Never Thought I'd see the Day--Pagans at USAFA?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by falconchic88, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    176
  2. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    Why not?

    The DOD recognizes Wiccans as a religion and makes a specific Wiccan headstone available to deceased Veterans.
    This may shock some folks but Christians don't have a monopoly on service to their country.
     
  3. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    176
    You are correct, there is no monopoly on service to our country, and I never said there was. But, I still have a right to my opinions, just as others have a right to thier own religion. While I agree that this country was founded on religous freedoms (and I strongly support religious freedoms), as a USAFA graduate, and knowing the climate there, I was stating my opinion that I never thought I would see the day that USAFA would build an official Wiccan prayer circle. Never said there was anything wrong with it.

    (OH, and I know I spelled Pagan wrong above, but I hit enter before I realized it, and I can't edit the thread title-oops)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2010
  4. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,153
    Likes Received:
    113
    I think the OP is saying that in relation to the recent religious history of USAFA and the AF. Only a few years ago there was a huge uproar regarding religion being pushed on people.
     
  5. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    Former climate there.

    I believe the Christian evangelical scandal has been dealt with and there is no longer a hostile attitude toward non-Christians.
     
  6. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    176
    Exactly kp,
    My niece and nephew were both there during the uproar, and a good friend of mine was sent from the Pentagon to "investigate". Cadets and teachers were basically forced to remove any religious symbols visible to others (ie crosses on desk or in office cubical), because it was "intimidating". They seem to have done a 180, and are now bending over backwards to accomodate.
     
  7. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    176
    Which is the point of my OP!
     
  8. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,577
    Likes Received:
    799
    So just how many wiccans are there at AFA? I guess those basics who don't want to go to church on Sundays can go hang out at the prayer circle for an hour, right? Is there going to be an actual wiccan "minister" or "priest" or will it just be Earth-worship-on-your-own?
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    gotcha - I think it's actually pretty cool.
    It's good to see the AFA accomadating folks. I would not go so far as to say "bending over backwards".
    What the military needs to do is accomodate those who serve by making religious services available that are desired by the servicemen and women. Not the other way around. It's called customer service.


    fencersmother - Wiccan (the largest Neo-Pagan religion) is very self governing. Here is some information on Wicca: http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm
    You probably will find lots of ceremonial parallels between Paganism and modern day Christianity. Many Christian worship rites have Pagan roots.
     
  10. navy

    navy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Free Starbucks

    My wife was in Starbucks, and the clerk commented on my Navy Command at Sea Star which my wife wears as a pendant. The clerk said , "I know what that is, the coffee is on the house". My wife was suprised, as many people comment on her pendant , but few know what it actually represents. My wife thanked the clerk for supporting the military,and asked about her Navy background. The clerk was shocked, thought my wife was a fellow "Witch". :smile:
     
  11. Runningman2014

    Runningman2014 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Constitution more specifically the first amendment says “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” The Constitution provides freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
    Now I approve the Academy action of trying to meet the spiritual needs of all cadets. However, I do not approve of them making both cadets and officers remove their Crosses, Bible, and other religious items from view. This is not freedom of religion but freedom from it. I wouldn’t even be against this if it was garnered toward all religions (Christianity, Islam, Secular Humanism, Cosmic Humanism, Marxist-Leninism, Postmodernism). You can’t have any religious item in view. However, this is targeted only at Christian.
    Now, if a cadet or a teacher were to continual confront you about your beliefs and how you are living in sin and need to turn to your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ after you have said I don’t want to hear about it and I want to be left alone. Then it becomes something totally different matter. It becomes sort of harassment. However, You should be protected from harassment. However, this again can be applied to all religions. If I don’t want to hear about someone's religion and I ask them not talk to me about it then they should stop.
     
  12. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    So, I wonder what will happen when a group of military personnel; cadet or active duty; want a place where they can sacrifice live animals. Don't snicker; christian, judaism, and islam religions still practice this in many parts of the world.

    What about certain members of NAMBLA who have argued in court that their beliefs fall under the category of religion? Again, don't snicker. Even if the president rescinded the don't ask - don't tell policy, and made homosexuality legal and condoned in the military; would they then allow certain military men to have sex with young boys?

    I am not against freedom of religion. And hopefully, the Wicca addition is legitimate and not just some publicity stunt trying to make a point. But there is a fine line where religion affects other people. As long as people are able to worship and not affect others; including animals, children, or a host of other areas, all is good. But I don't know how far all this will go.
     
  13. Don

    Don Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    Calm down Christcorps. No one is saying some groups may break the law in the name of religion. Wicca certainly doesn't do that.

    As a matter of fact the DOD and VA both recognize Paganism and Wicca as a "legitimate religion" and have for a number of years. Decades actually.

    The US Army Chaplain's handbook has an excerpt on Wicca and many other military installations already accomadate Wiccan soldiers, sailors and airmen. Why should not the AFA as well?
    Other non Christian religions are accomadated as well including Judaism, Buddist, Islam.
    You may be unfamiliar with Wicca but it is becoming more mainstream.
    Educate thyself!
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    Why is it when someone says something you don't like or agree to, you talk down to them. Why don't YOU calm down? I thought we agreed that we wouldn't respond to each other's posts. And I'm very familiar with wicca, and I have nothing against them, so I don't need to educate myself. And had you read what I wrote; which you tend to not do, but rather add your own meaning; you would see that I didn't say anything negative about wicca. I made a general statement about how far the military would in trying to "appease" freedom of religion.
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    Don; I understand what you're saying. However, just because you don't consider a person "Christian" doesn't mean that they don't consider themselves Christian. And yes, there are christian sects that consider themselves christian, who do in fact sacrifice animals.
     
  17. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    NOT ADDRESSED TO CHRISTCORP!!!

    Folks - you all need to know that there is a process in the military. A servicemember just can't make up a religion - espeically one that involves illegal activity and expect an accomodation.
    The comments in post #12 really don't have anything to do with this thread. Wicca does not involve animal sacrifice or other illegal activity.
    This is NOT about the Air Force trying to "appease" freedom of religion. This is about military members being given the opportunity to worship. The same opportunity that those who belong to a more "mainstream" relgion have.
    The Government of the United States of which the US Air Force is a part, can't force or encourage the practice of one religion over another.
    It's quite remarkable how a few rocks in a clearing can get some folks cranked up. I wonder if anyone predicted the "slippery slope" caused by allowing the Chapel to be built.

    Don - you are quite correct.
     
  18. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    1
    Christcorp, Freedom of Religion does not allow you to commit crimes like pedophilia. And what does allowing gays to serve openly have to do with pedophilia?
     
  19. xTxMANx

    xTxMANx Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2008
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know this may not be an idea liked by a lot of people, but I believe that all personal thoughts, behaviors, and rituals should be suppressed, no matter how "normal" or minor it is. There are set standards and reasons we all want to go to the academy. Many people say "that is life, you must accept others beliefs" but if we we can't accept everyone's, I believe we should not allow any. Easy as that.
    Anything can be considered offensive or intimidating if you have ideals to the contrary. Personally, I view "swear" words as just very strong expressive adjectives and adverbs; but to those who follow their religious roots, they are dirty and condemning. Also a personal opinion, I do not support homosexuals. I will not suppress them to the underground, but i will only tolerate them to the point where it does not involve me in any way. Everyone does something that is not liked.
    If we can not stand to coexist, then we should do the only thing that is a group consensus: Do our job, be educated, and prepare to serve our country.
     
  20. Don

    Don Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Christcorp. You’re taking a lot of heat on this one. Thanks for sticking in there.

    I am very interested in your remark. It is the most exotic thing I’ve heard in awhile. Can you direct me to such “Quasi Christian” groups? I’m interested on a professional / academic level.

    What defines a Christian is pretty well established, there are some minor disputes but the VAST majority, and I mean VAST majority of Christian denominations are in agreement on the basic tenets, but that’s a different forum.

    I look forward to looking into such groups even if they are from other period in history.
     

Share This Page