Navy more liberal?

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by www, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. www

    www Member

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    Somewhere I heard that the Navy is more liberal than the Army as well as other branches. Clarifications? Comments?
     
  2. Roman

    Roman Member

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    Princeton Review, Most Conservative Students (in the United States)

    #6 USNA
    #10 USMMA
    #11 USAFA
    #17 USMA

    These stats are really useless beyond the fact that the service academies are conservative schools, but it may be interesting that USNA is #1 and USMA is last out of the service academies.
     
  3. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    As a service or as an academy?

    I don't think anyone can give you a good answer. Each unit will vary, and very few have much experience across the services.

    It also depends on what you consider to be "liberal"...
     
  4. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Your list seems.....incomplete. :rolleyes:

    Let me fix it for you, as there are five service academies, not four.

    #6 USNA
    #10 USMMA
    #11 USAFA
    #17 USMA
    #20 USCGA
     
  5. www

    www Member

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    You opinion regarding the services?
     
  6. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I don't think that the members of any one branch of the military are, collectively, more politically left or right than members of the other branches. From my experience, most military folks tend to skew to the right, but it most certainly doesn't mean that everyone in the service feels a certain way, or that, for example the USAF is more liberal than the USCG on a whole. I don't think there is any real way to categorize the level of "liberalness" or "conservativeness" for an individual branch as compared to another.

    I was USAF and graduated from VMI. Most of the guys on active duty and certainly the majority at VMI were pretty right of center. I, however, am a leftie pinko, and managed to survive. Granted, there were only one or two of us at the Socialist Workers Party Meeting, but the barbeque was nice:yllol: The facisits, though...oh boy could those guys get a crowd!!! Kidding, of course....:biggrin:
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think as far as service is concerned most military members skew right. The reason for this attitude is simple...MONEY!

    The right has always been more hawkish and military members feel that in their everyday life.

    Currently, Pelosi would like the DOD budget cut. How will she accomplish it? Let's say she leaves the op numbers the same because of the wars, that means it comes from other areas. These areas would be all from the benefits side which include housing, medical, even daycare. Now imagine being a service member living on base in a house with lead paint. The military can't afford to renovate the home, so you must sign a waiver saying you accept the house knowing there is lead paint. You have a 2 yo at home, don't you think they become angry that they were placed into the situation that for financial reasons they need to live on base, but at the same time as they are willing to die for the country, their family is at risk? Maybe it means that the on base/post hospital will now refer out pregnant spouses because they close OBGYN. Referring them out means they must utilize tri-care for all medical reasons...she breaks her arm and they must pay $$$, if the base hospital took her it would have been free. Maybe it means that they change the per diem for TDY/PCS...they force you to move across country and you have to shell out the bucks to stay in a hotel because it is more than they are paying. I can tell you from experience, the per diem never comes under what you spend, and that means staying with 3 kids in a 1 room at Days Inn. Why do you think so many of the SMART members buy RVs...it is so they can DITY and not stay in a room that you wonder what have you done?

    The military is no different than the "real world", when you are told to make due with less your attitude will change. If the news media is saying that the dems are the ones that want your pay reduced and the repubs are against it, who will you support? It's all about the $$$. Old craniums still remember back in 96 when the republicans were in charge under Clinton that they got very nice pay increases for several yrs. Republican controlled congress also changed the retirement scale back.

    Many military members that retire go contractor world. It takes 1 yr to retire as an officer, during that time the military member is interviewing with companies like Lockheed, Grumman, Rand, Raytheon, Booze-Allen, SAIC, etc. They don't hire because this administration converts the jobs from contractor to govt (lower pay) comes back and bites the dem party...$$$. They tell all of their co-workers of their issues and it trickles down with resentment to the dems. Fear goes a long way in how you view a party.

    For people who have been active duty in the past several yrs, they can tell you of how benefits changed under dems and under republicans. Not speaking Presidents, just MOCs.

    The other thing that hurt the dems, IMHO was the adage I support the soldier, but not the war. There are many soldiers who cannot differentiate the 2 ideas, because as a soldier they must follow their orders and it appears to them that by following the order they are not being supported. It is an IMAGE conundrum.

    Finally, as an Independent who leans right...this administration ticked me off last week with the remark that Obama's administration is winning the war in Iraq. Really? Wasn't it the SURGE that changed the success of the war? Did Obama vote for the surge? Has our president come out and verbally stated the surge worked? Was it not Hillary Clinton who had the famous remark of "Suspension of disbelief" when addressing Petraeus or as the left called him Betray-Us? How about our Veep? Pelosi? Reid? Not to be antagonistic, but somebody explain how it was this administration who voted against the surge claim that they are winning the war without giving Bush the credit for the surge? Just have to ask how the dems can defend the claim with a straight face.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  8. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    IMO - Officers tend to skew right while Enlisted tend to skew left.
    Former enlisted who move on to professional careers tend to skew left.
    Retired officers skew right, while officers who resign their commission often skew left.

    just some generalizations - nothing written in stone. Look at members of congress who are veterans though - the Democrats were mostly former enlisted or officers who didn't serve until retirement.

    You could be right about the Navy. The Army attracts a lot of folks from the south which is socially conservative. They love their guns!
    The Navy is mostly coastal and attracts a lot of people from both coasts - which tend to be more liberal.
    The AF..... they want a family and career so they are probably more socially conservative than a guy who is willing to spend 10 years at sea.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree and disagree.

    I think military members that retire skew right regardless of their rank. Military members who resign or leave skew left regardless of their rank.

    I say this because it does go back to the fact that 15 yrs of service under both parties gives you a more cognizant view of how the money flows. Members in for 5-8 yrs are short timers and do not have the ability to see how it really affects you from a political standpoint.

    Example: A member who joins in June of 05. 06 Dems took control of the house, but had a Repub President. This caused status quo. 08 military gets both Pres and MOCs, but the 1st budget that they get to work on is 09. In our economic conditions the military was not touched, but it will be in 10. The enlisted member and the newly minted officer in 06 would see no difference before they leave in 11. Additionally, retirement pay and VA benefits mean nothing since it does not apply to them. They did their 5 and out!

    Now take the military member who joined in 93. In 95 most military members saw that their pay jumped an incredible amount, for some it was 10%+ for 3 yrs. because the republicans passed the bill to have military pay increases tied to inflation. Now they have "locked" themselves into retiring as a military member because they have 17 yrs in...what do they see down the pipeline for them? Others saying because DOD cut costs, they will have to carry Tri-Care since the VA is no longer accepting new retirees in most places. They have children needing braces, but Concordia is now not accepted at every orthodontist to save costs, AND not paying for retirees. They see that when they moved into their 1st base house back in 96 that they could go to the self help shop for things like smoke detectors are gone, and that they are charged monthly for a fence when it comes to their on base house. These are all things that have come about to cut the DOD budget.

    I do agree that the people who are not life timers skew left, but I disagree that the life timers skew one way or the other due to rank. If they skew left they are not the norm...it has been reported every election cycle of % for military votes, 70%+ go right.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  10. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Pima - I admit, I didn't think of those codgy old E-8's. You could be on to something.

    I do think that of the younger folks on AD - say those under 30; officers skew right more than enlisted. Enlisted who stay in either become more conservative or they stayed in because they were conservative to begin with. I think more junior officers are conservative than liberal but I am not sure they change their views much regardless if they retire or not.
    I do think that alot of people swing to the right or left as they go through life - even if they aren't military. People who are young left idealists - come to reason and move to the middle; those who are staunch, conservatives find they have a heart after all and move a litte to the left. I often worry about kids who are under 25 and claim to be a Republican! (My own included! :wink:)
    My dad (retired AF officer) is approaching 80 and has gotten more liberal in his old age - if he lives long enough he might actually vote for a Democrat!

    Prior enlisted who were liberal and stay liberal often use that to their own political advantage. Many enlisted Combat Veterans are Democrats and quite liberal. So, maybe one's own personal military experience is a factor as well.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    JAM,

    Again I agree and disagree.

    I met Bullet when I was 18 yo. I was a staunch Dem..Miltary causes wars, abortion should be allowed, we should pay higher taxes to support welfare. That was 1983. Married in 88. By 91 when Bullet was sent to war and we got a 1% pay raise while the MOCs gave themselves a 50%, I started to change my opinion. As time went by and we wrote checks to the IRS while Bullet was deployed more and our pay was buying less. I became more resentful that our children living in base housing with lead paint could lose their father fighting for our country while welfare recipients got housing without lead paint due to federal regulations.

    Our 1st 2 children were born in military hospitals, our 3rd was born off base. Why? Dems had control and they cut the DOD budget, which meant I was forced to go off base...positive, I got an epidural, negative I lived for 7 1/2 mos in fear that if I got sick or hurt myself we had to pay the deductible. 20%, with 2 kids under 4, pre-school, mtg, car pmts would have killed us fiscally.

    Your DD is military and you are lucky she is a she...if she was a he and got married like ours would be looking at the fact that they could pay out of pocket.

    My opinion changed not because of values, but because in the end of the day the democratic party asked my family to choose between them and our checkbook. Republicans traditionally get that the military checkbook has little wiggle room...in other words they understand the meaning HOT CHECK FRIDAY.

    I do agree officers under 30 skew right because the newest, hottest piece of military equipment is the "CARROT". I.E. AF cadets are not thrilled with the prospect that the 22 pipeline is closed for all intentional purposes! They should blame both parties, but it is a dem MOC and a Dem President, so the dems will take the hit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2010
  12. agolson

    agolson Eagle43

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    What is 22 pipeline?
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    A pilot slot for the F-22.
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Majority of senior enlisted I've worked with seem to be conservative. Fortunately politics doesn't come up much outside of my peer group. Members of the military may lean right, but the military is a-political.
     
  15. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    All officers should be aware of UCMJ Article 88 too...sadly, I've had to take one of my officers to the woodshed with this one.

    “Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

    Openly from what I've seen, MOST military members are a-political. Privately...that's their business.

    My one officer made it public and then it became my business...and others above me.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  16. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Now.....what if that military officer is a reservist....running for office?

    Scott Brown comes to mind, but I know others as well....
     
  17. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    That's where the JAG would come into the picture.

    But a reservist still holds a commission...and while they may say "I'm not in Title 10 orders so it doesn't matter...I've been told by JAG's that isn't really the case..."

    But I'm NOT a JAG so I don't know for sure.

    In MY officer's case; we are reservists...we were at a UTA and he was a bit TOO vocal in the presence of WAY too many people.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  18. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Sorry, but it's a sad fact that liberals infest all the armed services, with pretty much the same results as their infestation of society in general.

    Do what YOU want to do. Liberals control enough of your life as it is; don't give them any more power over you by allowing them to affect your decisions on where to serve.
     
  19. DMeix

    DMeix Retired Staff Member

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    Z...looking for your posts is honestly the only reason I ever come back here nowadays...keep on truckin', sir
     
  20. piper

    piper Member

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    they draw from different populations

    Somewhere I read it was because that army and air force are more southern, navy is more east coast
     

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