Need advise!

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by goosekid136, Feb 21, 2012.

  1. goosekid136

    goosekid136 New Member

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    So, I was recently disenrolled from AFROTC and am required to serve 2 years instead of pay back the sum of almost $8,000 (which I would rather do). In addition, I will be graduating two semesters later than the contracted date.

    With the Air Force downsizing and going through budget cuts, do you think I could opt out of enlistment and request to pay back the Air Force? Or at least have them wait until my new graduation date?

    I need some advise. I call them and they keep telling me they would call me back but I have not heard anything.. I want to finish my degree before anything else.
     
  2. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    Have you signed the forms already?
     
  3. goosekid136

    goosekid136 New Member

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    Which forms are you speaking of? I signed the Form 16 but my Commander did not give me much options. He just came in this semester and has no care for anyone except for those going up for STO/CRO.
     
  4. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I think your contract is probably similar to the Army ROTC contract. In the Army they decide how you pay back your obligation. I think you are at their mercy.
     
  5. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    I can't imagine they would seek a two year enlistment for an $8000 debt since they are eliminating positions right and left in the Air Force. Son was disenrolled for Navy ROTC last semester and they didn't give him an option because they were looking for recoupment of funds which was quite a bit larger in dollar amount.

    Have you spoken to a military attorney who handles disenrollment? If you want to pay it back, you may have the option. Sometimes you don't. You don't know if you don't ask. Nice people on this board advised us to retain counsel and this was a smart idea. I urge the same.
     
  6. goosekid136

    goosekid136 New Member

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    Not yet. I called the number to HQ AFPC/DPSOAA, but told me they would call me back. How would I go about speaking with an attorney or handling this matter in general?

    I really appreciate the comments everyone.
     
  7. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    We hired a military attorney for our kid's case after lots of looking up what the reprecussions of disenrollment. You need to consider your options and I suggest doing lots of research on the internet before this goes much further.

    Pima knows much more about Air Force ROTC. Have you seen her on this forum? She might have more suggestions for you.

    Also - I meant call someone in your unit above you in chain of command who could give you answers. Your disenrollment form probably looks a lot different than my kids form, so I don't know which form you are referring to. There are usually several pieces of paper you sign and before you sign another one, you should probably consult an attorney to find out your options.

    Did they specify a reason for disenrollment? If you don't want to list publicly, I understand. You can always PM me.
     
  8. goosekid136

    goosekid136 New Member

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    Oh everything went through and I spoke to my commander and COC. This was the final judgement from HQ. I was just wondering if there would be a way for me to repay the money or at least delay my active duty date a year so I can graduate from my university.

    As far as talking to someone in my chain, I no longer have a chain of command (not that they were much of a help anyways).

    The reason for my disenrollment was due to missing one PT session causing me to fail the training course. The previous commander would allow make-ups under certain conditions and I was scheduled one but cancelled later on. I felt as though I should take full responsibility for the absence even if I did not have much sleep the night before or if I was feeling sick. This is why I did not contest the investigation.

    To be honest, the military wasn't for me and I realized that late in the game. I was a navigator select and expect 12 years in the force. I'd rather finish my degree in business and payoff all that was owed.

    I hope this explains my situation a little more.
     
  9. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    How recently were you disenrolled? When you say this is the final judgement from headquarters, did you get paperwork that said that? Did it give you options for appeal? I feel like I am still missing some information here - sorry that I am not as familiar with AF stuff.

    Perhaps the process is completely different in Air Force ROTC, but there are several steps and different pieces of paperwork that must be completed and returned to unit, and then onto Command at Navy HQ. It can take months before HQ responds with a final answer.

    Does you paperwork have any information that says when you must report for duty?

    Seriously, you need to talk to Pima.
     
  10. goosekid136

    goosekid136 New Member

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    Yeah those were the orders from HQ. My investigation was last Dec and I was disenrolled last week. I don't want to appeal to remain in the program. I just want to pay the Air Force instead of enlisting.

    I have a friend who was disenrolled for grades last year and she said that they were pretty forgiving and willing to accept the money or extend the DOG. I just wanted to make sure to ease my mind.

    I am worried they won't let me extend my DOG and pull me out of the university.

    and I'll try looking for PIMA lol
     
  11. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    You don't have to appeal to remain in the program. You may just want to appeal the enlistment part. That's where a lawyer might come in handy.

    Often it is up to the service branch command, and if you really want to stay in school and pay it back, then that may be an option - but you need to handle it the right way.

    I sent Pima a message about your thread.
     
  12. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    If you have 2 or more years to go after this term is over, I would doubt they will give you that long of a deferment to enlist. 1 year, perhaps.

    That being said, if you have to serve 2 years, you might want to go now and perhaps take a few units a term while you are enlisted (potentially with some financial assistance? - someone else help me here on military benefits under this condition) which will shorten your overall time to complete your degree. Plus, from a financial aid perspective, you will be considered independent from your parents (and unemployed) once you finish your enlistment and will be eligible for much better financial aid.

    Sorry to hear that the military career wasn't what you had in mind. You seem to have accepted things well. Now to make the best of what you have to deal with.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Goose,

    I pm'd you.

    Here's some things that I am stating as in generalization to lurkers and other cadets, not necessarily about goose's issue.

    1. OP wants to defer a yr to finish his education.
    ~~~ Problem: If he is a nav select he is a sr., and was expected to graduate this May. Rated boards occur spring JR yr. AFROTC just released last week the AFSC's for 2013. He was disenrolled in Dec., that means he according to the AF was expected to graduate before Oct 1, 2012.

    This will be an issue. The reason is simple. At this point, 1 semester prior to when the AF had him commissioning he disenrolls, and now is saying I won't graduate any earlier than a yr from now. In his post he is stating the disenrollment is due to a missed PFT, not academic issues.

    There will have to be a strong case to explain why since every cadre does semester reviews and the CoC knows their projected graduation date how all of the sudden he needs another yr.

    2. For clarification purposes only.

    Navs do not owe 12 yrs, heck pilots do not owe that much time. If I am correct it is 8 yrs, starting from winging. UNT takes about 1 yr, so it would be 9 yrs.

    3. The fallacy that they won't force enlistment due to the drawdown.

    The AF has already cut a lot and will have the smallest cut in personnel out of the sister services. Even as they cut, it is not as if they are not enlisting people at the same time. They just happen to be enlisting at a lower rate than previous yrs. This is a business. They have a choice between an 18 yo enlistment and a 22 with a college degree. Who would you select from a business perspective? Betting not the 18 yo.

    4. We see this all the time when candidates and posters say:
    I don't care what I do in the military, I just want to serve.

    An old adage, but true. Be careful for what you wish for! You can't now say, I meant to say as long as I am an officer, in a career I want, and not committed to a term longer than I want.


    5. When they say JUMP you say HOW HIGH?

    The OP in his post said some illuminating facts. He knew he missed the PFT. As a C400 he knew there would be repercussions, but elected not to attend anyway.

    No offense to the OP, but again, he was a C400, and I am sure in 4 yrs he saw that when cadets show up ill or tired, they at least showed up. His heart and motivation to be in the AF was already gone. However, he forgot about that tiny little form he signed at the beginning of his C300 yr where in black and white he agreed to serve if he was booted.

    This is important to understand. Just because you know someone who walked, doesn't mean everyone walks. Maybe their major was something that they were trimming back to begin with, while your major is a highly demanded field. The people you know that were released or forgiven were before you, and under a different fiscal budget. Do not assume anything.


    For many ROTC branches, the problem is many of these cadets/mids get wrapped up in selecting a career they never wanted, but because it was highly competitive, they went for it. They lost their compass and got caught up in wearing a flight suit or being in that golden child career field.

    It is best for those accepting the scholarships right now to read his story. It is best to ask are you truly willing to serve in any branch, at any rank as long as you serve. Remember every yr there are those goose and gojira stories. If you can say, yes, I am willing to not be able to complete my degree and serve 2 yrs as enlisted on the flight line in FL on 100 degree days or AK in -30 degree days, sign. However, if the idea that you will spend yrs looking at them as an enlisted member, and saying to yourself as you salute them prior to take off, CRAP! The answer is clear. You don't want to truly serve in any manner, you have specific desires.

    There is nothing wrong about being honest and stating it upfront. There is something wrong if you are lieing to yourself.
     
  14. Jodie

    Jodie Member

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    Would this disenrolled student qualify for GI Bill benefits upon discharge? If so, I recommend doing the 2 years ASAP! The benefits and conditions of the GI Bill dwarfs any ROTC scholarship.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012

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