A lot of people who went this route tell me that face time with pilots is big because they are the hiring managers.
Navy? A better choice for fighters than AF?
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Pima
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The problem is the Guard units will start converting until 2020...if they stay on target. You might now have an age issue sitting in front of you. The first hires that are going to come on board will probably be those that are currently being told they are converting over into the 35 or in the program now and when they hit that 8 year +1 day marker they have the right to push the button to leave at 9 years. That means even if they do just one tour in the 35 they are going to be more competitive than you even if you are working within the unit.
~ For you it would mean at least 2 years before you would be back in the unit.
~ For even a pilot leaving the 15, 16 or 10 it would only mean a B course. I don't know how long the 35 B course is, but if you look at the F15E that course is only 3 months compared to @9 months for the FTU course.
If they really don't start hiring new guys until 2023, and only 1 per year. You will be looking at needing to be hired within the first two of their boards to make the age limitation for UPT.
Also what happened to your idea of being an astronaut? You are going to want to go TPS, and the Guard has no reason to send you there.
I get you intend to get a multi engine license, but how are you going to afford to do that if you are on enlisted pay and repaying college? Also, where are you going to find the time to accrue all of those hours? Have you investigated how expensive it is to get a PPL? Most flight schools charge about 200 an hour just for Cessna's. It typically costs about 5k for a PPL. If you are going to go to college, than when are you going to find the time to fly to get your PPL?
~ Is it doable? Yes, many cadets do have PPLs. Just saying that is a lot of juggling time and money for no higher chance impo to get a 35 than the AFROTC cadet in your year group. Actually, they may have a higher chance because they will have the networking aspect when they leave with the AF picking up the training bill.
Nobody is psychic here. The class of 13 and 14 did not see HQ AFROTC releasing them, what if that happens again in 2020? They will be your competition.
~ For you it would mean at least 2 years before you would be back in the unit.
~ For even a pilot leaving the 15, 16 or 10 it would only mean a B course. I don't know how long the 35 B course is, but if you look at the F15E that course is only 3 months compared to @9 months for the FTU course.
If they really don't start hiring new guys until 2023, and only 1 per year. You will be looking at needing to be hired within the first two of their boards to make the age limitation for UPT.
Also what happened to your idea of being an astronaut? You are going to want to go TPS, and the Guard has no reason to send you there.
I get you intend to get a multi engine license, but how are you going to afford to do that if you are on enlisted pay and repaying college? Also, where are you going to find the time to accrue all of those hours? Have you investigated how expensive it is to get a PPL? Most flight schools charge about 200 an hour just for Cessna's. It typically costs about 5k for a PPL. If you are going to go to college, than when are you going to find the time to fly to get your PPL?
~ Is it doable? Yes, many cadets do have PPLs. Just saying that is a lot of juggling time and money for no higher chance impo to get a 35 than the AFROTC cadet in your year group. Actually, they may have a higher chance because they will have the networking aspect when they leave with the AF picking up the training bill.
Nobody is psychic here. The class of 13 and 14 did not see HQ AFROTC releasing them, what if that happens again in 2020? They will be your competition.
Bullet
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Hey folks. Haven't been on in a while, mostly because I'm busy, secondly because most of the topics are pretty well covered by others without me having to chime in. But I still "lurk", and based on the head-ache this thread has given me (and others as well), I figured it might be time to chime in. I'll try to be gentle....
Flyguy96, I get it. It's your DREAM to strap into an ejection seat, light the fires, and slip the surly bonds in an awesome machine of power and destruction that is an AF or Navy fighter jet. Perhaps then get to become a test pilot, so you can get to fly (and only fly) the latest and greatest new fighters. Then, on the weekend or in perhaps your second career, fly for the airline. NO ONE has the level of desire you do to achieve this dream. And you want to find the easiest way to get this dream (oh those pesky requirements like a DEGREE, and COMPETING with others for the opportunity, when it's obvious you DESERVE it over them because you DESIRE it more).
NEWS FLASH -- you're in line with literally THOUSANDS of kids your age with the same exact dream. THOUSANDS. That being said, here is the "easiest" path to your dream -- learn the steps to get you there (we'll gladly help you with those), work HARDER than those other thousands to do BETTER than them (a LOT easier said than done), then PRAY. Yep, pray. because a large portion (as has been said before) of getting to fly a fighter also has a lot to deal with luck and timing. Two of these things (working harder and being better) are entirely up to you, the other one is entirely out of your hands. So, have a back up plan in case you're given something other than that fast jet at drop night (if you get that far).
Now, some further advice: either accept that this dream isn't going to be easy, or find another dream. Enlisting in a Guard Unit so you can "have face time with the pilots" so they'll give you a pilot slot? It just doesn't work that way. The slots are few and far in between, and the Guard Unit is looking for what you can give THEM over what they can give YOU. They'll simply look at the DOZENS of other kids coming in off the streets who already have the aero degree, the multi-engine rating, and the recommendation from a previous commander from that unit because their parent flew with him and select him / her because they are MORE COMPETITIVE than you. Can the "enlist in ANG, get them to fall in love with me, and have them hire me for one of their pilot slots" path be done? Sure. You have an equal chance to hit the lottery, or be struck by lightning while being bitten by a shark.
So, here my final recommendation... Be REALISTIC. Neither the AF nor the Navy is just going to give you a fighter because you want it more than the other guy. Work for it. PROVE it to them that you do in fact deserve it. Hint: taking the "easiest path" demonstrates the exact opposite, and more importantly, has the LOWEST CHANCE of succeeding in that path. Now, do you HAVE to get an engineering degree to get to pilot training or fly fighters? Frankly, no. But a non-technical degree means you MUST have a high GPA just to ensure you get over one of the first hurdles -- being selected for continuation in the Commissioning path and getting a rated slot. And getting a test-pilot slot without a technical degree? Not gonna happen (and the whole "I 'll get one later in my career" ain't gonna happen either.)
So, why the whole "Bullet is relieving himself in my toasted oats breakfast food" post? Simple. Because we see it every year -- the "Will this nice and easy path I've concocted get me to my dream of flying fighters?" thread. And the answer is always the same -- it's gonna be a hard road, and your chance of success is small. Frankly, the best chance is to go to one of the service academies, next would be ROTC, then OTS, and the lowest probability would be to enlist. Botton Line: stop looking for the "easy way to do this" because there isn't one, and if there was there would be a heck of a lot more fighter pilots than there are...
Oh, and in regards to your original question -- Navy or AF to get a fighter? It's about the same statistically. So make your choice based on what branch you would rather serve in than which gives you a better chance.....
Flyguy96, I get it. It's your DREAM to strap into an ejection seat, light the fires, and slip the surly bonds in an awesome machine of power and destruction that is an AF or Navy fighter jet. Perhaps then get to become a test pilot, so you can get to fly (and only fly) the latest and greatest new fighters. Then, on the weekend or in perhaps your second career, fly for the airline. NO ONE has the level of desire you do to achieve this dream. And you want to find the easiest way to get this dream (oh those pesky requirements like a DEGREE, and COMPETING with others for the opportunity, when it's obvious you DESERVE it over them because you DESIRE it more).
NEWS FLASH -- you're in line with literally THOUSANDS of kids your age with the same exact dream. THOUSANDS. That being said, here is the "easiest" path to your dream -- learn the steps to get you there (we'll gladly help you with those), work HARDER than those other thousands to do BETTER than them (a LOT easier said than done), then PRAY. Yep, pray. because a large portion (as has been said before) of getting to fly a fighter also has a lot to deal with luck and timing. Two of these things (working harder and being better) are entirely up to you, the other one is entirely out of your hands. So, have a back up plan in case you're given something other than that fast jet at drop night (if you get that far).
Now, some further advice: either accept that this dream isn't going to be easy, or find another dream. Enlisting in a Guard Unit so you can "have face time with the pilots" so they'll give you a pilot slot? It just doesn't work that way. The slots are few and far in between, and the Guard Unit is looking for what you can give THEM over what they can give YOU. They'll simply look at the DOZENS of other kids coming in off the streets who already have the aero degree, the multi-engine rating, and the recommendation from a previous commander from that unit because their parent flew with him and select him / her because they are MORE COMPETITIVE than you. Can the "enlist in ANG, get them to fall in love with me, and have them hire me for one of their pilot slots" path be done? Sure. You have an equal chance to hit the lottery, or be struck by lightning while being bitten by a shark.
So, here my final recommendation... Be REALISTIC. Neither the AF nor the Navy is just going to give you a fighter because you want it more than the other guy. Work for it. PROVE it to them that you do in fact deserve it. Hint: taking the "easiest path" demonstrates the exact opposite, and more importantly, has the LOWEST CHANCE of succeeding in that path. Now, do you HAVE to get an engineering degree to get to pilot training or fly fighters? Frankly, no. But a non-technical degree means you MUST have a high GPA just to ensure you get over one of the first hurdles -- being selected for continuation in the Commissioning path and getting a rated slot. And getting a test-pilot slot without a technical degree? Not gonna happen (and the whole "I 'll get one later in my career" ain't gonna happen either.)
So, why the whole "Bullet is relieving himself in my toasted oats breakfast food" post? Simple. Because we see it every year -- the "Will this nice and easy path I've concocted get me to my dream of flying fighters?" thread. And the answer is always the same -- it's gonna be a hard road, and your chance of success is small. Frankly, the best chance is to go to one of the service academies, next would be ROTC, then OTS, and the lowest probability would be to enlist. Botton Line: stop looking for the "easy way to do this" because there isn't one, and if there was there would be a heck of a lot more fighter pilots than there are...
Oh, and in regards to your original question -- Navy or AF to get a fighter? It's about the same statistically. So make your choice based on what branch you would rather serve in than which gives you a better chance.....
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Hahaha, and the 3rd largest branch....
Pima
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Hhaha Very true!
I was just saying in the fighter community you can basically play the game 6 degrees, but using airframes instead of Kevin bacon! Heck you probably can play the game using the children that were in the fighter community and now fly. Our DS has 6 friends that he grew up with at various times and different bases. They all are in different air frames, so in years to come if you add in his AFROTC friends that went rated out of college and his UPT friends, the world starts getting really small.
There is always a running joke in the AF? It is stages. Did you hear who separated? (20-30) Did you hear who got promoted to...? (30s) Did you hear who retired? (30-40s) Did you hear who's kid is now in the AF? (40-50). If the name doesn't ring a bell than you land up playing the game of 6 degrees....it usually starts with sure, you remember them, they were in XX squadron during so and sos command. However, for fighters it usually just asking what is their call sign. You go to the game if their call sign is Chewie. There are just too many Chewies in the fighter community! I think it is a prereq for every squadron to have one guy named Chewie!
Hence, for the OP that was my point regarding how tight networking is in the AF flying community.
~ Our friend retired in 01. He is a left seated for SWA and on the hiring committee. The first thing he said to our DS when he winged was SWA will have a job for you in 9 years. Even now he still is contacted from people that he flew with years ago. Now, they are calling for a reference/interview for their kids leaving the AF and wanting to be bus drivers in the sky.
~ Another friend did Palace Chase back in the late 90s and got hired on by the Guard because another pilot flew with the guy at the unit and put in a good word for him. That guy became a weekend warrior and went onto fly with Continental, and he than became the go to guy for an IN with the airlines.
I was just saying in the fighter community you can basically play the game 6 degrees, but using airframes instead of Kevin bacon! Heck you probably can play the game using the children that were in the fighter community and now fly. Our DS has 6 friends that he grew up with at various times and different bases. They all are in different air frames, so in years to come if you add in his AFROTC friends that went rated out of college and his UPT friends, the world starts getting really small.
There is always a running joke in the AF? It is stages. Did you hear who separated? (20-30) Did you hear who got promoted to...? (30s) Did you hear who retired? (30-40s) Did you hear who's kid is now in the AF? (40-50). If the name doesn't ring a bell than you land up playing the game of 6 degrees....it usually starts with sure, you remember them, they were in XX squadron during so and sos command. However, for fighters it usually just asking what is their call sign. You go to the game if their call sign is Chewie. There are just too many Chewies in the fighter community! I think it is a prereq for every squadron to have one guy named Chewie!
Hence, for the OP that was my point regarding how tight networking is in the AF flying community.
~ Our friend retired in 01. He is a left seated for SWA and on the hiring committee. The first thing he said to our DS when he winged was SWA will have a job for you in 9 years. Even now he still is contacted from people that he flew with years ago. Now, they are calling for a reference/interview for their kids leaving the AF and wanting to be bus drivers in the sky.
~ Another friend did Palace Chase back in the late 90s and got hired on by the Guard because another pilot flew with the guy at the unit and put in a good word for him. That guy became a weekend warrior and went onto fly with Continental, and he than became the go to guy for an IN with the airlines.
Ok. I guess I should find another way of becoming an astronaut. I've always dreamed of flying fighters but this path looks too unrealistic. I am not a quitter or lazy at all. It's just that I have been through some things in life and school and I can't work through intense competition and stress of trying to predict things with this. I feel like I can't work that hard because of how stressful it is. I've even looked into the marine corps PLC program. They guarantee flight slots, but the chance of flying helos instead of fighters is almost crtain because the marines are mostly all rotary wing.Correct me if I'm wrong, but It seems like trying to come an astronaut is more realistic than becoming a fighter pilot. I could go the helo route and go to the naval TPS, and try for astronaut that way, but I'm not sure if being a rotary wing pilot will be as valuable to any space companies like NASA or space x as a fixed wing pilot would. I know my dreams are high, but I stress out less and lose less brain cells predicting the path to become an astronaut than a fighter pilot.
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I was going to try to transition from the guard to active duty if possible. Then I would try to go to TPS.
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You need to learn how to deal with stress. Even if you find a stress free path to astronaut or pilot (and I for one don't think you will) then you will certainly be facing high stress in those occupations, even if it's only during training.
I will have a college grant so I won't have to repay anything when I graduate college. This is one of the reasons why I wanted to go military first to save a lot of time and money. If this plan doesn't work out, I will go on to one of the space industries, such as virgin galactic, nasa, or space x to become an aerospace engineer. I was once told that Scaled composite's aerospace engineers who have pilot licenses and ratings often go up to the national test pilot school and becoming test pilots for scaled composites.
I can deal with stress. It's just that this career path is frustrating in that there are many things that can go the wrong way.
Pima
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Flyguy,
Jmpo, but I think you are not getting it.
The thousands of kids your age aren't going to let posters stray them away from their dream just based on their opinions or anecdotes. They are gong to buckle down and prove all of them wrong!
Read raimius blog please! I bet that Jcleppe, Navyhoops, fencer and myself (Bullet is my DH, so include him too) will tell you that UPT for any branch is not roses and candy. All of the students have had bad flights with downgrades, or even busts, and the IPs telling them they are the worst student ever.
The secret of their success? Is they dusted themselves off, and kept fighting, no matter what! They didn't quit. If you think that UPT is going to be a cake walk and you won't have a very bad flight, you are not being realistic.
You say you are not a quitter or lazy, but you appear to be doing exactly that before even getting in the game.
~ If my child was a Marine, your last post would have offended me greatly.
~~ It reads like this....Okay my AF/Navy dream is unrealistic, so I I'll go Marines.
~~~ Have you researched PLC? Kinnem can give you insight, but I am thinking from my limited knowledge the reason they have aviation slots is due to the attrition rate from the PLC program. IOWS, that hurdle might be harder than AFROTC.
Oh, and just like the AF, you can commission, but at UPT they only care about your skills...nothing else. They are not going to hand over any airframe if you don't make the cut from a flying standard. I highly doubt the Marines have a 100% winging rate. If they are like the AF, and wash you out they have the right to send you to a desk.
Finally, why would the Guard release you and why would ADAF take you for TPS? Think about it. They will have enough ADAF pilots to fill the very small amount of slots without taking from the Guard.
Jmpo, but I think you are not getting it.
The thousands of kids your age aren't going to let posters stray them away from their dream just based on their opinions or anecdotes. They are gong to buckle down and prove all of them wrong!
Read raimius blog please! I bet that Jcleppe, Navyhoops, fencer and myself (Bullet is my DH, so include him too) will tell you that UPT for any branch is not roses and candy. All of the students have had bad flights with downgrades, or even busts, and the IPs telling them they are the worst student ever.
The secret of their success? Is they dusted themselves off, and kept fighting, no matter what! They didn't quit. If you think that UPT is going to be a cake walk and you won't have a very bad flight, you are not being realistic.
You say you are not a quitter or lazy, but you appear to be doing exactly that before even getting in the game.
~ If my child was a Marine, your last post would have offended me greatly.
~~ It reads like this....Okay my AF/Navy dream is unrealistic, so I I'll go Marines.
~~~ Have you researched PLC? Kinnem can give you insight, but I am thinking from my limited knowledge the reason they have aviation slots is due to the attrition rate from the PLC program. IOWS, that hurdle might be harder than AFROTC.
Oh, and just like the AF, you can commission, but at UPT they only care about your skills...nothing else. They are not going to hand over any airframe if you don't make the cut from a flying standard. I highly doubt the Marines have a 100% winging rate. If they are like the AF, and wash you out they have the right to send you to a desk.
Finally, why would the Guard release you and why would ADAF take you for TPS? Think about it. They will have enough ADAF pilots to fill the very small amount of slots without taking from the Guard.
I can deal with stress. This career path I just frustrating. There are too many variables to worry about throughout college and after. Field training, UPT, commander's ranking, etc. I can' even predict how many fighters, if any, will even drop by the time I graduate UPT.
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To add to Pima's post, failure, at least in the Marine Corps, is part of the training. I'm highly confident it is in the other services as well. One of the quotes about USMC OCS I like best is: "The very best at home may be just good enough to make it here. You will fail. You will succeed. How you handle success and failure is a testament as to whether you have the necessary character to command Marines" (or something along those lines anyway). BTW, I'm sure one of the reasons they make sure that you fail is so you learn how to get up, dust yourself off, and get back in the fight.
Pima
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You have a college grant, but I am assuming that this is not tied to your degree, but something else, otherwise you won't say Russian language or Aero.
~ Guessing you will use disposable income to pay for all of those flight hours instead. Not being antagonistic just saying you still need to bump out the PPL, pay for the FC1 physical, than pay for the multi engine hours.
Now the next part. Virgin Galactic, NASA, etc. How much research have you done on employment opportunities as straight out of college?
~ Asked your stats before with no response, but here goes again? What are your stats? What college are you going to attend this fall? MIT, Co School of Mines, Cal Poly, etc? What tier school?
~ Like Bullet said there will be thousands in the engineering field that will also want to be hired by companies like the ones you listed. Difference is for AF it is thousands that want to fly, for those companies it will probably be tens of thousands.
~~ Think every Computer major student and Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.
Thanks but Iit just seems too risky. If I go ROTC, I may not it into field training, or I could get RPA's out of UPT. If I go Guard, I am really up against AD fighter pilots and airline pilots. I don't think any of you are changing my dream, I believe you are telling me the facts and the reality of it. I'm glad I came here to ask these questions and got tons of valuable help from you guys. If I hadn't, I would have probably went down the wrong road.
Pima
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Bow to you kinnem.
I plan to go to Va Tech University. I' hoping to go into NASA as an aerospace engineer first. Ii know tons of people will want to go into the same field too, but I wouldn't have to worry about being committed to doing something I don't enjoy. In ROTC, I could be committed to serve in RPA in which I wouldn't benefit at all, therefore hindering my goals afterwrd. I wouldn't risk anything just applying to NASA.
Pima
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Honestly, I knew 24 hours ago that nothing anyone said here would change your opinion. I posted yesterday #36 that I thought you made your decision.
I continued to post, not for you, but other posters and lurkers that might think like you.
I wish you the best success and wherever your path leads you, that you will be happy and no regrets.
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