources in each service. Regular, reserve, direct and otc/ocs. Any of these source can place you on active duty depending on vacancy. I had a reserve commision from army rotc. Served on active duty for a couple years then gained a direct commision in the the air force and have served in the air force ever since. Having a regular commision used to protect you from a RIF reduction in force. But now a days no one is protected from a RIF. Reserve commisioned officers used to compete for a regular appointment when going up for Major. Now its automatic. At least in the Air Force. I personally see no difference in your ability to serve on active duty from any commisionaing source. Now your options, timing and chances might be different depending on source. Youll have to research that depending on what you intend to do in the service.

    The af, army, and navy SA provide a regular commision. You must go active duty in that service with few exceptions The coast guard seems to do the most direct commisioning. And the others a mix.

    A naval reserve commision from USMMA will allow you to go active duty Navy, direct commision coast guard. The 2 most popular. And cross commision into army, marines and air force. Clearly the most options of any SA.

    On acceptance day at any SA or acceptance of an ROTC scholarship When you take the oath you are the rank of cadet or midshipman, depending on SA. You are accepting an oath to serve for repayment of your free education. You wont be called on active Duty as a midshipman until you graduate or as an enlisted if you quite the program after a cut off time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  3. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    It's called "Navy Reserve" now.
     
  4. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    The papers you sign on Acceptance Day are as an E2 or Seaman Apprentice. Its really all just administrative, they have to have you as something. You are not going to get called upon to serve while at the Academy. Theoretically I suppose it is possible but your biggest use at that point would be as a Wiper or QMED on a ship moving war cargo.

    There is a difference between getting commissioned into the Reserves and getting a reserve commission. Everyone (in the Navy anyway) gets a reserve commission including USNA. After a certain number of years, I forget how many exactly, they can transfer to an Active Duty commission. It doesn't really mean a lot to the individual and is primarily a personnel numbers game.
     
  5. KPMom20150156

    KPMom20150156 Member

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    Didn't USMMA midshipmen get called up during a war one time? Can't remember but I thought I read that somewhere. Didn't mean to imply he can/will get called up, just trying to get this old brain to remember some history.
     
  6. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    M/N go into war zones and move war cargo alongside the regular ship's crews, but it was always a part of their regular sea year. They've never been brought out of school specifically for that purpose. I suppose you might make that claim somewhat in WWII, but the school wasn't really in its current form then and they were actually graduated but in less than four years.
     
  7. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Also the Class of 1974, I believe, had their Academy "Careers" shortened and graduation accelerated so they could join their licensed colleagues and transport cargo to Vietnam.

    The "142" on the USMMA Battle Standard is for the 142 who died while serving as Cadets on ships during their training during WWII.
     
  8. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but USMMA is the only service academy that has the battle standard on the academy's flag. Right?
     
  9. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Ironically yes, you are correct. The USMMA is the only service academy authorized to carry a battle standard. Just as it is ironic that the Service with the highest mortality rate in terms of % of those who served in the theater of operations, at least as I understand the statistics, is the US Coast Guard - is my understanding on that correct?
     
  10. bugsy

    bugsy Member

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    Yep. Now Navy Reserve along with other changes that took place in 2005.
    ----
    Today, there is no distinction between USN and USNR Officers, no matter what the commissioning source. All hold the same ranks, have the same responsibilities and authority, and enjoy the same privileges. As part of the U.S. Navy's Active Reserve Integration (ARI) inititiave that "operationalized" the Navy's Reserve Component, the term "U.S. Naval Reserve" was superseded by "U.S. Navy Reserve" and the term USNR was discontinued as a matter of Total Force policy in 2005. All officers in the U.S. Navy now use the term USN with their rank titles.
    ----

    I got this email from a friend who is a Navy personelist.

    Dont know if the other services changes in 2005 as well but it wouldnt surpise me.
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    All use USN? Kind of offensive to the guys who are AD.....
     
  12. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Only if you think you are somehow better than because you are AD. Is a member of the Reserve Component not in the Navy? Is a member of the Reserve Component not held to all the same standards of competence?

    This is exactly the attitude that fostered the change. :thumbdown:
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    No, they aren't held to the same standards. In fact, that becomes quite obvious when you've worked with both active duty and reserves (in any service).

    So one guy serves 24/7, loses leave because numbers are low at his unit, spends months away from home, can't run for public office, can't be politically vocal, needs to have nicely cut hair, etc....

    and another guy serves one weekend a month, two weeks a year, lets his hair grow out in between drilling, etc etc etc....

    Yes, they are both part of the Navy, but only the reservist considers his time "on par" with his active duty counter parts.

    So the reservist wants his mobilization ribbon, he just doesn't want to be labelled "Reservist".


    I worked with reservists on a response, and what I can say is they are WEALTH of knowledge. I had one working for me, a 1st class petty officer...who was also a VP at a company. I had one who won an Emmy for a story he did... and he was also a petty officer. The experiences they gain are far more varied than that of an active duty service member....

    BUT at the same time, they're "out of the loop." I saw an O-6 dress down and O-5 for a very minor issue in a very public room. It was inappropriate considering the people who were in the room. I was unimpressed by the "military bearing" and the overall understanding of how the military works day in-day out.

    Do the two balance out? Not in my estimation. As I approached my separation date, a number of people suggested I switch to reserves instead of getting out all together. I considered it. But I think every branch could integrate their reservists much better than they currently do.



    So no, in my mind, active duty and reserves are not "the same". If they were, reservists should just bag their higher paying jobs, leave vacations up in the air and be "on call" 24/7.
     
  14. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    So your premise is basically that a reservist is less of a sailor because he doesn't need as many haircuts? One weekend a month, two weeks a year ... those days are long gone. The RC regularly does work at night at home that AC does on the clock.

    We could go tit for tat on poor leadership all day so I wont bother except to say that Leadership is not the provence of either component. There is good and bad in both.

    Judging by your comments and that you didn't know about the change, you were not around when the change was made and or/are in a different service. How would you know what is expected of both AC and RC Navy and how are they different? Once upon a time you would have been right but times they are a changin. All RC billets are listed on AC unit manning documents and the training and professional requirements do not change. GMT requirements do not change, MED/DEN requirements do not change, PFA requirements do not change.
     
  15. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I worked with members of Navy Reserve regularly and there was a distinct difference because reserves and AD. So you are correct, I do not know the difference of what is expected WITHIN the Navy of reserve and AD sailors, however I do know the difference on working with both from an outside perspective. There's certainly a difference within the Coast Guard, which could be a separate conversation all together. I felt the service (USCG) failed its reserve members. They weren't "in the loop", but how could they be, they had full-time employment elsewhere.

    That's not to say it's the reservists fault at all. For someone constant engaged in Naval work, as it is 100% of what they do, there is a very definite difference between them and those who are "part time".

    I agree with your comment on leadership, except that bad leaders in the active duty world hopefully are trimmed off at some point in the O-4 to O-5 range. There are exceptions.... I worked for one. :)

    The push to see if differently is right up there with "Active Duty, Reservce, Civilian.... all part of the same family... all the same." They aren't. Not by a long shot. They couldn't be. You couldn't ask an active duty member to do their AD work AND a full time job elsewhere, anymore than you could ask a reservist to carry a full time job AND serve 24/7 in a military position. Sure you have those who basically fill an AD position in their reserve billet. I have a friend right now trying to transfer from the Navy Reserve to AD....and he's considering trying to transfer to the Coast Guard if it doesn't work in the Navy (although he would drop down one or two paygrades to make the transfer, and the USCG AD community isn't really hurting for bodies now anyway).
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  16. em23

    em23 New Member

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    You guys are awesome! Thank you so much for clearing up my questions! The reason I asked was because I got my appointment in the mail yesterday, and I'm just about ready to sign it! Thank you to all!
     
  17. Lynpar

    Lynpar Member

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    Congrats em23! :thumb:
     
  18. bugsy

    bugsy Member

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    Congrats EM2. Make sure you and your parents attend the spring open house. Thats what made the decision easy for DS.

    A reserve Colonel or E9 cant possibly equate with an active duty member. Not having worked on a higher headquarters staff other than ang. Not having moved and experienced different missions severly limits the experiences most reservists gain through a reserve career. Like it or not Line in the Sand is absolutely correct. It isnt a cut on the resserves. I was a reservist during breaks in active service in both the army and the air force. I have seen both sides of the coin. Reservists play an important role in our nations defence. But the service chiefs and Combatant commanders also have to consider a reservists limitations when making decision.

    Ill hold back on my opinion of discipline in the reserves and guard.
     
  19. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    It absolutely is a cut on the reserves and it shows a severe bias that frankly would hurt the integration of reserve members into an organization should they be called up. Realize what the initial statement was about. That a Reservist writing "USN" instead of "USNR" is somehow offensive to active duty. There cannot be much more of an exclusionary statement. We are talking the Navy after all, not the USCG, USA or USAF. The Navy Reserve is almost entirely an augmentation force with very few stand alone units so integration is critical to a wartime effort. If you really think a reservist can't integrate into a major staff and do real work all throughout the year without being called up, then I suppose you're still training for the Fulda Gap too. I've seen it plenty and done it plenty myself at MSC and JFCOM. ... it doesn't get much more major than that. It happens every day at every major staff from 1 star to 4 star, USN and Joint.

    Lets just brand them all with a big R on their foreheads and be done with it.

    EM2 ... Congratulations! Sorry to hijack your thread but they really hit my pet peeve.
     
  20. kpparent

    kpparent Member

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    The Class of 1967 graduated six months early to man the ships during Vietnam
     

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